Inquiry on Golden Serpents...aka Jewell Howard

[Bobby Douglass]

What I have learned here is that pet store prices are higher than wholesale prices. What a surprise.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Now that I've calmed down a little.... had Sean left his initial post as....

....Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with Jewell Howard of Golden Serpents....

I would have been the FIRST ONE to let him know EVERYTHING he wanted to know about Jewell! It's the WAY the statement was written that "slapped me in the face" with anger! Insinuating wrongdoing.... as I said, had Sean stuck with that one sentence.... he would have had a MUCH nicer response from BOTH JEWELL AND I!! He chose his way.... I chose mine!
Now, let me try to explain the Goini debacle.... These are a trio of PURE BORN AND BRED ADULT GOINI'S, PRODUCED BY ONE OF THE MOST WELL-RESPECTED BREEDERS IN THE US (Jim Mendenhaul)! The Male has a FULL COMPLETE BLACK STRIPE DOWN HIS WHOLE SPINE (when was the last time you saw one of those?), one of the Females, we think is a HYPO, because of her VERY REDUCED PATTERN.... and the other Female is one of the LARGEST Females you will ever see! AND ALL THREE ARE PROVEN! In my personal opinion, they are TRULY worth $600-$750 for the trio!! We are selling them as a FAVOR for the breeder (Jim Mendenhaul).... If I had the time (Jim wants a quick sale), I'd ABSOLUTELY put them out for $750!! I think they're worth it! You JUST DON'T SEE THEM LIKE THIS!.... Jewell was being VERY NICE to offer them for (basically) what Jim wanted for them! I just can't do that in my position as a store owner! I ALLOW Jewell to put them on display in the store, using MY electric, MY heat, MY food, MY tanks, MY waterbowls, My space, etc., etc.... That costs MONEY??? Why shouldn't I want to recoup some of it??? If Jewell sells those snakes at the price SHE asked.... I wouldn't even THINK of asking her to pay for the above.... I do it as a PERK for her taking such GREAT care of MY STORE??? I think she's asking WAY too little for those snakes.... and, then to have someone try to talk her down even further.... that's INSULTING! Then, when he doesn't get is way, to come here and pull this crap??? Well, I guess you all see my point.... whether you agree with it, or not, I'm equal-opportunity!.... I call 'em as I see 'em!

....Neil

 

[Sean Belanger]

and, then to have someone try to talk her down even further.... that's INSULTING! Then, when he doesn't get is way, to come here and pull this crap???

Neil. If you ask Jewell, I NEVER asked for a lower price. I NEVER did any bargaining. I informed her that I might be down near Tampa this weekend and ONLY asked ONCE what the price would be without shipping if I picked it up. How is that insulting? How is that not getting my way?

And I understand you are upset with me posting the facts but like I said before, I felt it was necessary since I was making an inquiry due to those two ads. If that was wrong, then so be it.

I know I could have simply asked you any information about Jewell but obviously you are going to say good things about her. I started this post because I wanted OTHER person's experiences with her.

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Sean,

If you truly had started this thread to find out everyone's experience with her you would have worded it differently. Your post was not a request for information on her, but rather a post tyring to insinuate something wrong was going on.

 

[Sean Belanger]

Rob. Maybe I could have worded my initial post differently. It still wouldn't have changed the facts. In my experience, I am not used to seeing the exact same snakes up for sell by two different sellers at two different prices at the same time. If Neil, Jewell, and others want to feel like I was insinuating something wrong was going on, then maybe something was. Why did Neil and Jewell get so defensive about it then? Neil and Jewell could have simply explained how they do business and left it at that. Others could have responded about their experiences with Jewell and as long as I didn't hear anything negative, I most likely would have bought one of the snakes from her. But seeing how both Neil and Jewell have responded to this thread, I will not be doing business with either of them.

 

[Dwight Good]

Sean,
Thanks for the heads up on two people that I should never do business with!! I'd rather get my tacos from a dung heap. Reading the posts and witnessing these two <i>class</i> acts fly off the handle has been a great addition to my day. Neil, Jewell... please add me to your list of customers that you refuse to do business with. Thanks!!

