Inquiry on bearded pets?

[screamdreams]

Mike -

I really do not like to bad mouth anyone

Believe it or not, I don't like to either. I almost regret my previous replies already, but for some unknown reason these people have seriously rubbed me the wrong way. I know their full of crap, and I'm calling them on it. I wish I could just sit back and let it go, not get involved, etc. but I almost feel like I'm on a mission. I've been in the hobby a long time, and seen way too many BEARDED PETS come and go. The ones who ultimately suffer are their customers and their animals, and that's what ticks me off the most. I'm going to take a "chill pill" for a moment (that means I'll be hanging out celebrating the 4th of July with my 2 beautiful little girls) and come back a better person. Who knows, maybe even then I'll be "cute, cuddly, and super tame"!!!!

 

[Mike T]

HI TROY

Ill be honest, I feel the same way you do. I read this post everyday and I can not believe that there are people who will still do business with people like this. I posted because I want people to know that you simply can not see parasites with the naked eye. Certain flat worms yes, but others you can't see. I was not trying to start with anyone, but I hate when I see people getting sick animals from someone who shouldn't own a pet rock, let alone reptiles.
Ive bought beautiful and healthy animals that came from you Troy and I can honestly say that you ae a man of integrity. I never bought from Jon, nor will i after reading 49 pages of bad press and after he made the statement about the facies(lol).
I would also like to ask why he is only using Flagyl. I do not work with many turtles, but Flagyl only takes care of a small amount of parasites.
Happy 4th

 

[NEWReptiles]

QUESTION FOR TRUNK

So, I see yet another ad up on KS for what I would bet are fake hets. In that ad you state

These are hold back 100% Het for pied ball pythons, They are about 5-6 months old and weigh 300-325 grams. These are AWESOME ! They are eating great on frozen thawed mice 2-3 times a week. We have lots of breeding projects going on so we have decided to sell these 2 females.

Now, please tell me how 300 gram normal balls are going to put another 1000-1200 grams on before breeding season?

You guys have NO CLUE, do you?

 

[screamdreams]

You know it realvenum -

They don't have a clue. I recently saw an ad wher they had a couple 300+ grammers that "will breed this coming season" but of course the chances of us getting this guy to come here and stay awhile so we can get some answers is slim to none. He hides. Now I know what the saying "junk in the trunk" means. It's so obvious.

Mike

Ive bought beautiful and healthy animals that came from you Troy

Thank you very much for the kind words!! I'm glad you didn't let my quick and temporary loss of temper affect your opinion of me. I honestly do try my best not to get too caught up in certain situations, but I guess we all have our breaking point, and I am just sick of the stuff this guy tries to pull. I know most of us know about the BOI and with that, we know better, but what about the others who may not. If he sells one animal, it's one too many. Take care!!!

 

[Mike T]

Hey Troy,
i knew your frustration was not towards me. I actually had to go and read their ad for myself. They really are clueless. Its a shame when people who have a good reputation have to suffer to try and sell hets when you have these people ruining it. Trust me, I bought some animals that people said were special and I looked like a jerk on a number of occations. This is my first year working with ball pythons and i was under the impression that all those susposed morphs were true.
Anyway, no ofence taken.
Mike

 

[jon1048]

Adressing some questions

Hi, I had the feces sample inspected by a vet. I did not do it my self. I am not an idiot and do not have the right equipment to be able to make sure there are no protozoans or other parasites in the tortoises or other animals. The only thing I would be able to do myself is to inspect the animals excrement and see if it seems weird in comparison to the way it should be. Such as wet and slushy or other problems. Flagyl works the best on all counts. I believe the main problem is protozoans and occasional bacteria. Flagyl is well known to be the best for these type of parasites and problems. I immediately use panacur on all animals when they come in. I use flagyl as the secondary treatment. Panacur works best on worms and other more non protozoan type of infections.

How is it that each and every one of your reptiles for sale are CUTE & CUDDLY?????? Your alligators just "loved to be held", your WC Torts "just love attention", all of your hets are "super tame and cuddly".....what the freak are you selling man???? Stuffed animals???

Well Troy the reason is simple I only try to sell "cute and cuddly animals" the crocodilians I sell I made a point to tell all potential customers about the care they needed and pint out that they are tame now but even though they have the potential to be moderate adults, when they grow up they will become dangerous, VERY DANGEROUS.

Name three....with contact info.

