Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

[JimD]

Denise.
Never your head. Only proof. You must admit that keeping the info quiet is what got everyone going. Calls were made to your vet and the lab. Could it not have been avoided.
I still feel it hard to believe in a totally free colony. Stranger things have happend though.
Jim.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

Bryon-

I can appreciate what you're saying but it's not the string pulling that I'm hot over...well, it is...but not near as much as the lies he told about me...yet again. I'm sure someone on here can verify what I'm talking about. It had nothing to do with Adeno, and everything to do with an yet another attack from someone who I considered a friend. I can only be crapped on so many times without crapping right back.

This is one of the things that has caused more than one problem in this and other threads. There is a claim yet no proof or verification. Its the BOI folks , most of us know how it works and this is a perfect example of how screwed up it gets when only accusations are made with no proof. Show me something other than an accusation.

I can only be crapped on so many times without crapping right back

Might not want go there. You didn't paint yourself in the brightest light last time you " crapped back ".

Wasn't it Mike that vouched for you for Mod status on another site? Not seeing why he wouldn't say anything bad about you , vouch for you then out of the blue attack you. Still not something adding up here.

I have to agree with bry on this one, When ive spoken to Mike on the Phone ( the few times weve talked) He had told me HOW HAPPY he was that you guys were getting along again, and he honestly spoke Highly of you tere..... I would hate to see a mistaken pass of information get turned back into something ugly, people make mistakes. BIG ones. but personal things like these should be talked out in PM's, even Phone calls.... It would help so much better than silly Flame wars on the BOI like this.

Please, i dont know the half of everything here, but EVERYONE. Take a Damn step back, and breathe for a moment. This is a topic that is important to EVERY bearded keeper out there, understandable.... but look at whats has gone down over the past few days. If anything this should be a Humbling Experience for some of you. Stop. Sit. Think.

Again, i agree with bry, Second hand information shouldn't ever be brought to the table. I learned the hard way..... Cmon now.
There are people posting in this thread who i think so darn highly of, and even friends with. and i would hate to see somone crash and burn over something that should never have gotten started in the first place.

 

[Denisebme]

Denise.
Never your head. Only proof. You must admit that keeping the info quiet is what got everyone going. Calls were made to your vet and the lab. Could it not have been avoided.
I still feel it hard to believe in a totally free colony. Stranger things have happend though.
Jim.

No Jim, its not what got everyone going. The first call to my vet happened way back in January, and the harassment has been steadily building since them. The ONLY information I "kept quiet" as you say was the actual posting of my results, and I would think that the simple fact that someone has ALREADY posted results that are questionable should tell you why. I did NOT want my results to be misappropriated by someone trying to sell an infected colony.
You find a post where I have ever claimed to have a 100% free colony, it hasn't happened. I was VERY honest about the fact that I had one dragon test positive in the beginning and have openly talked about the second 2 that came from my colony that tested positive. My colony, every dragon in it right now, is currently testing negative but ONLY because the positive dragons have been placed in new homes.
I've also been VERY honest about the fact that I don't know what the future holds for me or my dragons. I have another round of testing already scheduled for late May or early June.
I've done every possible thing I can do to act ethically throughout this whole ordeal.
One more thing, I'm out of pocket a significant amount of money for testing right now, someone wants a hard copy of my test results, I'll tell ya what, you've got a right to them as soon as you pay for tests. With travel and the vet visit, its about $1200 a pop.

 

[BryonsBoas]

Bryon,

Mike aint being singled out. He certainly aint the puppet master, but he certainly has shown his true colors once again.

Sammy

Unfortunately the only proof that has been posted in this and the other 2 threads is Vicky coming foward and Bobby saying the same that the blood test has been verified to exist.

From the looks of it the same thing is being done to Mike and Vicky that got this crapload of a mess started to begin with. I'm just not seeing any proof of anything other than the test does exist and Denise very well could have a clean colony. Other than that its still a he said she said thing pointing in another direction.