And Sean.. glad to see you are keeping a calm demeanor while the 'clique' so thoroughly tries to make <b>you</b> the bad guy! Maybe a few more will come out of the woodwork and give you a jab or two. And to think.. you got them all riled up over a simple inquiry! Touche!


Dwight Good
-------------------------
The above is my opinion and not something from the side of a cereal box. Read it and weep gently (but not in front of the kids!)

 

[GOLDENSERPENT]

Ok lets try this

sean I think you might be theif or something worse...has anybody here done any business with him???I dont mean anything by it I just want to make sure he is ok to sell my stuff to.


Oh yeah and this dwight person he is unsavory too maybe we should do an inquisition on him also...NOT THAT I MEAN HE IS A UNLAWFUL CHARACTER
I just want to see if they will defend themselves AND IF THEY DO WELL HELL GUYS THEY MUST BE GUILTY
WHO WANTS TO BE FIRST ON THE RACK
OR SHOULD WE USE THE IRON MAIDEN INSTEAD
WHAT A BUNCH A FREAKS

You three cant possibly tell me that if someone accused you of wrong doing you would not defend your self. PLEASE!!!
Also SEAN
I answered ALL your questions that you put to me thoroughly and talked to you on the phone in November when YOU called the SNAKE PIT and YOU knew it was ME and that was the exact day I gave you Andy BARRS phone number.
So you knew for a fact that:
1.we have alot of the same animals
]2.ALL of Neils customers are retail
3. that MOST of mine are wholesale
4. that I MANAGE his store through MY company and take care of his animals and his books AS STATED IN BOTH OF THE EMAILS\ therein lies the association with NEIL . We are NOT married(AS YOU ASKED BEFORE IF WE WERE) NOT DATING THERE ARE NO OTHER ASSOCIATIONS WITH NEILS BUSINESS OTHER THAN THAT OF THE SNAKE PIT AND MY MANAGEMENT OF HIS STORE
I DO KEEP SOME ANIMALS THERE AND DO ALLOW HIM TO LIST THEM AND THIS IS MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL TO THE BOTH OF US
1. HE PAYS THE HEATING BILLS and the FOOD BILLS FOR THE ANIMALS THAT ARE STORED IN HIS SHOP.
2. I GET PAID FOR TAKING CARE OF MY ANIMALS AS WELL AS HIS
3.I GET TO KEEP ALOT MORE ANIMALS DUE TO THE EXTRA SPACE IN MY SMALL BUILDING(WHERE I KEEP MY VENOMOUS REPTILES)
4 NEIL DOES NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR MOST OF HIS REPTILE STOCK UNTIL IT IS SOLD.
5NEIL GETS FREE VETERINARY CARE DUE TO ME BEING THERE(WELL COST OF MEDS ANYWAY)
6 NEIL HAS ACCESS TO MANY MORE SUPPLIERS AND INFORMATION THAN HE HAD BEFORE.
7 WE BOTH HAVE SOMEONE THAT IS HONEST WITH THE OTHER TO KEEP BOTH OUR (SEPARATE)BUSINESS' SAFE AND PROFITABLE.


IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TO BAD!!!!
I HAD NOT SAID OR DONE ANYTHING THAT WAS RUDE OR CRIMINAL TO DESERVE THIS KIND OF TREATMENT TO ANYONE
GOOD GREIF

IF YOU KICK A DOG LONG ENOUGH ITS GOING TO BITE YOU


AND DWIGHT HONEY YES SEAN DID STAND BY CALMLY AND ENJOY WHAT HE THINKS THAT HE DONE HERE BECAUSE HE (LIKE ANY OTHER LITTLE KID) KNOWS THAT THAT'S ALL HE HAD TO DO WAS MAKE THE COMMENTS AND LET IT ROLL.
KINDA LIKE A SMALL ROCK ROLLING DOWN A MOUNTAIN OF SNOW .....EVENTUALLY IT BECOMES AN AVALANCH....
TO ME THATS KINDA SNEAKY IN AND OF ITSELF///
I HAVE NOT GONE OFF THE DEEP END....RATHER THE OPPOSITE
I BELIEVE I HAVE KEPT MYSELF QUITE INTELLIGENT AND COHERENT THROUGH THIS WHOLE THING.


