Inquiry on Het Pieds from Ace Reptiles

[MikeCurtin]

Hi everyone. I just traded some female Womas and a JCP for 1.2 100% Het Pied Ball Pythons from Tony Copertino of Ace Reptiles. I got a photo ID signed with a guarantee of genetics with each animal and received an e-mail w/ pics of the supposed parents.

Here is my only concern...I just saw an ad for the Womas I traded. These snakes were traded as a gift for his wife, and now are up for sale 2 weeks later. My husbandry is top-notch, but any new acquisition should be quarantined for a minimum of 3-6 months IMO before being resold or introduced into one's collection. This causes me to question Tony's character. A guarantee is only as good as the man behind it.

I will contact him regarding this matter, but has anyone had any dealings with him either positive or negative. I'd like some input before trying to prove these balls next season. Thanks.

Mike Curtin

 

[Rainbowboaman]

wow! I have a feeling this one isn't going to be pretty.

 

[hhmoore]

Whose name is on the paperwork? (I don't want to ASSume that it is the seller's)

I just want to be clear on this...you had no reservations about dealing with this person before, but, because he is advertising animals he just received, now you question his integrity (and, therefore, the genetics of the animals you received)?

On one level, I can certainly understand questioning the genetics if somebody's business practices become questionable...on the other - well, I hate to be the one to tell you that A LOT of people sell animals without quarantining them for 3-6 months.

Why post an inquiry here, after your transaction, instead of contacting the seller to voice your concerns?

 

[MikeCurtin]

The name on the paperwork is the seller's, as he says he produced them. The reason I posted here is for peace of mind more than anything else. Looking through past threads, I've seen that there are some people that have positive things to say about him (I've also been privately contacted by someone who had not so nice things to say).

I feel that knowing what kind of dealings others have had with him in the past may help me know how to best approach him. Others' experiences may mean the difference between asking him why things didn't work out w/ the Womas, and asking him if he passed normals off as hets to turn a quick profit. One person has raised a red flag (privately), so I feel optimistic.

Don't get me wrong....I'm not here to sling any mud, and I will be contacting him. This is a way for me to feel better (or worse) about a deal that's already been done. If I'd posted here and had a bunch of red flags flying up all over the place, I'd be concerned. If I find folks who've had positive dealings with him in the past, I'd be feeling more comfortable about his genetics guarantee.

Thanks,
Mike Curtin

 

[jmartin104]

I really, really try to avoid threads like this so I will preface this by saying "these are my experiences, good, bad or otherwise."

ACE Reptiles and I passed a few emails for a trade. He had a guitar and I had some snakes to trade. I researched the guitar and found the price (online) to be well below what he was asking. I asked him about the price - why it was so high and that I found the same guitar brand new for a fraction of his used price. Yes, I know. He can ask whatever he wants. That's not my beef.

He sent me an email with the HTML document pasted into the email for the online guitar ad. The price showed what he said he paid. I had just checked the exact same page only the day before and it was at the fraction of the price I originally emailed him about. That got me thinking - how am I seeing 2 different prices on the same page? I pulled up the URL and found the low price I found earlier - as expected. I pulled up his email with the pasted HTML and found the high price. He told me he just copied and pasted from the internet. The only way I can think of that the price became increased again is that it was changed when the HTML was copied into the email body - if so, this would clearly indicate fraud and deception. I'm not saying he has done anything wrong, but given some off-line emails from others about Anthony Caponetti, I have decided to steer clear.

I keep ALL emails if anyone is interested.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I just received an e-mail from Anthony Copertino letting me know that the reason for the sale was due to the fact that the snakes had bitten his wife and they no longer wanted them. He seems eager to resolve the matter.

In addition, I was also contacted by someone who had recent dealings with ACE Reptiles and felt that an ad posted by Anthony a couple days after their trade was at best suspicious.

I'm going to continue to be in contact with both parties off of this forum and hopefully I'm just being paranoid. Whatever the results, I'll repost here and hopefully I'll be able to tell everyone about my confidence in ACE Reptiles and Anthony Copertino.

Mike Curtin

 

[The BoidSmith]

Whose name is on the paperwork? (I don't want to ASSume that it is the seller's)

I just want to be clear on this...you had no reservations about dealing with this person before, but, because he is advertising animals he just received, now you question his integrity (and, therefore, the genetics of the animals you received)?

