is this a desparate business in need of funds?

[Wilomn]

I'm not a member of The Brotherhood of the Ball (are they still meeting weekly, I haven't gotten a newsletter in ages) nor a breeder of them at all.

I am curious though. When those of you who bought he end balls purchased them, were you given some sort of guarentee or assurance that the price would remain high?

You see, here's the thing; at least for me this is the thing.

There are NO rules.

There are guidelines.
There are parameters.
There are maxims.
There are tenets.

But, as far as I know, there are no RULES that say you have to charge anything and just because this guy blew his out doesn't mean a darn thing.

He decided to do with his business what he wanted to, to get rid of and make a profit on, his inventory.

His timing and pricing did exactly what any good business man should be striving for; he sold out at a price that was acceptable to him. He is NOT responsible to anyone else nor is he responsible for what you charge or do not charge for your reptiles.

He swooped.

He profitted.

IF you really want to get even with him, beat him to it next year because if it worked so big for him, you can rest assured that if he does not himself continue, someone else will.

 

[Ed Clark]

Mkr

Wes,you Are Correct ,a Good Business Move ? Maybe.he Swooped And He Profited.and He Was Banned From Kingsnake And Where Will He Place His Ads Next Year.

AND YES WES ,I AM A CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF BALLS.

 

[Wilomn]

Wes,you Are Correct ,a Good Business Move ? Maybe.he Swooped And He Profited.and He Was Banned From Kingsnake And Where Will He Place His Ads Next Year.

AND YES WES ,I AM A CARD CARRYING MEMBER OF THE BROTHERHOOD OF BALLS.

LOL.

When I say good business move, I am not referring to being a nice guy, or one that you tell your friends about or go to when you need support.

BUT, this may well be the kind of guy who is consistent in showing a profit.

If it's just profit, then he made a bold, irritatingly correct, move to dump what he had before anyone else got rid of theirs.

That's all I meant. Who knows whether he will be around next year. If he is, it wouldn't surprise me if he found customers then too.

It sucks, but a lot of people in this business buy solely on price.

I breed calkings. I have for years. I produce quality snakes and have been doing so for generations. I charge top dollar for my snakes. I also work hard to sell the hatchlings.

EVERY friggin year there is some yahoo who is producing snakes "sort of" like mine and charging half what he could get, half what I do get, because he's just in it to make X% profit and he needs to sell quick at a low price to do that. Which totally screws it up for the rest of us.

They sell out, disappear, or become like a yearly flu, here for a short time, then sold out and gone til next year. People who KNOW that quality is rarely, not never but certainly not often, found at rock bottom prices will go where they know quality is to be found.

It sure does no good to actually worry about these lowballers. They're going to do what they want regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, so there is no point in needlessly being concerned with them.

Ed, is my secret newsletter on its secret way to my secret mailbox?

 

[Ed Clark]

wes,these low ballers that surface every summer are a thorn in the side and make me go a little crazy at times.the rock bottom buyers seldom think about who will they call after their purchase.and they start to have problems.

secret newsletter sent.

we meet monthly in northern virginia.

 

[Wilomn]

wes,these low ballers that surface every summer are a thorn in the side and make me go a little crazy at times.the rock bottom buyers seldom think about who will they call after their purchase.and they start to have problems.

secret newsletter sent.

Thanks on the newsletter and on the buyers, you're 100% correct.

ALL they are thinking about is what they are paying.

Now, do you with balls, heh heh heh, and me with kings, give up and not produce what we like because of the lowballers that we know are going to be there or do we ignore them like we do the skeeters on our pe...rs when the fish are biting. (Yes, you'll feel a little stinging sensation and it's irritating, but if you don't scratch it so badly that it tears open, it's gone almost before you notice it.)

I've still got far more kings than I really should have and babies coming up as well.

 

[Cat_72]

I can see why you're confused. Apparently you don't think the different posters can have their own opinion or observations.

Ah, but the problem lies in that both of you stated what you stated as FACT, not opinion. She says the big breeders are threatening MKR (and therefore they are evil and she will send all of her referrals to MKR), you say they don't care. Get the difference? Personally, my OPINION is that the majority lie somewhere in between. But then, that's just my opinion.