TO THE CLIQUE COMMENT...
I DO NOT BELONG TO CLIQUES UNLESS YOU CALL BEING A CHRISTIAN A CLIQUE(THEN GO AHEAD AND SAY IT) I DO NOT
PLAY KIDDY GAMES AND POINT FINGERS AND LAUGH
I DO NOT RUIN(OR TRY TO) RUIN PEOPLES LIVES BECAUSE OF SOME PETTY BULLCRAP.... I BASICALLY MIND MY OWN BUSINESS
THAT IS PRETTY EVIDENT SEEING THAT THIS MONTH IS THE MOST I HAVE EVER POSTED THE ENTIRE TIME I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER
AND THE MAJORITY OF IT IS IN MY OWN DEFENCE
YOU CORNER ME I FIGHT!!!! PERIOD AND THAT IS HUMAN NATURE AND LAST TIME I CHECKED I WAS A HUMAN NOT PERFECT(BY ANY MEANS) BUT I TRY AND DONT BLAME OTHERS FOR MY SHORTCOMINGS.
JEWELL

 

[Sean Belanger]

I answered ALL your questions that you put to me thoroughly and talked to you on the phone in November when YOU called the SNAKE PIT and YOU knew it was ME and that was the exact day I gave you Andy BARRS phone number.

Jewell. I have never called you or Neil on the phone. You sent Andy Barr's phone number to me in an email.

Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2002 14:24:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "j howard" <[email protected]> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Message about: CBB ALBINO FLA KING AND A CBB GOINI BOTH FEMALES 85.00 SHIPPED EACH
To: "Sean B" <[email protected]>


> > Sean
> > I just talked to Andy and he said you may call
> him.
> > His number is XXX-XXX-XXXX.
> > Thanks
> > Jewell

 

[Dwight Good]

<i>Oh yeah and this dwight person he is unsavory too maybe we should do an inquisition on him also...NOT THAT I MEAN HE IS A UNLAWFUL CHARACTER
I just want to see if they will defend themselves AND IF THEY DO WELL HELL GUYS THEY MUST BE GUILTY
WHO WANTS TO BE FIRST ON THE RACK
OR SHOULD WE USE THE IRON MAIDEN INSTEAD
WHAT A BUNCH A FREAKS </i>

Now I am attacked?? LOL. You either have a small foot or a really big mouth.....

Go ahead and do an inquiry on me. I have tons of enemies out there..... (you know who you are, come on down... your the next contestant on 'the dung is deep'!)

<i>You three cant possibly tell me that if someone accused you of wrong doing you would not defend your self. PLEASE!!! </i>

Weird, I read a simple inquiry as the start of this entire dungheap of a thread and then out of the blue... 'Who let the dogs out.. who .. who ... who.... who... who...'

<i>AND DWIGHT HONEY </i>

Honey???? Oh no... now look what you've done!!!

<img src="http://www.kingsnake.com/obsoleta/images/vomit.gif">

<i>TO THE CLIQUE COMMENT...
I DO NOT BELONG TO CLIQUES </i>

Umm.... <i>'honey' </i>that wasn't directed at you! Guess that one buzzed right over you. I was referring to the folks that jumped to your (and Neil's) defense over this simple inquiry that opened the gates of hell.

Dwight Good
-----------------------------
¡Uno! ¡Dos! ¡Tres! (Nice attempt at saving face!)

The above comments are my opinions and have no factual basis whatsoever. Can I join the clique?

 

[GOLDENSERPENT]

DWIGHT

LMAO
THAT WAS FUNNY!!!

BUT DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN ABOUT SOMEONE SAYING SOMETHING BAD ABOUT YOU EVEN IF IT IS AN INFERENCE?
YOU IMMEDIATELY GET DEFENSIVE.



AND SEAN..
YOUR RIGHT I DID EMAIL THE NUMBER BUT YOU DID CALL ME AND I WOULD NOT GIVE IT TO YOU UNTIL I GOT PERMISSION.

 

[Sean Belanger]

AND SEAN..
YOUR RIGHT I DID EMAIL THE NUMBER BUT YOU DID CALL ME AND I WOULD NOT GIVE IT TO YOU UNTIL I GOT PERMISSION..

Jewell. Like I said before. I have NEVER called you. I have only corresponded with you through emails.