 

[JimD]

Denise.
Sorry. I'll re-word. I still find it hard to believe we will find a AV negative colony.
Jim

 

[Stardust]

Just a suggestion but this thread is just an inquiry, perhaps, if there in not one already, those of you who have had transactions with Denise can start a good guy thread.

To Bobby: I do not really know you but what I have just witnessed here I would say you have earned respect, at least from me, it takes quite a person to stand up before his peers and say he was wrong.

 

[shrap]

Bryon,

I understand where you are coming from, but I think there is a bit more going on than what is being revealed here. And just because it aint posted here dont mean it aint happening.

Also, I dont think Bobby would lie to me. And that is what I am basing my stance on. The information he gave me on the phone and the things I have read the last few nights on many threads both recent and going back a couple of years.

 

[Tere Salazar]

Bryon-

If Mike was so "innocent", why would I have just received this?

Please keep in mind the things he's trying to get me to remember didn't happen the way he states they did.



After tonight Tere I will not bother you again but I wanted to get this off my chest.

I believed you about Denise up until a few days ago and even after that i fought with what I beleived. I even called Denise and spoke with her and I believed her too. Then after talking with U of F again and Vicky and Bobby and Vicky and Rob and Vicky, I started questioning you and Denise. I was told that the test flat out didn't exist, and then, and I admit I may be remembering wrong, but I was crushed when you told me that you didn't ever see Denise's results. I could have sworn at one point in the past you had told me you had. Thinking that you lied to me combined with what the U of F told me. I got pissed and even more confused. When I talked to Bobby I did mention that you were wanting to put your dragons down. And yes at one point you told me that you wouldn't be able to do it on your own and said that me and Cory might have to come over and help. Then again we were both emotional wrecks at that time I could be remembering that wrong too. You sent me that email telling me to put red boy and jaw baby in the freezer. Remember? Then we talked for several days almost non stop. At that point in time we trying to come up with options on how to not have to put them down I then offered to call Vicky so we could get information from her. We called her on that Tuesday and even they told you not to put your dragons down. That is what I told Bobby and I'm sorry I did. that should have never been repeated. Then I got caught up in that other girl lying about her results. Which made me think that you and Denise were lying even more about hers. I was b ing that Denise was going to get you in trouble. When all the while it was my blind loyalty to someone that f ed things up for me. It wasn't you messing up by standing by a friend, it was me.

I'm a fool Tere, I honestly believe that I was played and I fell for it hook, line and sinker. Bobby was not the only one being played and manipulated. I should have just picked up the phone and called you about all my thoughts like we always said we would do if we ever found ourselves in this kind of situation again. I failed in that respect and I'm even more sorry that I failed you as you have pointed out on the BOI again. I honestly don't know how are what to feel at this point. I knew a friend was f ing me over but I couldn't figure out which one. I guessed you and Denise and I was wrong. I'm sorry for that, I honestly should have known better.

Please let me know when and how you would like Red Boy and Diana to be returned to you. He's your little boy and she's your big girl and they deserve to be home with their mother.

Thanks for your time,

Mike

I would prefer that this remain between us and I will be sending a copy of it to Denise as well. I owe her an apology as much as I owe you one. You know me, Tere, I would never do anything to intentionally hurt you. Now that this has played out the way it has........ I'm sorry, I had no idea had blind I was being. I was too focused on how much I thought other were not seeing. It was me not seeing what was going on behind the scenes the whole time. Just when I start thinking that I am strong, no longer naive and can't be manipulated like i was by a person in the past.................

 

[varnyard]

From: Rebel Dragons [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:06 PM
To: Tere Salazar; [email protected]
Subject: Hey

She forgot this part.

 

[Wilomn]

Bryon-

If Mike was so "innocent", why would I have just received this?

Please keep in mind the things he's trying to get me to remember didn't happen the way he states they did.



After tonight Tere I will not bother you again but I wanted to get this off my chest.