On one level, I can certainly understand questioning the genetics if somebody's business practices become questionable...on the other - well, I hate to be the one to tell you that A LOT of people sell animals without quarantining them for 3-6 months.

Why post an inquiry here, after your transaction, instead of contacting the seller to voice your concerns?

I'm in agreement with Harald here. For all we know he maybe even quarantined the womas at his place before selling them. Maybe some circumstances came up and his wife decided the womas were not really what she liked.

One thing I agree with you though. Where there's a pattern of conduct there is a concern. You are asking for input to know if someone else has had any experience with him before "jumping the gun". That's one thing that has been requested in the past from posters that do exactly the opposite and then have to apologize.

Can you post the pictures of the heteros you purchased and those from the supposed breeders? There are people in this site that can tell you if the dates when the pictures were taken match the possibility that the offspring came from that pair.

Good luck.

 

[MikeCurtin]

These are the pics I recieved of the Hets with birth dates of 9/10/06 for 1.1 and 2/3/06 for 0.1. Also is a pic I received of the Pied Sire of both clutches and the normal DAM of the Sep clutch (input on this last pic appreciated esp.).

Like I said, I'd like to get some input on others' experiences, but do not want to portray anyone to be a bad guy without 110% confidence that he may have done something wrong. I'm usually a very trusting guy unless someone gives me a reason not to be....That wasn't an open invitation to scammers... LOL!

Also, I'm going to keep most of the discussions off of this forum until I know exactly what transpired (if anything). Even appearance of impropriety could damage someone's reputation unnecessarily, and that's not something I'd like to do to a "good guy". Don't wanna wind up like this guy

Mike Curtin

 

[The BoidSmith]

That's a very nice looking male pied!

 

[Otter_23]

I really, really try to avoid threads like this so I will preface this by saying "these are my experiences, good, bad or otherwise."

ACE Reptiles and I passed a few emails for a trade. He had a guitar and I had some snakes to trade. I researched the guitar and found the price (online) to be well below what he was asking. I asked him about the price - why it was so high and that I found the same guitar brand new for a fraction of his used price. Yes, I know. He can ask whatever he wants. That's not my beef.

He sent me an email with the HTML document pasted into the email for the online guitar ad. The price showed what he said he paid. I had just checked the exact same page only the day before and it was at the fraction of the price I originally emailed him about. That got me thinking - how am I seeing 2 different prices on the same page? I pulled up the URL and found the low price I found earlier - as expected. I pulled up his email with the pasted HTML and found the high price. He told me he just copied and pasted from the internet. The only way I can think of that the price became increased again is that it was changed when the HTML was copied into the email body - if so, this would clearly indicate fraud and deception. I'm not saying he has done anything wrong, but given some off-line emails from others about Anthony Caponetti, I have decided to steer clear.

I keep ALL emails if anyone is interested.

I think that it is important to point out that this thread is about Tony Capertino of A.C.E. and not Anthony Caponetto of AC reptiles. Very similar but I believe they are different people and different companies.

 

[jmartin104]

I think that it is important to point out that this thread is about Tony Capertino of A.C.E. and not Anthony Caponetto of AC reptiles. Very similar but I believe they are different people and different companies.

You are absolutely correct - My aplogies Anthony Caponetto. The Tony I refer to is ACE Reptiles, email: [email protected]. xxx to avoid posting his full email.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I have contacted Tony via a detailed e-mail noting my concerns and backing them up with accounts from others in the hobby who've had dealings with him. I'll post it when I have a little more info. Till then, anyone else with experiences with his hets, please post or contact me privately. Thanks.
Mike Curtin

 

[MikeCurtin]

Tony Copertino: A.C.E. Reptiles

I recently posted an inquiry about Tony Copertino of A.C.E. Reptiles because I began to have ethical questions about him. Short version is that he posted 2 womas for sale after I traded them and a JCP to him for 1.2 "100% Het Pied" balls. The lack of quarantine protocol and quick resale of snakes aquired as a Christmas gift for his wife raised a red flag. He is aware of this thread and sent me the following e-mail:

Hey Mike. I see you posted a thread about me on Fauna. And even though it says from you that you are going to get a hold of me concerning the womas, you didn't. So I just thought I would touch base with you about it. The only reason I listed the womas for sale is because my wife was bitten by both of them, all 3 of them to be exact, the JCP too. I personally do not mind getting bit, but it does bother her a lot. She was bitten in the face before by a rather large blood python and has since obviously been interested in getting bit again. I have had womas before and have never really had a problem with them, but she was bitten and I asked her what she wanted to do and she told me to post them. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way by doing so, but please get back to me and lets hope we can resolve it. Talk to you soon.

