• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

Inquiry: MKR: Morph King Reptiles

Teiidae said:
I've been following this and the other thread for days now - What bothers me JOE, is that somewhere in the past, you forgot your roots - Are you not a disciple of an Italian family that came to this country to live the American Dream ?

Perhaps you got financed into the high dollar realm of the business, to where most have not and started from the ground up, with many years of hard work.

Yet you come in here with the mentality that "I am King of the Ball Python World", - Did you work for it or did the money fall into your hands ?

Do you not see how people read your arrogance with what you come on here and post, as it's quite clear " You certainly make it that way" - You are king of the world like Al Pacchino in Scarface, but lets remember what happened to him in the end.

I am very happy to say that I have not bought ANY snakes from you, and never will as I hope most would not after they come on a public BOI and read your bullshit - Your own mouth is burning your own empire and will crumble one day because of your arrogance - Get your 10k back, and get lost along with your disciples you've paid to come on here and get your back - Their backing of you has also lost any interest I would have with purchases from them so they will hurt from me as well.

Does my purchase or lack thereof hurt their business ? - Not at all - Does it effect all the people who come on here looking for inquires ? - You bet your ass it does :thumbsup:

Continue doing business as you do, and remember where it all started - One day you will be starting from the ground up again and your customers will be selling you back the snakes they bought from you for 10% of what they bought them from you for.

In a nutshell - You are pretty pathetic Joe - Sad to know you are of Italian Origin - With a name like Capone, how can I be wroung :angry:
Click to expand...

Yours Truly
Michael J Proetto
 
When everyone got into morphs they should have realized that it was a volatile situation by nature. You are talking about "products" with absolutely no inherent value other than the arbitrary value that a select few place on them. Let's face it, they are all just Ball Pythons with minor genetic variations. "Investing" thousands of dollars in animals whos market value is fictitious at best is a risky proposition and anyone doing so should be prepared to lose all of that money.

Hell, I think Spider Ball Pythons are neat looking and I would pay up to $75 for one since that is as high as I hold their value. If someone wants to sell every morph on the planet for $50 each, then more power to them.

I will take it one step further and share my generally unpopular opinion. I think that crashing the Ball Python morph market would be a public service and I would welcome it. Just like most industries, greed has taken over ours. Rather than enjoying the animals for what they are, we are now mass producing "products" rather than creatures and trying to squeeze every dollar out of each one for no other purpose than pure greed. I am sorry, but there is no Ball Python worth $10,000 and anyone who is willing to "invest" their hard earned money in such a ridiculous endeavor deserves to lose that money as the winds change. It is not a solid investment and is a fool's errand. Keep what interests you and forget about the money.

A crash in the morph markets has been a long time coming and is long overdue. Now we just need a few people to give the morph markets of other species a little push down the slope.
 
My personal opinion.

The ball python market was over inflated. In some senses, it was similar to a pyramid scheme that will eventually tumble.

However, what these mass breeders did was intentional and possibly criminal. It was not free trade, it was dumping the market.

When you intentionally drop the price of your product for the purpose of squeezing smaller guys out of the market leaving them at a loss, smaller guys you profited from by charging them high prices, that is just sickening. It is also called dumping, and in some cases, is illegal. I'm not a lawyer so I won't say this incident of dumping was illegal, but I can say that I personally have no respect for this tactic.
 
I agree with the last two posts in most respects. And I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree about certain morphs being held in higher regard than others. These are living animals who don't know or care what they look like or sell for. They deserve the same attention and care. I think that basic fact is often overlooked with all of the hot looking new morphs that dominate the hobby. I remember when it was enjoyable just having a python from AFRICA!!!

Which is one of the reasons I initially loved the lowered prices that Morph King was offering. Because, I believe it is VERY unreasonable to spend more than $1,000 on any snake, especially when they have the same biological make-up as a $5 normal ball python!
 
FunkyRes said:
When you intentionally drop the price of your product for the purpose of squeezing smaller guys out of the market leaving them at a loss, smaller guys you profited from by charging them high prices, that is just sickening. It is also called dumping, and in some cases, is illegal. I'm not a lawyer so I won't say this incident of dumping was illegal, but I can say that I personally have no respect for this tactic.
Click to expand...
Wal Mart? Home Depot? K Mart?
 
They are distributors, they do not manufacture (breed) the product and then dump.
They buy and sell above value. If they sold below purchase price for the purpose of stomping out competitors, that would be illegal dumping. That they do not do. On some products wallmart sells at a penny over cost, but that is still not selling above cost.

Where it seems fuzzy to me is snake breeding is a different kind of market than retail buying and selling. The actions of these folks may be legal by the letter of the law. However, that does not make it any less scummy, and this is the kind of thing that can cause new legislation (ofter over reactive to the extreme) to cover the case.
 
For the record, I do not ever see paying more than 5x the cost of a normal for a genetically reproducable morph of a species that is relatively easy to breed as a wise business investment. I think a lot of people who paid these insane prices did so foolishly.

That doesn't make it any less scummy.

The Kennedy family got their money doing things with the stock market that are now blatently illegal. Those who fell victim may not have made the smartest decisions, that doesn't make the actions used to take their money any less dirty.
 