 

[GOLDENSERPENT]

SEAN

SEAN
CHECK YOUR NOVEMBER PHONE BILL...YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED THAT YOU FORGOT...KINDA LIKE YOU FORGOT THAT ME AND NEIL
SOMETIMES HAD THE SAME ANIMALS AND THAT I MANAGED HIS SHOP
YOUR MEMORY IS AS BAD AS NEILS.
ANYWAY I REALLY DONT THINK THAT MR BARR WOULD APPRECIATE YOU POSTING HIS PRIVATE PHONE NUMBER UP HERE FOR EVERY ONE TO SEE WITHOUT PERMISSION
THAT IS VERY RUDE AND UNTHOUGHTFUL

 

[Sean Belanger]

SEAN
CHECK YOUR NOVEMBER PHONE BILL...YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED THAT YOU FORGOT...

Tell you what...tell me the exact date I supposedly called you. I have my phone bill in front of me and your phone number is NOT on it.

And, how could I have called you in November when you didn't send me your phone number until Dec 12th?

Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:18:34 -0800 (PST)
From: "j howard" <[email protected]> | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: Message about: 1.2 CBB ADULT PROVEN BREEDING GROUP GOINI KINGS PICTURES!
To: "Sean B" <[email protected]>




Sean yes you can pick her up. What day will you be down here?

I will not be at the pit sunday but will be at Mr Mendenhalls helping with surgery on a carpet python.

But you are welcome to call me on my cell phone (352-XXX-XXXX) when you get close to ocala.

Cash is fine.

Jewell

My mistake on posting Andy Barr's phone number. I apologize for that.

 

[Dwight Good]

<i>BUT DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN ABOUT SOMEONE SAYING SOMETHING BAD ABOUT YOU EVEN IF IT IS AN INFERENCE?
YOU IMMEDIATELY GET DEFENSIVE. </i>

You call that defensive?? Maybe you missed my 'LOL'... I was mostly amused by your comments. Any defensiveness in my posts were probably due to the fact that I resent an innocent poster getting raked through the coals for no reason. Let's say this <b>WAS</b> all a master plan of Sean's to discredit you or Neil. All you had to do was let your loyal customers speak up for your ethics and poof this thread would have eventually died a horrible death. No need to jump on the forum and go off on a potential customer! (even if you didn't want his business) Siskel and Ebert <u>would</u> have given you both four thumbs down!!

I really don't care to keep this 'tit for tat' game up any longer. Hopefully the good readers of this forum will make their own calls as to who gets their business. The way you and Neil have handled yourselves in this situation has told me all that I need to know.

TTFN!!

Dwight Good
----------------------------
This post should be considered pure unadulterated dung as recommended by four out of five compost afficionados. Thanks for taking a sniff.

 

[Rainbowboaman]

Jewell,
Im amazed how many times you can shoot yourself in the foot & still be able to walk.

 

[JasonBrennan]

I have only one question, and it is directed at Dwight.

What does TTFN mean?? Just curious, never saw that one before.

Jason Brennan

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

T a

T a

F or

N ow

 

[JasonBrennan]

Ah, I see. Thanks Rob.

Jason Brennan

 

[Seamus Haley]

I was referring to the folks that jumped to your (and Neil's) defense over this simple inquiry that opened the gates of hell.

All you had to do was let your loyal customers speak up for your ethics and poof this thread would have eventually died a horrible death.

Is it just me or are those statements somewhat contradictory Dwight?

You pretty much flat out state that anyone who deffended Neil or Jewell's ethics was a "clique" and then a few posts later, state that all they should have done was allow people to come onto the board to deffend their ethics...

I know it was on a seperate page of the thread but they do both come up when you write a response (or at least did for me and my post is several behind yours) so you really have no reason to say such contradictory things and pretty much blowing whatever valid points there were to your argument.

I think that, outside of myself, everyone who posted in Neil and Jewells deffense has actually done buisness with them. While I haven't sent them money, I have talked to Neil via e-mail about a few potential purchases, even knowing his dislike for window shoppers because I don't have PayPal, I have seen the way they both conduct themselves on this board and I have seen pictures of Neil's animals... Further I have seen the support that they both get from a great number of people who I have nothing but the utmost respect for. I've read and seen and heard dozens, perhaps even hundreds of supportive comments for the Snake Pit and everyone associated with it, if my post stating essentially the same thing as your second quote there was somehow the result of a BOI Cult (I thought we were supposed to be worshiping Ritchie, but I figured I'd skip that for now and just recant on my death bed allowing me into BOI Heaven) then so be it I guess.