Thanks,
Tony
A.C.E. Reptiles
[email protected]
772-626-9590

I sent him the following in response:

Sat: 12/29
Hi Tony-
I'm usually very cautious when dealing with new people, especially when concerning non visual hets. As you see on my post, I was just checking to see what opinions others had on their dealings with you....I was in no way trying to bad mouth you, but rather looking for some reassurance....I'll give you a call later today (Sunday) to clear the air if that's cool. The only reason I hadn't called yet was because I was waiting to see a few more threads...the ones I had found so far have all been positive, though....with one exception we'll speak about tomorrow.
Mike

Wed: 1/2/08
Hey Tony-

Sorry I have yet to call you, but I've been a bit hectic the past couple days w/ New Year's and all. I'll give you a quick rundown of my concerns and hopefully we'll speak about it tomorrow.

When I saw the Womas I'd traded you up for sale, the first thing I thought was that it made no sense to sell snakes you'd only had for less than 2 weeks...especially for less than the value of the snakes you'd traded for them (the JCP balanced the trade, so that may be a moot point, but still seemed odd to me). In addition, the ad never mentioned that they were received in trade or how long they had been in your possession. I don't know what you may have disclosed to prospective buyers, but 2 weeks is not long enough for even minimal quarantine procedures. Your ad raised an ethical red flag for me...nothing personal (I had no reason to question you prior to this).

I posted on the Fauna BOI for reassurance from others who've had dealings with you. I've read a couple positive things, but have also been contacted by a few people who haven't been so positive. One post referred to a guitar which the price was jacked up on (according to him, in a potentially fraudulent way). I was also contacted privately by a member who had backed out of a deal with you on a Het Albino Blood after he questioned you for allegedly giving him and his friend conflicting information on the same snake, then dropping the price dramatically after being questioned about it.

Lastly, and that which causes me most concern, is the person I was put in contact with who recently traded you several normals and possible hets. He claims that within days of the trade, you had the same # and size animals advertised as 100% het pieds and 100% het albinos. Because they were normals, he did not keep photo ID's of the animals, but when shown the pics of the animals I got from you, he said they looked familiar. He was also very clear about the fact that he could not be positive, and that he was reluctant to post on the BOI in a negative manner which could damage the reputation of a legitimate breeder. If you read my thread, I'm sure you'll see that this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid as well.

I hope to hear from you soon, and above all, I hope to be able to go on the Fauna BOI and post about the way everything was cleared up and how any doubts or concerns I've had were unwarranted. Please do what you can to resolve this, including sending pics of the male pied with other females (I remember you commenting on what a prolific breeder he has been). Thanks in advance. I hope you understand my concerns.

Best regards,
Mike Curtin

The Wed e-mail was sent in the early afternoon, and when I called Tony today, Thursday, he told me he had yet to check his e-mail which although unlikely for someone with snakes for sale and waiting to be contacted by someone who has questioned his integrity on a public forum, is possible. I gave him a quick rundown of what some on this forum have contacted me about privately and asked him to check his e-mail for a more detailed explanation. I then asked him to forward me any pics of his Pied male with any other females and that I would drop the matter. He seemed aloof and unconcerned at best (If someone had called my character into question like this, I would be defending myself and backing it up with whatever proof I could muster). This phone call was around Noon.