Ed, I don't think anyone took it as you being the one threatening them. I understood what ya meant. But I feel left out not getting a newsletter.

And Wes, you are absolutely right. There are no rules, as such.....just ethics, which is highly debatable for some. I just hope their choice to crap on their customers and others comes back and bites them in the .

Now I'm going back to work, since for some dumb reason chose to waste my break time reading this. LOL.

 

[Wilomn]

So often people get mad at other people for doing things that they tell themselves they would not do. There is ALWAYS someone that WILL do what no one else will, especially if money is involved.

Which is all well and good, but an absolute waste of time being concerned over. W

How deep is the river if you cannot see the bottom?

 

[Ed Clark]

cathy,thanks for being one of the few that understood the meaning of that post about the threats.i recieved hate mail about it and i also lost someone special over it.just wanted to say that i was not making any threats against mkr and if it appeared that i did,im sorry.

secret newsletter has been sent.

cant figure out how to fit you into the brotherhood though.

 

[Wilomn]

cathy,thanks for being one of the few that understood the meaning of that post about the threats.i recieved hate mail about it and i also lost someone special over it.just wanted to say that i was not making any threats against mkr and if it appeared that i did,im sorry.

secret newsletter has been sent.

cant figure out how to fit you into the brotherhood though.

Serving Wench? Can't have too many serving Wenches.

 

[jpatino]

i am usually a lurker here but thought i would add my .02 cents on a comment made earlier that the rock bottom buyers that surface don't think about who they will call when something goes bad. if i was one of them rock bottom buyers and had a problem with my $800.00 Mojave from mkr and post here on fauna i would bet my Mojave (if i was a betting man lol) that someone here would help me out. there was another comment about where are the low ballers going to sell next year? if i remember right there are 2 ladys from washington that have a long thread about them and they are still posting ads here on fauna classifieds. just my .02 cents


jpatino

 

[gant77]

I read that MKR is advertising here....

on FC and I think they said repti-bid as well. I haven't checked so I could be wrong.

 

[Cat_72]

cathy,thanks for being one of the few that understood the meaning of that post about the threats.i recieved hate mail about it and i also lost someone special over it.just wanted to say that i was not making any threats against mkr and if it appeared that i did,im sorry.

secret newsletter has been sent.

cant figure out how to fit you into the brotherhood though.

Looking back, I guess I can see where someone might have taken your initial statement that way Ed, but it never crossed my mind that you would be saying something like that. I'm surprised that many people did see it that way, and hope they can go back and re-read it and understand it the way it was intended.

The whole thing just sucks, plain and simple. What else can I say?

Serving Wench? Can't have too many serving Wenches.

Well, I admit I may have been called a wench a few times, but I think I may be lacking in the serving area. How about just a generic Wench?

 

[Ed Clark]

JOHN,YOU ARE CERTAINLY CORRECT ABOUT COMING HERE AND GETTING HELP WITH A SNAKE PROBLEM ,THAT YOU PURCHASED FROM A LOW BALL SELLER WHICH HAS DISAPPEARED.AND I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO OFFER THAT HELP TO YOU.JUST DONT ASK FOR A $800.00 MOJAVE.THATS A VERY TOUCHIE SUBJECT WITH ME RIGHT NOW.

CAT,BY THE WAY.THATS A REALLY CREEPY DOG YOU GOT THERE.

 

[Griz]

I did not waste my time by reading beyond Clay's last post. To be honest, Ed you are an . I had truly thought that you were sincere in your email to me but I guess I was wrong. Take a look at what Ed sent me a few months back:

bob,you are a real whore for putting these boas out at such a low price.you
will have single handedly destroyed the sunglow market.are you really this
desparate for money.ED CLARK

This was due to the fact that I had a early sunglow litter and priced my animals at where I anticipated not only what this years prices were going to be but also what I needed in order to take care of pre-funding my kids college fund. Guess what, the average Sunglow price is in the $2500 range which is right on target with my estimates and my original price. When all was said and done I pocketed roughly $30,000 this year on that one litter alone! I had $6000 invested in the parents. And, due to my breeding schedules, these two parents are going to do it again for me. That's a HUGE return on investment that anyone should be proud of and that was WITH me setting the prices based upon MY needs not yours!