I believed you about Denise up until a few days ago and even after that i fought with what I beleived. I even called Denise and spoke with her and I believed her too. Then after talking with U of F again and Vicky and Bobby and Vicky and Rob and Vicky, I started questioning you and Denise. I was told that the test flat out didn't exist, and then, and I admit I may be remembering wrong, but I was crushed when you told me that you didn't ever see Denise's results. I could have sworn at one point in the past you had told me you had. Thinking that you lied to me combined with what the U of F told me. I got pissed and even more confused. When I talked to Bobby I did mention that you were wanting to put your dragons down. And yes at one point you told me that you wouldn't be able to do it on your own and said that me and Cory might have to come over and help. Then again we were both emotional wrecks at that time I could be remembering that wrong too. You sent me that email telling me to put red boy and jaw baby in the freezer. Remember? Then we talked for several days almost non stop. At that point in time we trying to come up with options on how to not have to put them down I then offered to call Vicky so we could get information from her. We called her on that Tuesday and even they told you not to put your dragons down. That is what I told Bobby and I'm sorry I did. that should have never been repeated. Then I got caught up in that other girl lying about her results. Which made me think that you and Denise were lying even more about hers. I was b ing that Denise was going to get you in trouble. When all the while it was my blind loyalty to someone that f ed things up for me. It wasn't you messing up by standing by a friend, it was me.

I'm a fool Tere, I honestly believe that I was played and I fell for it hook, line and sinker. Bobby was not the only one being played and manipulated. I should have just picked up the phone and called you about all my thoughts like we always said we would do if we ever found ourselves in this kind of situation again. I failed in that respect and I'm even more sorry that I failed you as you have pointed out on the BOI again. I honestly don't know how are what to feel at this point. I knew a friend was f ing me over but I couldn't figure out which one. I guessed you and Denise and I was wrong. I'm sorry for that, I honestly should have known better.

Please let me know when and how you would like Red Boy and Diana to be returned to you. He's your little boy and she's your big girl and they deserve to be home with their mother.

Thanks for your time,

Mike

I would prefer that this remain between us and I will be sending a copy of it to Denise as well. I owe her an apology as much as I owe you one. You know me, Tere, I would never do anything to intentionally hurt you. Now that this has played out the way it has........ I'm sorry, I had no idea had blind I was being. I was too focused on how much I thought other were not seeing. It was me not seeing what was going on behind the scenes the whole time. Just when I start thinking that I am strong, no longer naive and can't be manipulated like i was by a person in the past.................

This has a VERY familiar ring to it. Seems like I stepped back in time about 2 years.

 

[Cat_72]

Tere NEVER wanted to put her dragons down. Ever. Nor would she have recommended anyone else do such a thing. Ever.

I have kept my mouth shut toward you for a long time Mike, as distasteful as that may have been to me. I never understood how she "forgave" you the last time, but out of respect for her, I left it alone and tried to move past it as well, but I tend to hold grudges, I guess....And for you to crap on her, tell lies about her yet again......it doesn't matter if you told the lies to just a select few that fit whatever warped agenda you have, they were lies just the same. Nasty, mean lies. Lies about things that would cause the most pain to her, and you knew it.

You ARE very good at these lies and mind games.....you can fool some....has it reached the point that even YOU don't know what is the truth any longer?

 

[Dachiu]

People pulling strings? Pointing fingers? As for those being “silent” - We didn’t want this posted in the BOI - especially with no facts. We started asking questions in the forum and ended asking questions in the forum. When the thread moved - we didn’t.


This should have been a simple subject to cover in the first place.

I will fully admit that I was suspicious of Denise’s obscure PCR test - especially after dealing with the Chasity/Cathy incident. She and Denise were the only 2 people who had done testing through this particular method which was first mentioned months ago by Shannon - Chasity was an obvious fake. I wanted confirmation on Denise’s testing.

EM testing showed 3 out of 4 testing positive… Fecal PCR has been indicated to be a much higher positive return rate… A test returning Denise’s results, to me, seems improbable - especially when PCR is so sensitive.