After not receiving any e-mail or communication by around 4pm, I sent him another e-mail to save him the time and trouble of going through old files etc.:

Thurs: 1/3/08
Hey Tony-
Instead of trying to sort through old breeding pics, etc. If you send me a picture of your visual Piebald Male next to an index card w/ today's date, I will accept the fact that you have the required ingredients to produce 100% hets, and will take you on your word that they are indeed what I received. Thanks and I hope you don't feel offended in any way.
Regards,
Mike Curtin

As of this typing on Friday, 1/4 at 12am, I have received no photos, documentation, denial, or defense on his part. With the exeption of respectfully asking the opinions of others, I have tried to keep this out of the public forum and have been slow (IMO) to jump to any conclusions about this. I know he has the capabilities of providing the pics I have requested, with the possible exception of the actual pied male being in his possession. If I am proven wrong about this, I will recant and apologize, but until that day, I urge all to be cautious when dealing with Mr. Copertino. I feel that any honest breeder would have been more proactive when confronted with this situation.

Anyone interested in reading the original thread, here is the link:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107227

Anyone who has contacted me privately regarding Mr.Copertino, I ask you to come forward and post here, as I will not post your words as hearsay and/or without your permission.

Thank-you,
Mike Curtin

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I recently posted an inquiry about Tony Copertino of A.C.E. Reptiles because I began to have ethical questions about him. Short version is that he posted 2 womas for sale after I traded them and a JCP to him for 1.2 "100% Het Pied" balls. The lack of quarantine protocol and quick resale of snakes aquired as a Christmas gift for his wife raised a red flag. He is aware of this thread and sent me the following e-mail:

Hey Mike. I see you posted a thread about me on Fauna. And even though it says from you that you are going to get a hold of me concerning the womas, you didn't. So I just thought I would touch base with you about it. The only reason I listed the womas for sale is because my wife was bitten by both of them, all 3 of them to be exact, the JCP too. I personally do not mind getting bit, but it does bother her a lot. She was bitten in the face before by a rather large blood python and has since obviously been interested in getting bit again. I have had womas before and have never really had a problem with them, but she was bitten and I asked her what she wanted to do and she told me to post them. I'm sorry if I offended you in any way by doing so, but please get back to me and lets hope we can resolve it. Talk to you soon.

Thanks,
Tony
A.C.E. Reptiles
[email protected]
772-626-9590

I sent him the following in response:

Sat: 12/29
Hi Tony-
I'm usually very cautious when dealing with new people, especially when concerning non visual hets. As you see on my post, I was just checking to see what opinions others had on their dealings with you....I was in no way trying to bad mouth you, but rather looking for some reassurance....I'll give you a call later today (Sunday) to clear the air if that's cool. The only reason I hadn't called yet was because I was waiting to see a few more threads...the ones I had found so far have all been positive, though....with one exception we'll speak about tomorrow.
Mike

Wed: 1/2/08
Hey Tony-

Sorry I have yet to call you, but I've been a bit hectic the past couple days w/ New Year's and all. I'll give you a quick rundown of my concerns and hopefully we'll speak about it tomorrow.

When I saw the Womas I'd traded you up for sale, the first thing I thought was that it made no sense to sell snakes you'd only had for less than 2 weeks...especially for less than the value of the snakes you'd traded for them (the JCP balanced the trade, so that may be a moot point, but still seemed odd to me). In addition, the ad never mentioned that they were received in trade or how long they had been in your possession. I don't know what you may have disclosed to prospective buyers, but 2 weeks is not long enough for even minimal quarantine procedures. Your ad raised an ethical red flag for me...nothing personal (I had no reason to question you prior to this).

I posted on the Fauna BOI for reassurance from others who've had dealings with you. I've read a couple positive things, but have also been contacted by a few people who haven't been so positive. One post referred to a guitar which the price was jacked up on (according to him, in a potentially fraudulent way). I was also contacted privately by a member who had backed out of a deal with you on a Het Albino Blood after he questioned you for allegedly giving him and his friend conflicting information on the same snake, then dropping the price dramatically after being questioned about it.

Lastly, and that which causes me most concern, is the person I was put in contact with who recently traded you several normals and possible hets. He claims that within days of the trade, you had the same # and size animals advertised as 100% het pieds and 100% het albinos. Because they were normals, he did not keep photo ID's of the animals, but when shown the pics of the animals I got from you, he said they looked familiar. He was also very clear about the fact that he could not be positive, and that he was reluctant to post on the BOI in a negative manner which could damage the reputation of a legitimate breeder. If you read my thread, I'm sure you'll see that this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid as well.