These are my damn snakes and I will charge whatever I want for them. Period. Clay, maybe I am the exception to the rule but I have a room full of morphs and my prices are ALWAYS placed where I need them to be vs where you want them to be. Honestly, I don't care about what you do in your store or what prices you need them to be at. I raise these animals in an effort to supply my family with an additional level of security beyond what my consulting firm supplies. I do not raise these animals as a living but I respect those who do. However, your choice of occupations WILL NOT dictate the prices I set my animals at!

I did my best with this years litters to offer them privately to the larger breeders so as to not negatively impact the marketplace. Guess what? Most of them attempted to screw me. How about $800 for my sunglows and $60 for my dh sunglows? What's good for the goose is good for the gander right?

As I clearly stated to Ed in email, those of you who wish to come down on individuals like me need to take an economics class. For 8 years of college I majored in business so I know what it takes to succeed. I have run a successful consulting firm here in Illinois for going on a decade now so again, I know what I am doing.

But, to have the audacity to price fix the market through intimidation, especially in an open forum is disgusting. Hence the reason for the tone of contempt in my reply here. It's my animals and I will do whatever I want when it comes to pricing them. Don't like it then compete. It's that simple.

Bob

 

[Griz]

Like Cat explained.
This was about buying one of these morphs last year only to see the value of it drop tremendously in a matter of months.
Everyone knows the prices will drop. This HUGE drop in price MKR made took everyone by surprise.

Sorry, but that is called reality. I bought a new Ford truck this past November and contemplated trading it in a few weeks ago on a new Suburban. My $40,000 truck was now only worth $18,000 to the dealership. It's life and it's something that people have to get used to especially in a volatile market like livestock.

Griz

 

[Ed Clark]

Bob,you are a real class act.was it your intention to come hear and stire things up abit.i see you on the boi attacking anyone that has an opposing view of yours.i said some things to you that were harsh,but truthful.and i told you i may have been harsh to you and you said cool and we moved on.now whats this.like i said you are a real class act.best regards ED CLARK

P. S . Bob when i sent you that email we all were selling sunglows that were priced in the 4500.00 range you came along with 2500.00 prices which sucked up all the sales.we all expect a drop in prices every year,but cutting prices by 2000.00 you made your business decision,and i will live by that.it was you that lost all that extra income.best of luck with your future breedings.

 

[Griz]

Bob,you are a real class act.was it your intention to come hear and stire things up abit.i see you on the boi attacking anyone that has an opposing view of yours.i said some things to you that were harsh,but truthful.and i told you i may have been harsh to you and you said cool and we moved on.now whats this.like i said you are a real class act.best regards ED CLARK

P. S . Bob when i sent you that email we all were selling sunglows that were priced in the 4500.00 range you came along with 2500.00 prices which sucked up all the sales.we all expect a drop in prices every year,but cutting prices by 2000.00 you made your business decision,and i will live by that.it was you that lost all that extra income.best of luck with your future breedings.

That's it Ed, show your colors. Let me point out some FACTS:

1) Sunglows were not selling for $4500 at that point in time. The market had all but dried up. How do I know this? It was through speaking with other breeders who were still sitting on 05 sunglow stock!

2) I still have 2, yes 2 Sunglows from my original litter that have not sold. I sold 3 sunglows at that price. The rest I traded. Why? Because they could not be sold at the $2500 price. Check with SpecialK. He's sitting on 2 of my sunglows (including high contrast) and he can't sell his at $2200!

3) Yes, Ed, you and I were cool only after I, not you, took the initiative. But, you simply said you were having a bad day yet you have the audacity to start this thread here under the same premise? You were sorry for what you did? You simply were sorry that you decided to enter into an intellectual economics debate that you quickly found out you could not handle. You thought I was someone who would back down from being called a WHORE vs someone who would school you in the fundamentals of supply and demand.