Troy- I will have no problem doing this and I most certainly will.

IMHO you'll soon suffer the inevitable....a downward spiral leading you deep into the ses pool of our industry, with all the other bottom dwellers. Get real or get out.

Troy- I have gotten real, I sell only animals that I believe in and your comment is kind of uncalled for.

If you'd like to comment on anyone of these things listed, I'd lend you an ear. Maybe I just have a wrong impression of you. Maybe if you tell us a little about yourself it would help. Let's communicate.

Troy- now this boggles my mind. One minute I am a bottom dweller that should lurk in the depth of a ses pool. The next you are willing to understand and communicate? Well if hat comment was actually true then I have no problem. I have emailed you responses stating I am more then willing to talk to you on the phone if needed. I have nothing to hide and will expose any problems I might have. My hets are real, I buy more then just one. I tend to buy entire clutches at a time. This saves me a lot of money. As far as the hets coming from all around the globe, well that might be true but I have decided to settle down with one breeder that I completely trust in the states.

They don't have a clue. I recently saw an ad wher they had a couple 300+ grammers that "will breed this coming season" but of course the chances of us getting this guy to come here and stay awhile so we can get some answers is slim to none. He hides. Now I know what the saying "junk in the trunk" means. It's so obvious.

Troy- Well I am willing to stay a while and answer questions under the condition that I do not get hounded and quoted and all of what I say mangled around and tossed about till it all seems so awkward that I do not even know how to begin to answer. So I rather communicate directly to one person at a time even with this as such I would be willing to post here and hopefully better up my reputation. With consideration that my reputation to people that have not purchased with me as been destroyed and with those that have purchased from me. At least 95% is very good. To any customers I could not satisfy I do apologize and in most cases offered refunds or in the very, very, very rare case a replacement. " I say rare because I never usually have a death, I only offer replacements with deaths" "Refunds are for customers not fully satisfied and they speak up in the week and a couple of days that I usually offer them to." As far as the 300 gram balls go, with power feeding they will be ready by the next season. What I mean is next years season. If I am wrong with that well then I apologize but I have raised ball pythons that became full breeding age in one year. The babys I currently have will shoot up in size as they are feeding like mad.

Now let me address the situation of the Madagascar big headed turtles. I was told by Mario that they ate trout chow and gold fish. And since these turtles became such a subject of attention, I figured I should address it. As far as my add running twice after they were sold. The reason is simple, I JUST KEPT PRESSING THE BUTTON TO RENEW IT. I do that to most of my adds.

Now as far as Reptile Trader go’s, I have absolutely no clue what the hell those few individuals were talking about. All I have to say is "do you home work guys because I don’t even have the slightest clue of who they are." So please I don’t like getting other peoples name thrown on me. Either way I will now go and try to enjoy the rest of my day. Something im sure you guys would hate for me to do.
Thanks

 

[The BoidSmith]

Jon,

We appreciate your willingness to clarify some issues and I agree there is no need to twist around your words.

These are your words:

BLACK BACK BALL PYTHON 2 MONTHS OLD ! VERY PRETTY AND A STRAIT LINE OF BLACK ! TAKE A LOOK !
WILL SHIP ANYWHERE IN CONTINENTAL USA!!!
Posted by (Contact Me!) on June 23, 2004 at 20:36:19
Registered PetHobbyist User since 2004-01-05
Send this ad to a friend! Click Here!


Click on thumbnails to view fullsize in a new window

We currently have a black back ball python he is a male and is about 2 months old weighs about 90 grams. He is very nice and friendly would be awesome to add to any breeding project or collection since he has a 98% chance he will produce clown. We will sell this awesome animal for only $200 shipped ! ! ! We have better pictures if you need them.
We will be happy to answer any questions , we accept Pay Pal , money orders and cashiers checks.
Thank You
Bearded Pets[/B]

Do you care to elaborate about the genetic origin of this animal?

Thanks.

 

[screamdreams]

Very good question....

Jon,
As per your wishes I will patiently wait for you to answer this question from alvaro. After you do so, I would appreciate you taking a moment to answer a few of mine. No attacks, no hounding. Q & A - one person at a time.

 

[screamdreams]

Jon -

You were online for up to a half hour after both of the above replies were posted. I was hoping you'd post an answer to alvaro's question. Hopefully you'll return soon to do so. We'll be waiting, patiently.