I hope to hear from you soon, and above all, I hope to be able to go on the Fauna BOI and post about the way everything was cleared up and how any doubts or concerns I've had were unwarranted. Please do what you can to resolve this, including sending pics of the male pied with other females (I remember you commenting on what a prolific breeder he has been). Thanks in advance. I hope you understand my concerns.

Best regards,
Mike Curtin

The Wed e-mail was sent in the early afternoon, and when I called Tony today, Thursday, he told me he had yet to check his e-mail which although unlikely for someone with snakes for sale and waiting to be contacted by someone who has questioned his integrity on a public forum, is possible. I gave him a quick rundown of what some on this forum have contacted me about privately and asked him to check his e-mail for a more detailed explanation. I then asked him to forward me any pics of his Pied male with any other females and that I would drop the matter. He seemed aloof and unconcerned at best (If someone had called my character into question like this, I would be defending myself and backing it up with whatever proof I could muster). This phone call was around Noon.

After not receiving any e-mail or communication by around 4pm, I sent him another e-mail to save him the time and trouble of going through old files etc.:

Thurs: 1/3/08
Hey Tony-
Instead of trying to sort through old breeding pics, etc. If you send me a picture of your visual Piebald Male next to an index card w/ today's date, I will accept the fact that you have the required ingredients to produce 100% hets, and will take you on your word that they are indeed what I received. Thanks and I hope you don't feel offended in any way.
Regards,
Mike Curtin

As of this typing on Friday, 1/4 at 12am, I have received no photos, documentation, denial, or defense on his part. With the exeption of respectfully asking the opinions of others, I have tried to keep this out of the public forum and have been slow (IMO) to jump to any conclusions about this. I know he has the capabilities of providing the pics I have requested, with the possible exception of the actual pied male being in his possession. If I am proven wrong about this, I will recant and apologize, but until that day, I urge all to be cautious when dealing with Mr. Copertino. I feel that any honest breeder would have been more proactive when confronted with this situation.

Anyone interested in reading the original thread, here is the link:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107227

Anyone who has contacted me privately regarding Mr.Copertino, I ask you to come forward and post here, as I will not post your words as hearsay and/or without your permission.

Thank-you,
Mike Curtin

First it is important to note that making separate threads about the same person and same transaction on the BOI is not acceptable. This should have been posted on the thread you already started. This thread will more than likely be merged with the other.

Secondly, I can understand your concerns about hets and a lot of the proof that you seek really should come into play before you purchase them from unknown sellers.

What I don't quite get is the fact that you're so upset and concerned about him selling the snakes he received from you. If he is reselling them and not telling people he bred them, it really isn't your business any more. As far as the quarantine goes you do not have any knowledge of how he is housing them.
Personally, I would hold any animals that I received in trade to make sure they are healthy before ever considering selling them to someone else.

If he is being honest within his advertisement of the snakes, it is up to the buyer to quarantine the animals if they decide to purchase them.
It does seem like he is flipping snakes but that alone doesn't qualify him as a bad guy or warrant a thread on the BOI. There are many resellers within the community that are perfectly honest.

The questions regarding the possible hets that he recently purchased before selling you 100% hets would be more of a red flag for me than anything else.
But the person that sold them to him would have to be able to identify the ones you have as the same snakes to know anything for sure at this time.

Tony, if you read this thread I would think you would want to put up current pictures of your breeders to ease some concerns from your customer.

 

[MikeCurtin]

Hi Dennis-

First off, I apologize for posting 2 threads about the same person/transaction. This was an error on my part which won't happen again.

Secondly, as I said in both my thread and e-mail, the quick resale raised a red flag...nothing more. Why trade $1500 worth of snakes for $1400 worth of snakes only to "flip" them? Once I inquired about others' experiences, I received some information privately from a few people on this site which raised my concerns further, at which time I contacted Tony. This is also the reason I asked others to come forward and post here. After I receive permission from these individuals, I will post their e-mails as well.

Lastly, I have yet to flat out refer to him as a bad guy, but rather posted this thread with a warning. I feel that I absolutely should have researched better beforehand as you've suggested. This is why I mentioned to "use caution". If what I have been told through private contacts after my original post, I had known initially, I wouldn't have done business with him. This has not been an attempt to "slam" him, but rather bring my experience to the public's eye so that others may do the research for themselves that I neglected. I'm sure I won't have a definitive answer till I breed these snakes.

