Inquiry: Dachiu

[varnyard]

I don't know who told JimD that CheriS was giving that advice kill all the infected dragons, but Vickie is the one that told me.

Mike Shoemaker, who told you too?

 

[varnyard]

mikey, and Jim O, don't you think there is some very valid questions for Vickie's actions that need answers?

Cheri, is not the one that stands to gain on this.

 

[Jim O]

It is sad Jim, after all her statements that are backed up by facts you are defending her.

Chris Johnson, might need your help as well.

Where am I defending her or anyone else Bobby???? Show me my words. And show me facts. I don't mean Cheri's recall of some conversations (especially in light of her comments regarding Sandfire) but real hard facts. If you can't find it my words (and you won't) in whole posts (not snippets taken out of context) and facts, not your supposition, then back off. Trying to put your problems on me is only making yourself look like a bigger fool than what you have already made of yourself. Time to be a man, not a whining boy.

 

[puppytoes72]

The first time we sent samples in for testing from any of our own animals was the round that the posted results came from - March 16. We pulled these dragons when they hatched and set them up in the testing bins. We have never tested any of our adults, nor any of the animals we offer for sale.

JimO, I have an email from Lou Ann just today…

I will not be responding to the lies that CheriS has posted or any more of the nonsense. The time and effort it takes to gather and relay facts to people who simply don’t care to listen is too much. This has been going on in the forum for over 6 months - and I am exhausted. Florida will be releasing their summation shortly.

well considering that you found adeno in the bin you tested dont you think you SHOULD test your breeders??that bin obviously got adeno from somewhere right?i still say the honarable thing to do would be to remove that disclaimer.

 

[Jim O]

mikey, and Jim O, don't you think there is some very valid questions for Vickie's actions that need answers?

Asked and answered.

 

[puppytoes72]

this thread is not about sandfire,there is a seperate thread for that

 

[varnyard]

Asked and answered.

I would think you would act more like an adult jim, I thought you were a man.

Post the answers to all of the things she (Vickie) has done here Jim since she started breeding.

 

[Jim O]

this thread is not about sandfire,there is a seperate thread for that

Yes, you are right, but do you not think that Cheri's comments (and lack thereof) with respect to Sandfire, which is the sole reason they are brought into light in this thread, have a bearing on her impartiality in this issue? I have asked her to comment and have others but she has conveniently ignored those requests. If the most damining info with respect to Vickie is that Cheri told her to test in 2002 according to Cheri, is not her reliability to be questioned when she gives a much larger breeder a pass not only on adenovirus but many other problems as well?

 

[varnyard]

If thats the case Jim, we can also add Fire&Ice and Sunshine to this thread, can't we Vickie?

 

[mikey]

mikey, and Jim O, don't you think there is some very valid questions for Vickie's actions that need answers?

Cheri, is not the one that stands to gain on this.[/


QUOTE

Yes Jim O, CheriS is getting a bunch of old info on this even as we speak. She called me, I just got off the phone with her.

Just remember what happened last time with the phone calls. Don't get sucked in again, might just come back at ya.

 

[Jim O]

I would think you would act more like an adult jim, I thought you were a man.

Bobby, you asked me

mikey, and Jim O, don't you think there is some very valid questions for Vickie's actions that need answers?

That's a simple yes or no question. Look at your post number 136 in this thread and you will find that you already know the answer to that question. I'm not going to let you bait me into further argument on that issue as the answer is already there.

Post the answers to all of the things she (Vickie) has done here Jim since she started breeding.

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. No, Bobby, you do that. You seem to be the expert about this "killing virus". Seriously, see above.

