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It's been OVER a year!!!

K

Karkota

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OK, here's the deal!!
In May of 2001, I sold someone a Adult Het/Albino "Female" Boa!!! TODAY, the guy e-mails me and tells me the boa died in Nov. of 2001. He froze the animal and took it in for a neocropsy(Sp?). The vet said it was a "MALE". The guy paid 450$ for "her" and wants 200$ compensation (actually, he wants some BP's that I hatched this year) to "keep my reputation"!!
I told him that I couldn't do anything, it's been OVER A YEAR!!!! What would you do??  
Thanks Eric Burkett
 
I'd offer him a discount on the BP's (something like 10 - 15%) not because it was due him or anything but rather as a way to smooth over a deal for a customer. From the "keep your reputation" comment I get the impression he is trying to "muscle" you into giving him way more than he deserves (of course this is without hearing his side or the whole conversation that quote was from). Improper sexing didn't kill the animal and it seems to be a minor concern if he waited that long to check (really he didn't even check, as it seems it was found out by accident). All IMHO.
 
Erik...This doesn't even pass the "laugh" test!! The snake was dead "before" he even checked the sex?? Then he put it in the freezer for "months"<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'> You can't do a proper ecropsy with a frozen snake?? You don't owe this guy a dime! I wouldn't give him the satisfaction...as I've said before....there are those times when you just "know" that you're being taken advantage of, and you've "got" to put your foot down! You are "never" going to please everyone (take my word for that&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>...it won't ruin your reputation and it won't hurt your business, either! (take my word for that, too&#33<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'>...
I wouldn't give it a second thought....just tell this guy you're sorry, but there's absolutely nothing you are willing to do for him! And let it go at that! No matter what you do, you've already lost him as a customer, even if you swollowed your pride and gave in to his demands, he's still going to "down-talk" you...so, why waste your money for nothing....Neil
 
Eric,

I gotta say it....Some customers suck.  I am seeing a bad trend here with customers starting to turn up more and more wanting money or animals when the seller is not at fault or have any obligation to do so.  Don't even waste your time with this character.  A Necropsy can't be done correctly once an animal has been frozen for one thing.  Another thing, if it died in Novenmber why did he now get in contact with you? Sounds kinda fishy to me.  He is just trying to strong-arm you into feeling bad and giveing him free animals. DO NOT GIVE INTO HIM.  THis will not hurt your reputation in the slightest. Just tell him nicely "Sorry but there is nothing I will do for you, I am sorry for the loss of th snake but I am not responsiblefor it."
 
not a dime, no way, no how! If this person even tried to "ruin your reputation" he would be laughed off any forum ! Keep your money,
you don't need the reputation of an easy mark!  Don't be suckered in.

Jerry Dorgan

gig <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
"BEING HELD HOSTAGE AS A SELLER AND HOW TO AVOID IT"
         
         This is the title of my newest book.

    The answer to this mini drama is thusely:

         A pre-written and drafter TERMS of SALE paper
         that the customer can SEE  before purchaseing, or at
         least when his snake arrives.


"ERIC"

You sold this guy a  snake LAST MAY? In the year 2001?
And YOU incorrectly sexed it(Bad business on that one my friend)

BUT..........
He contacts you in NOV 2001. A TAD late in about 99.9% of the majority of most reptile breeders credos. He says he has a Necropsy report? from the dead snake, that was incorrectly sexed and bought from you, and this after the snake went in the FREEZER.
This is all damning evidence, and frankly a P.R. nightmare, only one small problem remains:

                 IT IS A ORIGINAL & HIGHLY FABRICATED LIE

This is JUST my opinion, but if you sell a person a snake
they keep it for  upwards of 6 months, it dies on them and then they wait some more time to tell you that it died and a necropsy was done, then ASK for a partial refund becuase the snake was the WRONG SEX?
Well, if the snake was the wrong sex, they would certainly be due a refund in ful. But , then how do you know that the snake you get back will be the same one that was supposed to be "Incorrectly sexed"? And this is asumeing the snake is alive.