FunkyRes said:
and this is the kind of thing that can cause new legislation (ofter over reactive to the extreme) to cover the case.
Click to expand...
What? That seems like an unfounded alarmist statement for the purpose of trying to add some semblance of validity to the argument that what they are doing is wrong. It has no basis in reality. Burms being set free may cause legislation. Escaped venomous snakes may cause legislation. Causing a panic by bringing snakes to public places in a nonprofessional capacity may cause legislation. Lowballing the competition is NOT going to cause legislation.
 
BWSmith said:
What? That seems like an unfounded alarmist statement for the purpose of trying to add some semblance of validity to the argument that what they are doing is wrong. It has no basis in reality. Burms being set free may cause legislation. Escaped venomous snakes may cause legislation. Causing a panic by bringing snakes to public places in a nonprofessional capacity may cause legislation. Lowballing the competition is NOT going to cause legislation.
Click to expand...

They sold at a very high price one year. It was not hobbyists buying these snakes, it was investors, small time breeders hoping to make some money.

They very next year, they sell the same snakes at 10% of the previous price, and make statements about driving the small time breeders out of business.

This was nothing but a money grab. It may have been a legal money grab, but it was stealing from the working class that was trying to make an honest buck.

That is exactly the kind of action that results in new (often over bearing) laws to be written.
 
FunkyRes said:
it was investors, small time breeders hoping to make some money.
Click to expand...
And when investing money in anything, you have to be prepared to take significant losses. Maybe some people learned that investing in livestock is inherently riskier than many other investments. Hopefully they also learned that investing in a fictitious market is stupid. I have been watching the Ball Python market snowball into absurdity over the years. It is to the point that something slightly different is born and before it takes its first meal, it has already been assigned morph nomenclature, patented, marketed, and given an outlandish price with no basis. It is a matter of someone dangling a carrot saying "this type is worth $5000" and greedy lemmings follow suit with dollar signs in their eyes and money in hand trying to cash in on the Morph of the Month.

A depression or crash in the Ball Python market has always been an inevitable certainty. I am just glad that I am here to listen to the tales of woe and get a chuckle out of it.
 
B.W., first off your posts should be deleted since you don't feel you have to follow the rules and use your full name but only initials. You demonstrate your ignorance of both the ball python market and the reptile business as a whole through your arrogant statements with no fact to back them up.

What crash in the ball python market pal? More balls are sold every day than the day before. The market grows every day, all over the world. The are exempt from US native animal laws. They fall under the wave of 6' constrictor laws. They are not venomous. They are calm and easy to work with. They eat comercially available foods. All these facts and oh yeah, how about that there are now more proven genetic mutations in ball pythons then nearly all other herps combined, make them not only ideal for the hobbiest but for the investor.

There is no end in site to the potential combos. Most of the players in the industry in every facet: tortoises, turtles, frogs, colubrids, geckos, etc., have all seen the light and moved into ball pythons as well. They are the long term product in this industry. As burms and retics as well as monitors and crocodillians become illegal all over this country, the ball is the perfect animal for pet and pet trade. Those are facts. Not just slanted opinion.

What mkr did was not drop a price or adjust a market. How many times does it have to be said? They dumped the price on some specific mutations to intentially hurt people in the business AND THEY SAID THAT THEMSELVES! You guys keep defending them from something they admitted to!

If you don't like ball pythons B.W. that is great. Stay on the sidelines and watch everyone else enjoy producing new products and bringing more choices and options to the market place. But rooting for a crash in the ball market is what a moron would do since the ball market has been the only thing driving the industry for the past several years!

Do you know what percentage of people that attend herp shows go just to see and buy ball pythons? The vast majority! The ball python forums on every site get a mountain of traffic compared to the others. The ball python wanted and sales posts on all sites blow away all others in volume and hits! You don't have to like it buddy, but you do have to stop stating your opinion as fact! The ball python is by far the hottest thing in this business and it is here to stay.
 
There was a market for Emu's around the country 10 years ago, birds were selling for 5-10k, to other breeders every one was buying to get rich to breed more birds to sell to more breeders. There was no consumer market, eventually the bottom fell out. ( I know of many people who lost their farms on the gamble.) There are people in W. Texas that will give you the birds if you come get them now. In the ball market there are a few pet owners that may pay a few grand for a snake, but its mainly people who plan to breed, (in my opinion) That is a risk you take that you must be willing to accept as a breeder, that the price will fall, not go down, but plummet to a point that the average guy is willing to pay. I don't think we are at that point yet, that is why I have spent 4k in the last few months. However if it goes I still have my day job.

Pinner
 
That is another poor comparrison. How many different color and pattern morphs of the birds were there? The birds are what, 6-7 feet tall? It is a terrible analogy. And ball morphs are finding their way into the pet trade which is obviously where they will all eventually end up. That is what everyone wants. Do you know how many people who have no interest in breeding ball pythons will buy a pied when they get cheap? Or a bumblebee? It is all about how amazing they look and what great pets they make.
 
Evan I agree with you, it was a bad comparision, because there was no market for the birds in the US. There will be a market for balls, just not at 5k a pop in the local pet store.
 
Back
Top