Inquiry, Denise Latanzi AKA, Denisebme www.Calidragons.com

[Denisebme]

Not to go against the grain here.....but after reading a few threads on this subject here at fauna and else where on the web, it would appear that people and their vets have contacted the testing facility only to get mixed answers, from what I've gathered...the testing facility has told people/vets in the past that they did not do blood tests for bearded dragons...only avian. But now they state to have been "outsourcing" or have a outside source to do the blood tests for bearded dragons.

It would also seem that even some of the current testing facilities people are using were also unaware that blood testing was/is available.

This would suggest to me that some confusion may have been in play. I don't think anyone mentioned in this thread is a "bad guy"...but it does seem that people were fueling the fire with what THEY perceived as true and accurate.

I don't really think a person can be faulted for their actions based on what they were under the assumption was true. I've been researching on my own for a little over 3-4 days now....and I must say that I haven't run across anything YET that pushes me one way or the other due to the lack of actual cold hard published facts, either its very outdated info or its info thats been passed on 2nd/ 3rd hand....I'm sure that I'm not the only one out there confused as heck

But then again....everyone needs to make their own semi-educated decisions based on the "facts" that are available.

Actually, part of the reason that this became an issue for me is that people twisted my words to make it simply a "blood" test, when in fact it was not. Some of that was my fault for badly wording a post or two, but in every single post, I was clear that the test required both blood and cloacal (fecal) samples.
I've talked to a few people now that admit to calling the lab, and it seems that it depended on the questions asked what answers they got. If they asked specifically about a blood test, they were told NO, they didn't do that test. If they were asked specifically about PCR testing, their answer was that yes, they could do have it done by VET request.

 

[Wilomn]

Bobby.
I also have Tegus and have heard from my vet there is a good chance they have it too. Not the Agama strain but their own.
Jim

Is there ANY chance you could provide further information or documentation to verify this?

 

[Cat_72]

I just tried to call my vet to find out what he heard from the lab, and he's out on an emergency farm call.....I probably won't have his answer until tomorrow.

 

[Ed Clark]

I think thats a very important statement! this information has been coming out for awhile now and it seems as if everyone....or most everyone, are stilling selling these infected bearded dragons. I hope Im wrong about this but after following these threads about this virus it seems that it would be a good guess that most dragons are infected and the sales still continue.

The difference here between Jim and "all of the other importers" as I see it, is that Jim is the only one that is here, and that we can see that he KNOWS he is importing infected dragons.....and continues to do so.

 

[JimD]

Wilomn.
Are you asking me to prove she said there is a good possibility, or results after they are tested?.
Jim

 

[JimD]

Has anyone looked in the availible section for dragons here on Fauna? Anyone want to be the one to PM all these people selling dragons and tell them to stop. I think a lot of them would have choice words for you.
Jim.

 

[Wilomn]

Wilomn.
Are you asking me to prove she said there is a good possibility, or results after they are tested?.
Jim

I'm asking for any and all proof you have both of your statement, the tests existance, it's existance in Tegus, and anything else that would pertain to a virus in Tegus and any and all tests, no matter what form, are being utilized to determine the existance of said virus in Tegus.

 

[Wilomn]

Has anyone looked in the availible section for dragons here on Fauna? Anyone want to be the one to PM all these people selling dragons and tell them to stop. I think a lot of them would have choice words for you.
Jim.

Are YOU currently selling dragons? Are YOU stirring a pot here? Do YOU know Ms. Kettle just to your left Mr. Pot?

 

[varnyard]

Widespread in nature, infecting birds, many mammals and man. There are 2 genera, Aviadenovirus (avian) and Mastadenovirus (mammalian)

Adenoviruses were discovered in 1953. About 47 different types have been identified.

But is not killing tegus yet. Jim it is killing beardies!!

However, if it does become a problem in tegus it will be because of very stupid people spreading the infected animals. They are in it for just the money, as well as caring less about our hobby or the animals.

Any thoughts on who that might be doing that?

You see Jim it is not about everyone else right now, it is all about you.

Any guesses?

 

[Stardust]

Has anyone looked in the availible section for dragons here on Fauna? Anyone want to be the one to PM all these people selling dragons and tell them to stop. I think a lot of them would have choice words for you.
Jim.

Since you seem persistant on keeping this thread going.