I have sent Tony a link to this new thread and invited him to contact me and/or post here to resolve this. I think I've been pretty fair and Tony hasn't made any attempt to ease my concerns about his hets as of yet. His e-mail contact was about the resale, and if that was indeed my concern, the matter would have been over then.

Regards,
Mike Curtin

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Why trade $1500 worth of snakes for $1400 worth of snakes only to "flip" them?

Well, if you produced the snakes you are trading and want to acquire ones you aren't working with it wouldn't be such a bad deal. As for reselling them I don't have a clue except for the reasons that you posted from him, which seems far-fetched.
I would be more curious about why someone that is producing their own hets would bother with buying possibles from others. Particularly when that other person states they believe the snakes you received might be them.

 

[MikeCurtin]

These were my thoughts, and as of this typing on Friday, 1/4 at 10pm, still no word.

I feel this forum could be a useful tool for laying everything out on the table and allowing people to respond. Unfortunately, there are some who are concerned about this discussion degenerating into an online fight. We shouldn't wait till someone is totally screwed before bringing suspicious activity to the public's eye in a responsible way, which I have attempted to do.

As I have stated, Tony Copertino has been e-mailed a link to this thread, and has been asked for 1 current dated pic of his Pied male breeder. He has chosen not to respond to neither this post, my e-mails, nor the phone conversation we had, so I figure I'm beat. I have no concrete evidence of wrongdoing, but if someone questioned either my animals or my integrity the way I have done with A.C.E. Reptiles, I would e-mail about a dozen pictures to clear up any doubt as well as a request/DEMAND for a written public apology.

Barring any new information, this will probably be my last post in this matter. Again, I ask anyone who has had either positive or negative experiences with Mr. Copertino to post in a civil manner their experiences, which others may draw from.

Thanks again,
Mike Curtin

 

[RJK890]

Good Experience

Fauna,
I went to Tony's home tonight to complete a trade deal. I got a beautiful .1 Albino that is much better looking in person than the ad photo. Does that count as a misrepresented animal ?...lol

While at his home he showed me some of his animals. All of his cages were spotless. There were no mites, sheds, crap or urinates anywhere. The Womas and JCP were being quarantined, and are housed in a separate room from his personal collection(family pets.) From what I understand his established collection is not kept at his residence but housed at a separate location(as is mine.)

Mike,
I honestly do not see how a guy advertising some Womas for sale before quarantining them for an acceptable time period to you or I, brings his ethics or integrity into question. He never stated that he produced the Womas or had them in his collection for any length of time, did he?
Are you the one who initiated your trade deal? You also did an inquiry on him before completing your deal. Now here you are posting a bad guy thread demanding (more)pics of an animal that is 1/2 way across the state on a breeding loan, with an index card with todays date on it, in a public forum, or else what? He's a bad guy... I would have no problem dealing with Tony/Ace Reptiles again in the future. You on the other hand I am not too sure of.

Thanks,
Rob Kelly

 

[ravensgait]

Rob did you mention this thread to him? Did you happen to see the male in question?? Randy

 

[MikeCurtin]

Rob,
Please let me be clear. I never called Tony a bad guy. I simply called into question some "100% Hets" he traded me after I noticed activity which I considered suspicious. Tony may be a great guy, but that doesn't change the fact that he had ample opportunity to provide any additional pics of his male pied breeder which he told me was so prolific. I find it strange that he hasn't been able to do so. I also find it strange that after I spoke to him on Wed asking if he had more photos, this is the first I've heard of his pied being out on loan.
This thread started out as nothing more as an inquiry and I was contacted by several people who shared my concern through their own experiences. Tony responded to my ad and was good to deal with. However, as soon as I questioned him about his hets, he stopped returning my e-mails. I may have insulted him, but he has nothing to defend his animals.
Lastly, the balls I received from Tony are nice and healthy...I question nothing but the genetics. If you chose not to deal with me, I'd understand. If you did, however, and had doubts/concerns about my animals, I guarantee I'd back it up to your satisfaction.
Mike Curtin