It happens...

[Robert Walker]

So unfortunately this happens sometimes. Never happened to me before until last year when we got one albino with it, she never would eat and had to put her down. Got two this year, one mild case and one pretty bad.

Basically looks like the lower jaw never fully developed properly in the egg. I have included some pictures. I'm sure any one who breeds ball pythons have their own stories of when things just didn't come out like you thought. 2 babies in about 200 is not a bad ratio for mother nature to do her thing.

Top picture of Pastel with "normal" rounded nose as reference.
Top picture of YB with pointer nose (jaw issue)

Bottom pictures of mild (Pastel YB) and severe lip deformity (YB from above).
Again, it happens...

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Wow. Is this the result of inbreeding? I'm guessing they were both from the same clutch, I don't think I'd be crossing those two again.

 

[Lucille]

I'm so sorry about your two babies That must be one of the difficult parts of breeding, even though if one breeds long enough, chances are that something like that will happen.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Do you plan to try to get these ones to eat, or do you think the jaw deformity makes it impossible? Since the bottom jaw is so sunken, I wonder if the breathing tube could even extend far enough to allow ingestion :s. That's really unfortunate, it reminds me of a cleft lip.

 

[Robert Walker]

Wow. Is this the result of inbreeding? I'm guessing they were both from the same clutch, I don't think I'd be crossing those two again.

Nick, this is not a result of inbreeding. Both parents were adults when I acquired them from different breeders, same with the pair that produced the Albino last year. Albino pair breed several times previous with no issues.

I'm so sorry about your two babies That must be one of the difficult parts of breeding, even though if one breeds long enough, chances are that something like that will happen.

Lucy has hit it on the head...

This was basically the reason I posted, "it happens". I know others have had it happen too. Some people don't like to talk about it or show it off because they worry about others thinking something is wrong with "them", "their collection", "quality of animals" etc. It has nothing to do with any of it, mother nature creates differences sometimes...heck if not we would not be looking at all the different "morphs" either.

 

[Robert Walker]

Do you plan to try to get these ones to eat, or do you think the jaw deformity makes it impossible?

I will give them both a solid fair chance to make it no doubt. I "think" that they won't. Even if they could eat, I worry about their mouths drying out and what that might do.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Yea I was thinking that too when I saw it. And I didn't mean to insinuate anything when I mentioned inbreeding, I was genuinely curious as I'm fairly new to this. I'm sorry if that came across the wrong way, I appreciate you putting the pics up as I've never seen it before.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Oh wow I'm sorry, I see how that would have been read. I meant both of the baby snakes with the deformities were from the same clutch, not the parents being from the same clutch. That's the problem with typing, YOU know what you mean to say, but of course it can be read entirely differently -.-

 

[Reptile Frenzy]

So how would one go about putting down a snake? Does CO2 work like it does on rats?

 

[Robert Walker]

Oh wow I'm sorry -.-

No worries at all Nick, everything is good!

So how would one go about putting down a snake? Does CO2 work like it does on rats?

Mark, this is a great question. I know various methods exist and people will debate forever over what is more humane, etc. I personally put them in a freezer bag and place them in the freezer.

 

[Reptile Frenzy]

Thought freezer was a long painful death? We havent needed to put one down yet but dont want to guess what to do when thay time comes. We had a baby pastel with twisted umbillicus last year. We tied it off cut the sack off and put her on fairly soaked paper towels. She didnt make it through the night... Thanks for the reply.

 

[bcr229]

I personally put them in a freezer bag and place them in the freezer.

My understanding is that this is one of the more inhumane methods as it's very painful for the animal.

Pithing the brain is instantaneous and pain-free if done correctly. You can either use a sharp/pointy object like a knife to destroy the brain, a large mallet to inflict blunt trauma, or a firearm of appropriate caliber based on the critter's size. The picture at this article shows exactly where to aim: http://pythonchallenge.org/toolkit/euthanasia.aspx

 

[Robert Walker]

I know various methods exist and people will debate forever over what is more humane, etc.

Thought freezer was a long painful death?

My understanding is that this is one of the more inhumane methods as it's very painful for the animal.[/URL]

Yep, this is why it gets debated 'forever'. I'm not going to say what is more or less humane, simply this is the method I use.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Yep, this is why it gets debated 'forever'. I'm not going to say what is more or less humane, simply this is the method I use.

I think it's considered more inhumane for mammals because they have the ability to produce body heat and would slowly die of hypothermia. Since snakes can't maintain body heat, I think it would be much faster. I'm not an expert on any of this, just thinking about it logically.

 

[Reptile Frenzy]

Thats a good point nick.

 

[AbsoluteApril]

thanks for sharing Robert. I agree that the odd deformity or snake that doesn't develop fully happens here and there, it's something all breeders should be prepared to deal with and is simply a part of nature.

Yep, this is why it gets debated 'forever'. I'm not going to say what is more or less humane, simply this is the method I use.

I personally try to do blunt force head trama. If you freeze, I believe it's best to put them in the fridge first to slow their metabolism down? That's what I was told and did once although I don't personally recommend freezing for culling. *off my soapbox*

Yup there are a variety of debates on this, some listed here if anyone wants to go back and see some more opinions, there are more threads, I just grabbed a few:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38563
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242424
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291340
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182540
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409817
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328761
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255178

 

[Robert Walker]

thanks for sharing Robert. I agree that the odd deformity or snake that doesn't develop fully happens here and there, it's something all breeders should be prepared to deal with and is simply a part of nature.

No problem April. I personally love learning and always appreciate when others share their experience. I enjoy both the romanticized side and the reality side of things.

All great links to the on-going debate too.

 

[j_dunlavy]

thanks for sharing Robert. I agree that the odd deformity or snake that doesn't develop fully happens here and there, it's something all breeders should be prepared to deal with and is simply a part of nature.

Deformities are present in all animals, humans included. Some are crippling, others are not. Some survive, others do not.
One thing to consider with anything deformed is; what will their quality of life be? Should I try to save it, or will it just be miserable?

 

[Robert Walker]

One thing to consider with anything deformed is; what will their quality of life be? Should I try to save it, or will it just be miserable?

Agreed. Here is a girl that hatched out here with an extra thick neck. Someone could have seen it as a cause to cull. We gave her every chance possible and she thrived just fine. She lived with us for several years and then moved on to live with a wonderful person on the west coast.

 

[hhmoore]

Does CO2 work like it does on rats?

No, it does not. I know of 2 people that tried it - wanting to do the best thing for their beloved pets....both were pained by the unanticipated results.