I've asked this a few times before on threads where that phrase has come up and I'll ask it again here for you...

Is it impossible that there are just a number of people who share the same ideals, morals and to some degree, viewpoints?

What about that concept seems so foreign to you? That people may all look, independantly and with the greatest amount of objectivity possible while still remaining human, at the same situation and come to the same or similar conclusions... Why do so many people seem to think that it's the result of something else? By your seeming logic, nobody could ever be convicted of a crime in court unless the entire Jury were made up of the victim's best friends, your assertations that there is anything outside of a mutually compatable viewpoint and perhaps some buisness dealings connecting the majority of posters on this board is ludicrous.

You disagree that there was anything overtly nasty or vindictive sounding about the initial post, that's fine, you are, as everyone is, entitled to your own opinion and the ability to voice it. Many people seem to have read just as much as Jewell and Neil did based on the manner that the post was worded, especially after it has come to light that Sean already knew and had spoken to Jewell over an extended period of time.

There is an enormous emotional insinuation that there is something immoral going on based on their both posting the same snakes each for their own prices. There is nothing wrong with that whatsoever, it doesn't happen as commonly with reptiles but take, for instance, large mammals; frequently brokered and frequently the same animal may be on the lists of multiple individuals. Each og those individuals has the price they must pay for the animal and then they add whatever they feel they should make as a profit ontop of that. Some may have the same price, most probably won't, each seeing a slightly different value to their own efforts to getting it sold or their own overhead for the selling. Such is the exact case with Neil and Jewell, she analyzed the situation and decided that she didn't really need an enormous (or virtually any) profit off the potential sale, Neil decided that he may as well make a few bucks because, as I'm sure anyone who has ever owned or done the books for a retail pet shop knows, the overhead is enormous and the profit margin extremely thin. There is nothing immoral about either of their descisions whatsoever, in my opinion of course... They really didn't respond all that badly either, for Neil, the random function of his caps lock key is old news and for Jewell... well, it really did read as if he suspected she was a crook, if that isn't justification for being a bit upset, I'm not too sure what is. It isn't as if she threatened to meet him at a show because she's an eleven foot tall gamma irradiated scientist constantly getting into fights with the US military and patching up her purple pants after she gets irritated, she reacted fairly well considering. The further posts of people stating they wouldn't do buisness with her were loaded with barbs and insults and petty wisecracks which is, again, pretty reasonable justification for being a bit annoyed.

I'm not the only one who has said this on this thread... the wording of the initial inquirey seemed loaded with a number of insinuations, people can easily say something without actually saying it just by altering their wording. What I personally got out of the initial post was that Sean had never so much as hear of Golden Serpents, had no idea who she was, thought she might be upo to something immoral or illegal because of the identical ads and wanted someone to come forth with experiences, probably hoping for some negative ones... Now, it turned out that he's had a fairly good amount of communication with both Jewell and Neil although now there is contention over a phone call... but that clearly shows that he wasn't oblivious to her existance and, based off the wording... Yes, it does SEEM as if there had to be some motive to post that using the wording and giving the impressions that he did.

I suppose it's possible that I just read too much into the way the initial post was phrased but if I did, I'm certainly not the only one, many others have echoed those sentiments and, if it really was entirely innocent, I do feel that he should apologize for the impression that was given, inadvertant or not.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Seamus.... this statement of yours....

....I have talked to Neil via e-mail about a few potential purchases, even knowing his dislike for window shoppers because I don't have PayPal....

IS OLD NEWS!! After all our private conversations and emails, I would trust you with anything! If you EVER see anything I have that you might want... all I would require is for you to tell me you're sending me a PERSONAL CHECK, and the animal would go out THE NEXT DAY.... BEFORE I GOT YOUR CHECK! That's how I treat friends!! Comprende Compadre??

And YES! I think Sean owes Jewell AND myself an apology.... BIG TIME!

....Neil