 

[SPJ]

I'm curious as well.
How does a blackback produce clowns?
What are the genetics on this animal?
Did you just throw that line in hoping that someone unfamiliar with genetics will buy this animal from you?

Hell, I have a high white ball python I could sell that has a 98% chance of producing albinos. Only $500 shipped for this one. Interested?

BTW, why do you constantly have outrageous claims in your ads? Tame niles, tame gators, ets. That is a bunch of BS. Some newbie is going to buy these thinking they make good pets when they do not.
You can train a gator but you cannot tame a gator!
You can also have a "docile" nile by not keeping it in the correct temps? Do you provide a hot spot of 130 for your niles? I doubt it. Most niles are "tame" until they get into an enclosure with the correct temps. Then they turn into typical niles.

 

[jon1048]

Black Back

Alvaro- I apologize for that add. It was a typo that not even I could understand. I had the add written up as 98% black back and possible het for clown. When I checked out the BOI and saw what I had done I immediately removed that add. Personally an add that bad does not even deserve backing. Again I did not purposely say it was 98% het for clown. I like doing my business over the phone as I am not a good typer "as most of you have all seen."
SPJ- I have all of the correct temps on my tanks as well as basking spots, hide spots and shaded zones. I handle all of the animals and I have my kids handle the animals as often as possible until they are finally "tame". Like I tell everyone "with constant handling and attention even the nastiest animals can become "tame" " As far as crocodilians go, I already addressed that issue. Baby gator’s can be tamed but after about 3ft they become dangerous.
Scream Dreams- I appreciate your understanding and am willing to answer questions under the conditions you have already stated. "no hounding, and no attacks."

Thanks, Jon

 

[screamdreams]

Jon -

I've got numerous questions for you but I won't hit you with all of them at once.

Before I get started though, I read your reply to alvaros question and it just didn't make much sense to me, maybe I'm missing something but you stated that:

he has a 98% chance he will produce clown

that is exactly how it was worded in your ad. Now your explanation is this:

I apologize for that add. It was a typo that not even I could understand. I had the add written up as 98% black back and possible het for clown

That doesn't read like a typo to me, whatsoever. No excuses, and I'm sorry if I sound harsh but there's just no way someone legit in the industry would make an error like that. Did you get any inquiries from that ad?? Do you have copies of your replies prior to acknowledging your "typo"???

Well, here's my question, I'll give you two and you can pick one:

Do you have pics of how you house your animals??? In other words, of your facility???

OR if that one isn't feasable for you to do right now, you were quoted earlier saying:

My hets are real, I buy more then just one. I tend to buy entire clutches at a time. This saves me a lot of money. As far as the hets coming from all around the globe, well that might be true but I have decided to settle down with one breeder that I completely trust in the states

Does this mean you may have doubts about the integrity of your past suppliers, and now that you have ONE breeder that you trust, since his name/guarantee is on the "paperwork" you supply, could you give us his name and contact info???

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[jon1048]

Troys earlier comment

Troy- I just wanted to adress the comment I have quoted you saying below.

Not to have the majority of animals you post for sale in your possession BUT then you say in your bogus ads that you have too many projects going on....that's such a crock of BS. Name me ONE species YOU have personally reproduced in captivity, and don't forget, I know people who know you, so tell the truth.

I will now name all fo teh species I have produced in captivity and the ones I am still reproducing: Niger Uromastyx, Bearded Dragons, Coastal Carpet pythons, Green tree pythons, Burmese pythons, Redfoot tortoises, Sullcatta Tortoises, Yellow Foot Tortoises, normal ball ypthons, Redtail Boas, Kingsnakes and other colubrids. * stuff I am just getting into: Rhino Iguanas and Cuban Iguanas, Rare Chameleons, Emerald tree boas, blue and red hybrid tegus, and alot more as it comes in.