After notification, the doctors in Florida also wanted to know about this test. These are “the experts’ in Florida who in email correspondence say “Regarding the PCR blood/cloacal swab test. Please let me know who is performing this test.” ((there is much more in the email that raises even more questions))
Not only did they want this information - so did I (as by now I did not believe it existed). There has been entirely too much hearsay/BS passed from person to person and I needed to hear it from the lab.

In the same timeframe, Shannon contacted us for this same information - because her vet had made a mistake and the lab could not do this testing and her vet could not find a lab that would. This was posted all over the forums - Still, no answers.

We posted publicly for this labs info, asked for a PM of the labs identity, even called Denise, as Tere suggested - left a msg. and received no return call. By this point I was incredibly suspicious - you had better bet on it.

I did NOT call Denise’s vets office - months ago or now. Another did just last week and has a recorded voicemail message from a Dr. Flannigan of Studio City Animal Hospital stating that he can not find a lab that performs this type of a test.
.
Today was the first time I contacted CAL and I posted exactly what happened - after both our call and my vets call.

I know of others that have called and received varying responses, including being hung up on… We got a “no”, Bobby said he got a “no”, Shannon’s vet told her “no”, yet my vet managed to get a “yes”. Wonder what Cat’s vet will get… and the University of Florida also - as they are aware of this situation and will be contacting them.

As for Bobby, I pm’ed you Kevin’s contact information and then I do believe that you first picked up the phone and called here wanting any and all information that we could give you concerning the adenovirus.
Conversations progressed to handling this past weeks situation on Chasity and also our frustration and suspicion with Denise not responding. We supplied you with the facts as we understood them and encouraged you to confirm them with Fl. You went after Denise’s results - I wanted the labs name. You insisted that this was a scam, and we thought so too. BUT - how many times were you told by us not to do anything? To leave it alone? To give it time?
Then Mike posted the information on Chasity/Cathy on the BOI after her forged documents were confirmed on Monday and low and behold - you posted on Denise within hours. This was most definitely not our choice. We saw the inconsistencies in Denise’s posts, we still see them - still, they are not a basis for a BOI thread. Bobby, we discouraged you from bringing any accusations to the BOI before there were any facts available. Didn’t Rob say to you “You may eat your words” if you post anything without proof?
Im so sorry that you got involved in this mess at all… You seem like a good man, a straight shooter and have no tolerance for scammers - we are the same way… but you hit submit.

How long were Chasity’s results posted publicly with people having doubts but keeping quiet? Who do you think it was who took part in questioning the statistics of Chasity’s EM results? Who followed through and saved them and blew them up? Printed them, faxed them to be printed and examined again? Who was on the phone at 9am Monday morning with Lou Ann, emailed her the link to see the posted results for herself and check her databases?

The first time this more accurate method of blood/swab testing was ever mentioned on the forum was by Shannon (BarNoneReptiles) from the same avian lab. Shannon emails us asking where this test is being done, comes back to the forum with her inquiry and Denise disappears instead of informing Shannon that this particular lab did indeed do this testing. Yes, we question things.

We didn’t know Chasity, we do not know Denise.

As far as us being worried about someone achieving a negative colony - that is nonsense. We believe it is possible with a small group, but highly unlikely, especially with a minimum of 3 repeated fecal PCR testing. Eventually you will be seriously inbreeding.

We’ll address the rest of this later.
We do have documentation/emails of much of what we state and will forward them to another to view and verify. I do expect the same consideration.

 

[Denisebme]

Just a suggestion but this thread is just an inquiry, perhaps, if there in not one already, those of you who have had transactions with Denise can start a good guy thread.

To Bobby: I do not really know you but what I have just witnessed here I would say you have earned respect, at least from me, it takes quite a person to stand up before his peers and say he was wrong.