Actually I do have two females who are going to be laying. I am sending out for three tests as one for each female and one for the male. If they should come back pos those eggs with NEVER see an incubator!
This will only be my 3rd and 4th clutch in 7 years as I do not breed often at all, they are more pets then anything but if they are positive they will remain pets ONLY until they pass.

 

[JimD]

Wilomn.
My vet is checking on our ability to test ANY of our reptiles. The statement being said was of an opinion. Never was it said to be fact. There is proof of AV being found in other reptiles. That being said, there is a very good possibility of it being in many other reptiles. They don't all the same AV as we have all read.
As for Mrs. Kettle and Mr.Pot... I think they were from Beauty and the Beast.
All joking aside, no I am not stirring the pot. Yes I am selling dragons.
Jim

 

[JimD]

Stardust
I am answering questions now. Not keeping it going. The post about the available section was eye opener for people around here. There are a lot of dragons being sold by whomever. Is anyone questioning John Doe about it? Why not?
Jim.

 

[Stardust]

All joking aside, no I am not stirring the pot. Yes I am selling dragons.

Perhaps this thread should go on the Canadian BOI as well and anywhere else so people have a clue and a choice as to whether they want to buy from you who have not tested your animals or wait until others who are testing sell.

Are you disclosing this information that your Beardies MIGHT be carriers prior to selling?

 

[Cat_72]

Jim, as I mentioned before, the difference is that you KNOW you are selling infected dragons.

And the post about the available section was not an "eye opener" to most people reading this thread. What we need to be doing is educating those folks that don't know about adeno, not pretending it doesn't exist and continuing to knowingly sell infected dragons.

 

[varnyard]

Wilomn.
My vet is checking on our ability to test ANY of our reptiles. The statement being said was of an opinion. Never was it said to be fact. There is proof of AV being found in other reptiles. That being said, there is a very good possibility of it being in many other reptiles. They don't all the same AV as we have all read.
As for Mrs. Kettle and Mr.Pot... I think they were from Beauty and the Beast.
All joking aside, no I am not stirring the pot. Yes I am selling dragons.
Jim

Adenoviruses were discovered in 1953. About 47 different types have been identified.

All animals can get it, correct? Many of these types do not affect them, do not twist this!! Beardies are dieing from this strain, not the other 46 types.

Widespread in nature, infecting birds, many mammals and man. There are 2 genera, Aviadenovirus (avian) and Mastadenovirus (mammalian)

 

[JimD]

Bobby.
No twisting here. In another Forum I asked people if they had thought about testing other reptiles in their collections. How do we know that this wont become a problem in a lot of reptiles. There is a problem in the States I hear with corn snakes.
Is that statement valid or am I wrong (about the corn snakes)
Jim

 

[JimD]

Cat.
I agree. But again, let me ask you, when did I bring dragons in last?
Jim.

 

[varnyard]

Bobby.
No twisting here. In another Forum I asked people if they had thought about testing other reptiles in their collections. How do we know that this wont become a problem in a lot of reptiles. There is a problem in the States I hear with corn snakes.
Is that statement valid or am I wrong (about the corn snakes)
Jim

You are here for the conflict, you said it yourself. Why don't you go get tested yourself, I will guarantee you will test positive for one of the 47 types.

Yes, I would not doubt there are many types of this in reptiles, but it is not killing them like it is the beardies.

Adenoviruses is in all different types of animals, birds and humans. But this is killing beardies and you know it!!

 

[JimD]

Bobby.
Why would I be here for the conflict? Who wants to be drilled with questions?
Ill answer them but it does not lead to a very productive day for me.
As for not killing other reptiles, may I ask again about the corn snakes. Am I misinformed?
Jim

 

[Neverland Dragons]

There are actually 4 genus of adenovirus. Mastadenovirus, Aviadenovirus, Atadenovirus and Siadenovirus. Here is a link to a site with some good info on the classification of the different adenoviruses

http://linux.vmri.hu/~harrach/AdVtaxlong.htm

I posted this link before in a different thread when people were comparing studies on human adenovirus to adenovirus in bearded dragons. They are quite different and although the reading is very dry, it is interesting. Atadenovirus is the one that bearded dragon adenovirus is classified under. This lists tentative reptile species with their strain of adenovirus as chameleon adenovirus, gecko adenovirus, bearded dragon adenovirus and snake adenovirus.