To many holes in this story, it smellls like my aunt margies socks in the dirty clothes hamper. HERE are some scenarios to think about:

a) The snake arrived there alive and healthy, and after being exposed to a virus or bacterium in that persons collection succombed to it.   Verdict:Not your responsiblity, to much time elapsed to ensure that it wasnt his neglect that killed the snake

b) The boa you sent him was healthy and well. SO healthy in fact that he wanted another one to go with it, but this one for free. He tells you that it died, but actually uses another boa found in the deep freeze as the necropsy specimen then tell you that you need to replace it or cough up money for the miss sexing of it. Verdict: Not your responsibility

c) You sent him a boa that was sick, it took about 6 months to take the sleigh ride downhill into never never land and died.
DUREING this time he doesnt contact you at all. He finds out AFTER the snake is dead that it was the wrong sex all along.
            Verdict: Partial responsibility for selling a snake of the wrong sex, but only if the body can be sent to you along with the pathology report describing it and you can make a positive I.D. of the snake by matching up pattern of skin.

d) NOTHING died. The pathology report is a hoax or one borrowed from a friend. Yopu sexed the snake correctly. The person that purchased it from you just wants to get over
      Verdict: Not responsible


My opinion is this; Do what your conscious dictates for you to do. Personally, i would refund one red centavo of his money, and would never sell him a snake again, ever. Draw up a disclaimer and terms page that clearly state what happens post sale, it will protect you from unscroupulous people TRYING to threaten you. If people know and understand yourterms before the sael, then it makes things easier.

                                          Fred
 
PLEASE NOTE:

In my post above I said that "I would refund one centavo of his money.
This quote is incorrect, ity should have read"I WOULDNT refund one red centavo of his money"

                           NADA
                           ZILCH
                           ZERO
                            0-
             

                          Fred Albuiry
                          (Aztec Reptiles)
 
Your liability is limited to the sale and possibly whatever additional agreement you may have made with this person. Apparently he considers himself married to you for the rest of YOUR life. Iam curious if he deals this way with other vendors.You met your obligation, He is owed nothing! JERRY TRESSER
 
Eric,

Your don't owe him a dime because of the death of the animal. Having said this, and as far as you know, did he ever try to breed the boa? (Don't ask him because if not he will say yes, but did he buy it for breeding purposes during that first year?).

Best regards,  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
Thanks for the reply guys!!!!! One more for you!! IF this animal was the wrong sex and was a male, AGAIN, I NEVER sexed the animal myself, I bought it from a well known source and didn't second guess him!!! What is the value of an Adult Het/Albino (Kahl Line) Male boa?? I really have NO clue!! I bought these animals to get started with Boas, but then found a Ball Python I wanted, so the boas went!! What can I say, I LOVE BALL PYTHONS!!!! Thanks Eric Burkett
 
The value of an adult male het for albino (Kahl strain) is about $400. Alot of it depends on what the animal looks like. If it is a beautiful boa itself (clean, high pink) you might get $450, but if it's not the prettiest animal and you are concerned about the genetics only, probably about $375.

Dennis Gulla
 
I wouldn't give him a dime, but you could address the wrong sexing issue if you want to be extra-squeeky clean on this.  If you wanted, you could offer to simply refund the difference in value between the male and female price.  I'm not saying you should, but that would be one way to alleviate any blame pointed toward the mis-sexing of the animal.

Just a thought --
 
If it was still alive.....and can be proven to be the wrong sex.
yes you owe him something.

But it is dead.  How do you know that the animal he brought for necropsy is the same animals you sold him?

Sounds like he wanted some of your animals but could not afford it.
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wouldn't give him a dime, but you could address the wrong sexing issue if you want to be extra-squeeky clean on this.  If you wanted, you could offer to simply refund the difference in value between the male and female price.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Eric, Ritchie and Darin,

That's exactly my point when I asked if he bought the animal for breeding purposes. I'm not taking sides here, but think about the following. Let's assume it's the same animal that died, no wrong-doing involved (the innocent until proven guilty stuff). Let's also suppose he bought the animal in good faith thinking it was a female. He trusted Eric blindly on the sex issue and tried to breed this male to another male for a whole year before the animal died? Then he takes it to the vet for a necropsy and finds out the female he has been trying to breed for a whole year was actually a male!