You're quite right about Bobby Hill. Not only does it take a whole lot of class to stand up publicly and do what he did, but by picking up the phone and simply making personal contact, it shows he really cares about the effect his actions have, and that means a lot in this world.
Bobby Hill was not my favorite person this weekend, but he was able to reverse my opinion of him in about 5 minutes on the phone. He's a great guy who got sucked into a situation by people he trusted, and that could happen to any of us.
I never asked Bobby to post a public apology, yet he went to every forum he had questioned me in and did it anyway. How many people would do that?

Right now, I don't regret anything that has happened except that I missed a little sleep this weekend. I found out through this thread that there are true good guys on Fauna, and everyone found out that a test that "didn't exist" actually does.
Now, to get back to the subject at hand, we have researchers trying to find answers for us, and those answers are going to be harder and harder to get if people keep up these campaigns of harassment against vets and labs that could be cooperating with the University of Florida.

 

[Denisebme]

People pulling strings? Pointing fingers? As for those being “silent” - We didn’t want this posted in the BOI - especially with no facts. We started asking questions in the forum and ended asking questions in the forum. When the thread moved - we didn’t.


This should have been a simple subject to cover in the first place.

I will fully admit that I was suspicious of Denise’s obscure PCR test - especially after dealing with the Chasity/Cathy incident. She and Denise were the only 2 people who had done testing through this particular method which was first mentioned months ago by Shannon - Chasity was an obvious fake. I wanted confirmation on Denise’s testing.

EM testing showed 3 out of 4 testing positive… Fecal PCR has been indicated to be a much higher positive return rate… A test returning Denise’s results, to me, seems improbable - especially when PCR is so sensitive.

After notification, the doctors in Florida also wanted to know about this test. These are “the experts’ in Florida who in email correspondence say “Regarding the PCR blood/cloacal swab test. Please let me know who is performing this test.” ((there is much more in the email that raises even more questions))
Not only did they want this information - so did I (as by now I did not believe it existed). There has been entirely too much hearsay/BS passed from person to person and I needed to hear it from the lab.

In the same timeframe, Shannon contacted us for this same information - because her vet had made a mistake and the lab could not do this testing and her vet could not find a lab that would. This was posted all over the forums - Still, no answers.

We posted publicly for this labs info, asked for a PM of the labs identity, even called Denise, as Tere suggested - left a msg. and received no return call. By this point I was incredibly suspicious - you had better bet on it.

I did NOT call Denise’s vets office - months ago or now. Another did just last week and has a recorded voicemail message from a Dr. Flannigan of Studio City Animal Hospital stating that he can not find a lab that performs this type of a test.
.
Today was the first time I contacted CAL and I posted exactly what happened - after both our call and my vets call.

I know of others that have called and received varying responses, including being hung up on… We got a “no”, Bobby said he got a “no”, Shannon’s vet told her “no”, yet my vet managed to get a “yes”. Wonder what Cat’s vet will get… and the University of Florida also - as they are aware of this situation and will be contacting them.

As for Bobby, I pm’ed you Kevin’s contact information and then I do believe that you first picked up the phone and called here wanting any and all information that we could give you concerning the adenovirus.
Conversations progressed to handling this past weeks situation on Chasity and also our frustration and suspicion with Denise not responding. We supplied you with the facts as we understood them and encouraged you to confirm them with Fl. You went after Denise’s results - I wanted the labs name. You insisted that this was a scam, and we thought so too. BUT - how many times were you told by us not to do anything? To leave it alone? To give it time?
Then Mike posted the information on Chasity/Cathy on the BOI after her forged documents were confirmed on Monday and low and behold - you posted on Denise within hours. This was most definitely not our choice. We saw the inconsistencies in Denise’s posts, we still see them - still, they are not a basis for a BOI thread. Bobby, we discouraged you from bringing any accusations to the BOI before there were any facts available. Didn’t Rob say to you “You may eat your words” if you post anything without proof?
Im so sorry that you got involved in this mess at all… You seem like a good man, a straight shooter and have no tolerance for scammers - we are the same way… but you hit submit.