 

[puppytoes72]

Yes, you are right, but do you not think that Cheri's comments (and lack thereof) with respect to Sandfire, which is the sole reason they are brought into light in this thread, have a bearing on her impartiality in this issue? I have asked her to comment and have others but she has conveniently ignored those requests. If the most damining info with respect to Vickie is that Cheri told her to test in 2002 according to Cheri, is not her reliability to be questioned when she gives a much larger breeder a pass not only on adenovirus but many other problems as well?

i dont think that is the most damning evidence against dachiu but it is worth alot.there are many things against dachiu right now.my main concern is their misleading disclaimer.anyhow,sandfire is a very delicate topic and very close to home with me considering jojo is positive and she came from sandfire.just because they are housed outside does not mean they cant bring a few inside and test them right?give cheri some time to answer that question,she already stated that she is having major problems with her computer.dachiu on the other hand has been dodging questions for 2 days now

 

[varnyard]

Jim, you have not proved any thing excet there are no answers from the one that needs them. Ask her how many times she used someone just like you and me?

As for Cheri attacking Vickie, go read, it is Vickie that runs after Cheri.

 

[varnyard]

One more thing Jim, I take it you have the facts saying it is not a killer?

 

[Dachiu]

We'd like to thank Tammy for posting the Adenovirus document from the University of Florida in the Bearded Dragon forum. Check it out - its a good read...

 

[varnyard]

dachiu on the other hand has been dodging questions for 2 days now

Bingo!!!! She is 100% great at that!!

 

[puppytoes72]

We'd like to thank Tammy for posting the Adenovirus document from the University of Florida in the Bearded Dragon forum. Check it out - its a good read...

ummm,vicky?wait,come back!dont you have some questions to answer?

 

[jsrocket]

We'd like to thank Tammy for posting the Adenovirus document from the University of Florida in the Bearded Dragon forum. Check it out - its a good read...

This is a great piece of info. Quite clear about a lot of things that people have been speculating about, as well as what is NOT known about AV in dragons.

 

[Jim O]

One more thing Jim, I take it you have the facts saying it is not a killer?

No, but the difference is that I didn't post in big red letters saying it is a "killing virus". I have consistently said that real scientific research is needed. Research that is prospective, peer reviewed, and can be critically analyzed by scientists and other specialists, as well as lay people. We don't have that information and sadly we may never. At this point we have a few reports but that is all they are, reports. When AIDS first came out there were many who claimed to "know" what it was and how to treat it. It took several years to isolate the virus(es) that cause it. I remember it well. I was in medical school in the early 1980's. We thought that we were at the beginning of an epidemic. It turns out that the virus that was eventually detected first (HIV-1) was present in frozen serum of people who had unusual syndromes dating back at least to the early 1960's and probably was present in Africa for a lot longer, perhaps centuries. Was medicine negligent for not finding it? I don't think so but hindsight is always 20-20. We really do not know where we are in this epizootic, if it is even one, and what is it's significance. Until then I will not be a party to lynching or crucifying anyone on this site.

All that having been said, I will reiterate what I have said earlier on this thread, including what you commented on in your post number 136.

• I don't know or understand the reason why the Dachius and Sandifre and others have chosen not to do more extensive (or any) testing. Since the question was posed to them directly, at least twice by Sammy, and likely by others, it deserves an answer. I said this in my post number 132 and you quoted and agreed with that very point in your post number 136.
• The website should have a better "disclaimer" regarding adenovirus. Something along the lines of what Wes Pollack suggested in his post number 127, with which I agree. Wes can confirm that I gave him positive Karma for that post much earlier today and I agreed with it in my post number 132.

Beyond that we have Cheri, who gives Sandfire a pass, calling Vickie a liar and Vickie calling Cheri a liar. My experience in such situations, where there is a personal feud and long standing bad blood, is that there is an element of truth on both sides and an element of exaggeration on both sides. Never, or rarely ever, is one party 100% honest and the other 0% when the blood is so bad for so long. None of us will likely ever know the whole truth.

As for the email that Vickie sent to me, if you are wondering, it was a copy of what was sent to her by Lou Ann at the Florida lab and a reference to the paper now posted at http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45375. I is a very worthwhile read and basically reiterates much of what I have said in respect to adenovirus infection versus disease.

 

[Stardust]

I just read it, unfortunately I do not see a lot of info that has not already been stated. Again as a lot of people have said, more research needs to be done.
I did find the part on whether it should be ignored interesting...