Troy- To tell you the truth I was just a local breeder of Bearded Dragons to begin with, hence the name Bearded Pets. Then I started to breed other animals and only sell locally and occasionally to outside sources in the US. In fact I am new to KS and thought when I began using it that I could rake in an extra few dollars selling what I breed at a retail price. Well after starting like that I decided I would like to broker of a few animals to also bring in more money. I really do not do this whole thing as a living and I only needed some extra cash to support my family. The brokering I did was mostly on animals that require or take up to much space for me to handle. And the advantage to that was that I did not have to take care of it. Also the CB and CBB thing, I wanted to address that issue as well. I sold CB meaning Captive born, and CBB meaning Captive born babys. Like I said I did not know much about the terms you guys used when I first began. All I knew is what requirements the animals need to have and there origins and so forth. I have put days upon days of studying and occasionally field work just to see and study different herps. I did not know much and was not an advid member of the herp community just a person with an interest and deep want to study and help preserve herps world wide, and to tell you the truth I believe this is how I think every single person in the herp community today started out. Just with a heavy interest and the want to either make money or study reptiles. I can not and will not believe that this is not how you yourselves started out. And I think that with this ongoing amount of people knew to the herp community more for there interest or wants to help preserve reptiles in there native habitats or to spread the joy of having a loving herp as a pet rather then just a dog to more homes then one. I think that this society and all of its people will prosper in the end, and with this more people will acquire some new pet to enjoy in there house hold as well as acquiring the knowledge of how to take care of it and how to take care if its native population. Even though I have done nothing dramatic to help animals in there native environment and the ones in captivity that are not being cared for properly I have been trying as hard as possible to do so. I try as hard as possible to educate individuals that think snakes are evil and try to kill them when they see them on the road, I try as hard as I can to stop individuals thinking that there pet iguana is disposable and most of all I have been trying to make people understand what the herp they purchase requires both in attention and nourishment. I apologize for the misunderstandings that keep arising from some of my adds and I apologize for the bad view you have of me. But maybe if we talk this out and you do your Q & A we can both understand one another, and see what my problems are as well as what your problems are with me.
Thanks, Jon

 

[screamdreams]

Don't worry about any of us stealing your supplier...

I'm sure most of us here have our own network of people we are willing to conduct business with, so don't fret.

One more thing, could you please elaborate on this.

I tend to buy entire clutches at a time. This saves me a lot of money

Could you give us any of their names/contact info???
Thanks again!!!

 

[jon1048]

Sorry Troy just saw this post

Qoute:
"That doesn't read like a typo to me, whatsoever. No excuses, and I'm sorry if I sound harsh but there's just no way someone legit in the industry would make an error like that. Did you get any inquiries from that ad?? Do you have copies of your replies prior to acknowledging your "typo"???

Well, here's my question, I'll give you two and you can pick one:

Do you have pics of how you house your animals??? In other words, of your facility???

Troy- That typo as I siad was the worst one yet. It wasnt really a true typo if you know what I mean. I got up and left the comp half way thru the add and when I cam back I typed the rest on the pad and posted it. Thats all I remember doing. I can get you photos of my facility if desired.
Thanks

 

[jon1048]

Eliga Collins

Hi, his name is Eliga Collins. I will give you the contat info personally over the phone or email. I might consider over fauna though. Just let me sleep on it.
Thanks

 

[jon1048]

Complete Clutches

Troy- I purchase entire clutches. Sometimes only 6 other times 8-9 babys. Just depending on the amount of babys in the clutch im purchasing is. I buy an entire clutch of het albinos at a time. However pied I can not do as I would be dishing out more money then I can ever possibly have at a time. When I buy an enitre clutch like maybe two entire clutches he gives me a very very good deal.
Thanks

 

[turtlepimp]

huh?

Jon,so how does all this rate as to posting my Erymnochelys two weeks after my purchase from Zoological and the B.S. story of what they eat?


Andy Sury

 

[jon1048]

To: Turtle Pimp

Andy- I was told that they ate trout chow or pellets, and goldfish. Not just that I also visibly saw goldfish in the picture to top it off. I had figured thats what they ate the most of. Either way I did not just post that they ate goldfish, I was told they did. I already adressed this issue in one of the distant posts. You should check it out a few pages back its labled adressing some questions.
Anyways ill be back tomorow I guess to answer questions
Thanks

 

[Scochoman]

Jon-

OMG I can't believe I missed all this. But anyways I purchased some "het. Albino" balls from you in Feb. The male still hasn't fed and the female has fed for the third time this week. They were scrawney and pet storish. I have kept BP's for over 11 years and have never had a pair as stubborn and slow growing as these. So if your breeder is Eliga Collins where did he get his stock from? And can he verify it? and also the gaurantee of genetics you sent with my snakes that has a supposed picture of the actual snake for indentity purposes aren't even the actual snakes. In fact the pic on both of them is of the same snake. Can you explain this?


Thank You
Scott Vernooy