Intense Herpetoculture - Any feedback?

[Jim O]

Just an FYI: Arachnoboards does have their own "BOI" type forum.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=8

This entire bad situation is just really distressing to me. I am sure though that it is much more distressing to those that are owed refunds. I exchanged a couple of emails with Justyn several days ago and he told me that those that deserved refunds would receive them, but in the next sentence he said that he did state in his ads that deposits were non refundable. I belive he was inferring that customers were clamoring for refunds even though he does have the animals to ship out. I'll post relevent parts of the emails when I have access to my primary computer later today. I am just so sorry this situation happened, but it is very dissapointing that Justyn was dishonest about mailing money orders out to people, that is just wrong. His reputation is in the toilet right now and it is going to be close to impossible for him to get it clean again, but the best start to doing so is for him to be honest, about everything.

Thank you for posting Kelli. I know this situation must be very hard on you.

As far as the refunds being "non-refundable" that would be a new twist and I would wonder why he hadn't brought it up previously. My suspicion is because it is not so.

Also, if he has the animals, most of these folks would probably still want them. After all, that's why they sent money in the first place. If he really has these animals, then he should have, by now, posted real photos of them, perhaps with a current newspaper somewhere in a background. That would resolve that issue. Then, as a matter of trust, he should ship them out, and, on approval, accept payment for the remainder from these individuals. None of them, after his lies about the money orders (and his other lies) would, in their right minds, send additional funds to him without animals in hand.

Lastly, he should come here and offer that.


My guess, Kelli, is that he does not have these animals, but would happily accept your word for it if you have seen them. Perhaps Justyn can show them to you.

 

[KelliH]

My guess, Kelli, is that he does not have these animals, but would happily accept your word for it if you have seen them. Perhaps Justyn can show them to you.

Well, we aren't exactly on speaking terms right now, so probably not. Wouldn't it be easier to just snap a few pics? If people were saying I did not have animals when I really had them, I would be posting all kinds of pics of the animals in question, wouldn't you?

 

[Jim O]

Well, we aren't exactly on speaking terms right now, so probably not. Wouldn't it be easier to just snap a few pics? If people were saying I did not have animals when I really had them, I would be posting all kinds of pics of the animals in question, wouldn't you?

I guess then that your email exchange did not end well.

And yes, of course I would post loads of pics. As many as needed.

 

[critical bill]

Real nice of the guy to infer he had the animals to ship when thats what half of the people he owed actually wanted a few weeks ago but instead were given the excuse he was too busy to ship them out. You cant get your deposit back but you also cant get the animals you ordered. And there are a few people that have paid in full and they haven't gotten what they paid for so his disclaimer of non refundable deposits is a bunch of crap. Amazing the way this kids brain works. I'll bet if you put his brain in a horse it would run backwards.

 

[Wraith]

Just an FYI: Arachnoboards does have their own "BOI" type forum.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/forumdisplay.php?f=8

Their rules are very different than the BOI here. Most likely anyone posting there about this trouble would wind up getting their post deleted from there.

http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=39

"The review section is NOT for any discussions. If you have any questions or comments, please contact the person you wish to further discuss the review with either by PM or email. Please also refrain from quoting another post in your review."

"This forum is not a place to get a dealer's attention. If you have a problem with an ongoing order, resolve it before posting. Reports about obviously unresolved problems are simply going to be deleted without notice. It is misleading to the readers to have a negative review on page 1 and a short paragraph that the problem was resolved on page 3 after you and the dealer have gone back and forth bickering with one another - it is far more effective to wait until everything is as resolved as it's going to get and post a complete review detailing the problems you had."

 

[KelliH]

it is far more effective to wait until everything is as resolved as it's going to get and post a complete review detailing the problems you had

I wonder how long one is supposed to wait for the problem to be resolved before posting?

 

[morocco]

When I e-mailed some mods they told me I can't reply to his ads, and if I would have posted what I wrote I guarantee it would have been taken down,lol. I'm sure soon there will be a nasty thread about him on there as well as here if he screws enough people. What a great guy . Justyn, can you get with me as I need a really deep pond dug this week?? I'm about 25 minutes from Ft. Worth so we could get right to digging it. Then we could bob for apples in it; you 1st of course.

 

[erk2]

I decided not to post anything on arachnoboards, instead I just sent an email to the site cotact alerting them of this situation and will let them decide how to handle it. After all it is their website.

As for the non-refundable deposits, hey, that's fine and dandy, if he had the animals and could ship them in a reasonable amount of time I would not expect to recieve a refund.....however he obviously does not have the animals because as stated, if he did he would post pictures....such a simple and easy way to clear things up.....go on my ads and ask for a picture of anything I am advertising and see if you don't get one in 12 hours.