4) As for the BOI, Ed why don't you attach some links to where I have attack anyone who did not deserve it. About the only time I post is when it's clear that individual in question is either a scammer or someone who is lacking integrity. You're lucky I did not start one on you back when you sent me that email. You certainly deserved it. At least now, by your own creation, people will see the type of crap you email out. I for one, do not doubt that you shot off a similar threatenting email to MKR, just like you did me.

No Ed, you are certainly not a class act. Anyone who would have the audacity to send out an email like that, especially unsolicited, is worthless in my books.

Griz

 

[Bill & Amy]

Bob,

The mojave market wasn't "dried up" by any means. I really don't know what happened with your sunglow market at the time as I have never been in the market. I know a couple of people who were selling mojaves for $1600-$1800 price range and were moving animals. The MKR came out of nowhere selling mojaves for $800 dollars. I really don't think this was a necessary drop to move animals. Out of his own admission MKR did $400,000 worth of business in 8 weeks, so it wasn't because he needed the money. But he wants all the money he can get as fast as he can get it!!! He wants to break one million dollars this year. As soon as the snakes becomes a fast money making system the whole ball python industry is affected. Plus, where you offered the animals to big name breeders MKR did not. In my OPINION, MKR doesn't give a rats butt what happens to this hobby, just what his check book says.

 

[Ed Clark]

bob,you come on here under the false premise that the money was for your childs college education,then you talk about the 40,000.00 truck that you just bought.you also were running ads looking to get a very expensive tight turn lawn mower.which is it.it can't be them all.

once again, at the time of my email to you i was selling sunglows for $4500.00 and no matter what you say thats the facts.

bob,best of luck with your future breedings. ED CLARK

 

[Griz]

Bob,

The mojave market wasn't "dried up" by any means. I really don't know what happened with your sunglow market at the time as I have never been in the market. I know a couple of people who were selling mojaves for $1600-$1800 price range and were moving animals. The MKR came out of nowhere selling mojaves for $800 dollars. I really don't think this was a necessary drop to move animals. Out of his own admission MKR did $400,000 worth of business in 8 weeks, so it wasn't because he needed the money. But he wants all the money he can get as fast as he can get it!!! He wants to break one million dollars this year. As soon as the snakes becomes a fast money making system the whole ball python industry is affected. Plus, where you offered the animals to big name breeders MKR did not. In my OPINION, MKR doesn't give a rats butt what happens to this hobby, just what his check book says.

Amy, I understand what you are saying. But, here is my gripe. These are his animals. MKR is accountable to him and only him. If he wants to sell his animals for pennies on the dollar then who are we to say otherwise? If he is able to produce these animals at a lower overhead then the competition then it will reflect so in his prices.

I have already reaped a huge profit off of the parents of my sunglow litter. When they produce again this next year I will be selling my babies for even less. Why? Because I can. Because I have already seen a huge return on my investment. Because I truly enjoy making this hobby enjoyable (read affordable) for others. Because I like the idea that the money I am receiving is ensuring the future success of my children since their college will be paid for. Because I enjoy some of the finer things in life that this hobby affords me. It is NOT about maximizing my returns on every single animal. It is about knowing what the market will allow, what my finances will allow, and most important, what my family needs in order to continue our standard of living. It will never be about making sure my animals does not affect the bottom line of Ed Clark or any breeder for that matter.

What ever the motives were behind these mojaves is irrelevant. The day that I allow someone else to dictate my selling strategies is the day that I need to be put into a nursing home for dementia. Please do not take this wrong, but I owe nobody anything. I am responsible, as is MKR, for myself and only myself.

I probably would not have jumped in on this conversation had it not been Ed Clark that started it. He's proven himself to be incapable of rational thought when it comes to others pricing. He has also proven himself incapable of controlling his thoughts and emails. How would you like to be enjoying your day only to have someone who you had never heard of call you a whore? And for what? For selling your animals based upon market allowances?

Griz