I agree 100% with Darin on this one the difference in price between male and female sounds fair. After all one should be sure what sex is being sold in order to price them accordingly. You don't even want to think about the other alternative of having to consider compensation because he was not able to produce offspring out of that first mating due to the fact that you sold him a male.

Hope it works out for he best!  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'>
 
I see your point.....but

if the animal died in november or december of 2001.....why is he only trying to contact Eric now?

And instead of asking for a refund....he instead asks for some type of credit on Eric's CB ball pythons.

I say he is just trying to get some free animals.

When did he buy the animals?  put date here--->
When did the animal die?  put date here---->
When did he get it necropsied?  put date here--->
When did he finally contact eric?  put date here--->
 
Sorry Ritchie whoever you are. What I do know is that you 1) do not have the facts and 2) you were never involved in the transaction.  (I am not dissing Ritchie)

Eric writes: "Thanks for the reply guys!!!!! One more for you!! IF this animal was the wrong sex and was a male, AGAIN, I NEVER sexed the animal myself, I bought it from a well known source and didn't second guess him!!! What is the value of an Adult Het/Albino (Kahl Line) Male boa?? I really have NO clue!! I bought these animals to get started with Boas, but then found a Ball Python I wanted, so the boas went!! What can I say, I LOVE BALL PYTHONS!!!! Thanks Eric Burkett"

Eric admits to NEVER SEXING THE SNAKE!!! Thank you your honor I rest my case.

So it is ok for Eric not to sex the animal "I bought it from a well known source and didn't second guess him!!! "

Well I bought the snake from Eric and and didn't second guess him!!! AND I GOT BURNED.

We've heard everything except me being responsible for the Kennedy assasination but here are the facts:
Snake purchased as female 5/01
Snake died 11/01
I took the snake to the vet to ask why it died, the vet couldn't find out why, but he told me that it WAS A MALE!!

I paid $450 for a female! I asked the vet "where is the body!" He said that he disposed of it the prior Monday. I asked the vet to document that it was a male.

HERE IS THE PROOF!
http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bi....rtesy=1

I looked for Eric's e-mail address, phone number but could not find it.

I found him two days ago and quietly asked him to explain and resolve. Once again "quietly resolve the dispute"
I got an abrupt response from him which follows:
"Do you have pics to verify it
died and the "papers from the vet?? If you have all of this, fax it to
Regal. ERIC"

which tells me:
1) Eric does not take responsibility for animals he has sold and
2) he's passing on the buck (GUYS IS THAT AN HONORABLE TRIAIT? ) LOVE TO SEE YOU COPY THAT ONE!

NOT GOOD BUSINESS. NOT A GOOD PERSON ANYONE SHOULD DO BUSINESS TO.

Once again I gave Eric the chance to work with me (practically begged him "let's put this to bed" it's only a $200 difference. I'll even take a credit)

Look at my motivation, to write a wrong.

I tried to quietly work things out but got it thrown back in face

WHAT OTHER OPTIONS TO I HAVE?? I WAS ROBBED!

As to your opinions as to how necropsy should take place, this is irrelivant to the case. Hemipenes are hemipenes and the snake I paid $450 for had them.

I work to resolve disputes not walk away from them with excuses and loopholes. Wouldn't you want the same from somebody you are buying from?

I'll go down to my dying grave on this one. My dying grave!

Art
 
does not look like necropsy papers to me.

as a matter of fact....that paper tells me that the animal
was alive arround the time frame of November 20 something 2001.

I mean it had to be alive......what doctor would give a dead animal a vaccination agaisnt rabies

<img src="http://www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=artcerda&album_id=46053&image_id=52&courtesy=1></a>
 
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Neil Gubitz - The Snake Pit @ June 19 2002,01:23)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Neil Gubitz from the Snake Pit

The snake was not put in the freezer "for a month".

Nor does that effect sex determination "smokescreen?"

Get the facts.
 
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