I'm off to call the Fort Worth Police Department to see what can be done about this from their end.

That being said.....this email was recieved on May 8th with a few previous corespondences below it.......so much for his non-refundable deposits
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be issuing a refund. If you still want the animals I'll work
something out later this week or next.
Thanks
Justyn



Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
Http://www.IntenseHerp.com



>From: "Northshore Reptiles, LLC" <[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: Message about: Egypt Landing April 18 (Horned Vipers, Carpet
>Vipers, Pseudocerastes including a NEW SPECIES)
>Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:22:24 -0500
>
>Hey Justyn -
>
>Are you gonna be able to get that paypal over to me tonight? I have
>something else I want to get with that money.
>
> Thanks,
> Eric
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Intense Herpetoculture"
><[email protected]>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:24 AM
>Subject: Re: Message about: Egypt Landing April 18 (Horned Vipers, Carpet
>Vipers, Pseudocerastes including a NEW SPECIES)
>
>
>>Did not go out today.
>>
>>
>>
>>Justyn Miller
>>Intense Herpetoculture
>>Http://www.IntenseHerp.com
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "Northshore Reptiles, LLC" <[email protected]>
>>>To: <[email protected]>
>>>Subject: Re: Message about: Egypt Landing April 18 (Horned Vipers, Carpet
>>>Vipers, Pseudocerastes including a NEW SPECIES)
>>>Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 09:32:39 -0500
>>>
>>>Please tell me those snakes have or are going out today.
>>>

 

[KNOBTAIL]

kelli

at this stage of the game, Justyn has no avenues open any longer that could provide a business venue for him to operate under. He has lost Kingsnake, lost Paypal, and apparently his bad reputation seems to follow him around wherever he may attempt to advertise.

His best option would be to make good on what he owes and start attempting to build up whatever he may have left of a business that has no one to blame but himself.

I can empatize with you Kelli as to how distressing this must be to you. I regret that sometimes under these conditions people can be very dissapointing, and in this case Justyn has non excuses.............left !

 

[AF Exotics]

Well,I guess this was inevitable,as all signs of this episode pointed to an ending like this.I think the worst thing here is how flexible you all have been,and he failed to at least come forward and take his lumps and work with you guys to resolve this.Jerry and others are right,no avenues of amnesty or business in this community are left.Justyn received quite a bit of respect from those involved,more than he ever reciprocated.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

MARCUS

this site is full of gravesites that have a familiar ring to Intense. Somehow this industry is a magnet , an attraction that begs for people to be ripped off and it continues on a daily basis with no end in sight. The one positive note is the ability for the service providers such as Kingsnake and others to have a zero tolerance for this kind of illegal behavior.

But the sad thing about the entire incident is that they always find a way to tunnel themeselves back. Until stronger controls are put in place, it will continue, and regrettably as I have indicated in an earlier post, the rate of convictions as a criminal pursuit become nearly non existent because it turns out to be civil and unless the victim is willing to travel and spend more money than the claim calls for, the perpetrator gets away...............again. Worse than that start all over again, but this time not using his real name, and having the same machinery available to him ................again. Paypal, Kingsnake, and any other forum that will accept his ads.

 

[KelliH]

emails

From Justyn's emails to me

Second, as for all the Fauna expletive deleted and the refunds, any legitimate person who should get a refund, will. Not just anyone that demands it though. I have been set back at shipping animals, I have many other things going on right now. So I make an exception for a few people, and now EVERYONE that has money down wants a freaking refund. Even though I have the damn animals waiting to be sent. I can not do this, I imported the quantities of animals for the specific number that was requested in many cases.

Third, leo people. Yes, I was accepting deposits on leos. Now I have them protesting that I doubtfully can supply the animals and my shipment was
canceled. Which is not true. Each stating that's what they heard from a
big unnamed breeder that is female. I do not know why you even take the
time to talk to these people, it is not your business, it is mine. I think
we talked about the leo shipment twice and each time I NEVER said anything
about it being cancelled. If they have any questions they should take the
time to e-mail me and I'll get them a response. I am seriously considering
canceling the leo shipment for the simple fact that all of robins expletive deleted is going to cause me issues selling any animals I bring in.

My reply

Justyn-
I'm not upset with you about what you said about Robin. I am upset that you
lied to me. I asked you if you sent those people their money back and you
said yes. Apparantly that was not true.

I haven't spoken to anyone in quite awhile about your leo shipment. Anyone
that asked me (and it wasn't many, maybe 2 or 3 people) I told them NOT TO
WORRY about sending you a deposit, that you were trustworthy and that if
something happened you would refund their money. After what they are reading
about you on the BOI now, I can understand their concerns, but those
concerns they are having are not my doing and have nothing to do with me.