How long were Chasity’s results posted publicly with people having doubts but keeping quiet? Who do you think it was who took part in questioning the statistics of Chasity’s EM results? Who followed through and saved them and blew them up? Printed them, faxed them to be printed and examined again? Who was on the phone at 9am Monday morning with Lou Ann, emailed her the link to see the posted results for herself and check her databases?

The first time this more accurate method of blood/swab testing was ever mentioned on the forum was by Shannon (BarNoneReptiles) from the same avian lab. Shannon emails us asking where this test is being done, comes back to the forum with her inquiry and Denise disappears instead of informing Shannon that this particular lab did indeed do this testing. Yes, we question things.

We didn’t know Chasity, we do not know Denise.

As far as us being worried about someone achieving a negative colony - that is nonsense. We believe it is possible with a small group, but highly unlikely, especially with a minimum of 3 repeated fecal PCR testing. Eventually you will be seriously inbreeding.

We’ll address the rest of this later.
We do have documentation/emails of much of what we state and will forward them to another to view and verify. I do expect the same consideration.

Wait a second. The first time you EVER called my house was this Sunday at 8:06 PM my time, and there is no corresponding message on my voice mail, but I sure have the time on my caller ID. By that time, I had already been under attack for 2 solid days, and according to people who are coming forward now, they were attacking me because of information they got from YOU.
There really is nothing new here, the attacks have been happening for months against anyone and everyone that tests or advocates for testing.
I stopped giving out personal information the minute my vet told me that people were trying to get my personal information out of them. Add to that the fact that I was told straight out that you were asking people way back in January for them. Not for the lab information, but for my test results.
I never "disappeared" on this issue, I stopped fighting with people that had an obvious agenda because there was little at the time I could do to end it without giving in and posting my results in a public forum. There was nothing that prevented anyone from contacting me directly, as anyone can tell you, my phone number is on my profile here, as is my email address, and its also on my website. Plenty of people have called in the last few days, and as any of them can tell you, I answer my phone if I'm home, or I return calls or emails when I return.

 

[varnyard]

Rich, Dennis, Ken or Jay, I need to know if I can address this on a public forum? Rich's rules state that two moderators can not dispute on a open forum. IMO, this was started on an open forum, and it would need to be addressed on one.

 

[CheriS]

Does anyone else hear violins paying through Vicki's post? I see this and think that old grade school rhyme "lair, lair, pants on fire"

I was going through and highlighting her puppetmaster- sell down the river and still CYA comments, when after the first dozen, I said why bother?

People here reading this and other threads on the BD forum realize what is going on Its happened over and over FOR MONTH, the difference is you got caught this time in your lies and your manipulation of others backfired on you.

NOTE: to those she fed the lies to and then you repeated it.....that I told Wendy, Tammy and some others I will not name here to kill their dragons and I am the cause any were put down that were healthy -----, there is not a shed of truth to that, just another lie from someone who tells these things to manipulate others. just sick & pathetic

The one thing I will quote from above and comment on that she did say that makes me want to throw up, the person has been through enough due to " Vicki's wants and games"

We saw the inconsistencies in Denise’s posts, we still see them - still

Give it up Vicki, the ship has sailed-you missed the boat and you have empty strings you need to try to find a replacement for if anyone is stupid enough... maybe more than one set, depends on if Mike is still going to play for you.. make your calls for you still and retell your lies

Mike said
Then after talking with U of F again and Vicky and Bobby and Vicky and Rob and Vicky.

I honestly believe that I was played and I fell for it hook, line and sinker. Bobby was not the only one being played and manipulated.

I knew a friend was f ing me over but I couldn't figure out which one. I guessed you and Denise and I was wrong. I'm sorry for that, I honestly should have known better.

It was me not seeing what was going on behind the scenes the whole time. Just when I start thinking that I am strong, no longer naive and can't be manipulated like i was by a person in the past

Mike, you need to change who you think are your friends. Open you eyes and look what is going on around you

 

[varnyard]

Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 07:29:13 -0400
From: "Dachiu" <[email protected]> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: "Bobby n Sandy" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: How ya like me now??
You are too funny! Did you poke DThomas and has him make that call to slide this to the BOI?

What kills me is that it is a simple question, requiring a simple answer. And yet these are the same people who put themselves on a pedestal and expect others to do as they do. Were we all to have followed their lead - we would all be a pack of lying idiots.

vickie

ps - do you never sleep????

 

[Tere Salazar]

As for Bobby, I pm’ed you Kevin’s contact information and then I do believe that you first picked up the phone and called here wanting any and all information that we could give you concerning the adenovirus.
Conversations progressed to handling this past weeks situation on Chasity and also our frustration and suspicion with Denise not responding. We supplied you with the facts as we understood them and encouraged you to confirm them with Fl. You went after Denise’s results - I wanted the labs name. You insisted that this was a scam, and we thought so too. BUT - how many times were you told by us not to do anything? To leave it alone? To give it time?

Vickie-

Don't you realize when it's time to admit what you did and stop trying to cover your tracks? Do you honestly think that anyone with half a brain didn't figure out a few days ago exactly what was going on...and that you sent Bobby to do your dirty work? Um, I seem to remember calling that one on the Sandfire thread. Remember that?

Tell your "friend" to do HER own dirty work. I bet a bunch of y'all thought I had just called Kevin a girl, huh?

And yes, Denise has known all about you wanting her RESULTS, not simply the lab or the particular test conducted...but the RESULTS since I remembered the conversation in January the morning after I found out my dragons were positive. Oh...and Mike, that was a Saturday morning...not a Tuesday.

Anyway, the phone call was bright and early Saturday morning, and attending that call were myself, Mike Shoemaker, Vickie Dachiu and Rob Dachiu. I've come to refer to it as the "brainwashing session". In that call, I was being told it wasn't some horrible thing that my dragons have this deadly virus, that really all bearded dragons have it. Nothing to worry about at all. Probably not a real good thing to say to someone who lost a bunch of babies to this virus that you're helping to spread.

Most of what was said was ignored, but one thing about that conversation stuck in my mind. That was when you, Vickie Dachiu, asked me to get Denise's TEST RESULTS and send them to you. I don't remember what excuse you gave for wanting them, and it really makes no difference.

Talk about inconsistencies. Vickie, please. Who's being inconsistent now? Um, didn't you just say in your post that you didn't think this belonged on the BOI...but yet, you were urging Bobby to request having it moved here. What's the matter Vickie? Can't do your own dirty work?

Bobby, thank you for posting that email from Vickie. I personally think it goes to show what she thinks about the people who post in the bearded dragon forum, you know, the people she's supposed to be helping, you know...all us PACK OF LYING IDIOTS.

Who's the lying idiot now, Vickie? Would your "pack" be Mike Shoemaker? Looks like you're the one who's been caught.

 

[DThomas]

Rich, Dennis, Ken or Jay, I need to know if I can address this on a public forum? Rich's rules state that two moderators can not dispute on a open forum. IMO, this was started on an open forum, and it would need to be addressed on one.

The rule is for not disputing moderator duties in the open. It is not meant to prevent you from discussing something seperate from those duties.

 

[JimD]

Mike and Bobby.
Good for you guys to be able to say you're sorry.
Couple things I dint get though is Mike, you jumped on the band wagon a while ago bashing people but then came back to say you jumped the gun before you really knew what was going on. You said sorry. Now you jumped on the band wagon again, messed up and now come back to say sorry.
Bobby. You say that others were brain washing you but yet you used quote after quote. I thought you were really into this and were doing your own research. If not, you sure made it look like you were.
It seems that you both want to say it wasn't you that caused this. How old are you both?
I sure hope that if I ever need a good jury that none of you are on it because you all make up your minds with no hard core proof.
Jim