His reply

Kelli, I can understand being mad about that, but I did send the money back via USPS. They both stated they have not recieved it and my bank says the
money orders were not cashed, so I don't know what the deal is. In the next few days all the facts will get straigtened out and whoever is
owned money for any reason will be taken care of.

Then a day or two later I began to get a little bit angry and wrote this to him

I think it's pretty crappy of you to put the blame on me because people that sent you deposits for leopard geckos are now questioning you. I can only
think of 3 people that contacted me about your leopard gecko ads: Alberto,
Paul Allen, and a guy named Mike Robowski from Florida. Alberto was not even
interested in buying any, he was only asking me about it. Paul Allen and
Mike did express concern about sending deposits up front when you don't even
have the animals yet, and I can completely understand that concern. You know
what I told them? I told them that they had nothing to worry about regarding
their money, that if the geckos never came in you would refund their
deposits immediately, that you were trustworthy and would not keep their
money. Now, you are saying that "leo people" are questioning you because of
me? I would like for you to name one leo person that said I told them you
were cancelling a shipment. I never said that to anyone.

I find it rather ridiculous that you are now angry with me or upset with me.
You put yourself in the prediciment you are now in, and I went to bat for
you on Fauna in your thread and in personal conversations I had with people
that ended up buying animals from you. Yet you seem to be blaming me somehow
for some of your problems. Why?

His last email to me

Kelli, this is what a guy named Juan told me.

First it was:
I
>had heard a rumor if you will, about this shipment not making it to the
>USA.. (from an individual who had heard it from a supposed friend of yours)

Second it was this when I questioned him:
Not to instigate but I believe the guys' name is Michael who told me it
was told to him by a "big" named "female" leo breeder. I was just
checking.. Everyone I've asked said youre a great biz man.

I had another guy say the same thing last week, so I thought I would ask.
Thanks
Justyn

 

[Jim O]

I can't believe that he is sticking to the story about sending out those refunds.

You really are pathetic Justyn.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

KELLI

someone should ask Justyn, at what point do you stop inconveniencing a customer? It has become a very convenient excuse to use about this business of no refunds even when the terms never seem to be met by the shipper!

 

[nora]

Just to go back on something Jim said:

As far as the refunds being "non-refundable" that would be a new twist and I would wonder why he hadn't brought it up previously. My suspicion is because it is not so.

Legally, if justyn has a "non-refundable deposit statement" in his TOS or in any of his ads, including the ones for the congo shipment, then no one is entitled to their refunds. However, since now justyn has offered refunds (in writing no less), his "non-refundable" statement is now null and void.

Now since this is technically a civil case (not penal/criminal) then getting a lawyer consult will be the next step to take after reporting Justyn to the proper authorities.

 

[viandy]

Arachnoboards

When I checked on here and saw that Justyn is advertising animals for sale I was sickened. All of what he's put the people who sent him money through, and he's advertising things on Arachnoboards? I feel nauseated and angry about this. I've bought several hundred reptiles through different sites and this is the first time I've been ripped off like this. How can this guy think he can take our money, give us nothing for it, and that we will have any respect for him? I did send an email to Arachnoboards giving a summation of my experience with Intense Herps, the agencies and businesses I've contacted about him, and asking them to contact me for any further information. Hopefully they will pull his ads. Hopefully we will get our money back. It's gotten to be a pretty faint hope.

 

[erk2]

Now since this is technically a civil case (not penal/criminal) then getting a lawyer consult will be the next step to take after reporting Justyn to the proper authorities.

Fraud is most deffinitly a criminal offense....so far Justyn has committed wire and money fraud over state lines, it is a Federal crime and being that my case alone is over $1,000 it is also a felony.

 

[AF Exotics]

It doesn't even appear he is the slightest bit remorseful or regrets any of his actions or less than truthful excuses he has given to this point.Now he turns on one of the few staunch supporters and a person who has openly referred to him as a "friend".

I can only say that it is widely known that a drowning person will grab on to anything and try and pull it under just to save themselves.Looks to me that Kelli has become that object,undeservingly so.

 

[nora]

Fraud is most deffinitly a criminal offense....so far Justyn has committed wire and money fraud over state lines, it is a Federal crime and being that my case alone is over $1,000 it is also a felony.

Fraud is actually a civil offense. It's still a crime, but there's a difference. But that's not anything i actually want to get into. I'll talk to a couple people myself, my cousin is a circuit judge and my good friend is a criminal lawer out of kansas.. I'll see if I can get any information that will be benefitial to you guys.

 

[robin d.]

I am seriously considering
canceling the leo shipment for the simple fact that all of robins expletive deleted is going to cause me issues selling any animals I bring in.

well apparently i am ruining his "good name" , where he can not sell anymore animals.

justyn, you did that to yourself