It's been OVER a year!!!

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Rob @ RK Reptiles @ June 19 2002,01:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Rob @ RK Reptiles writes:
Another thing, if it died in Novenmber why did he now get in contact with you?

The facts: I did not have his e-mail nor phone number.

If I had his phone number  he would have been called instantly.  

Get the facts.

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (KNOBTAIL @ June 19 2002,06:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your liability is limited to the sale and possibly whatever additional agreement you may have made with this person. Apparently he considers himself married to you for the rest of YOUR life. Iam curious if he deals this way with other vendors.You met your obligation, He is owed nothing! JERRY TRESSER</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
JERRY TRESSER

To address your argument (not the case at hand)

You buy a an animal called "het for albino knobtail"
6 months later you breed it successfully with a true albino (sex is irrelivant in this case)the result are no albinos (possible hets)

what would you do?  The deal is done according to your argument. Would you have recourse?  I would hope so.

 

[Karkota]

No, I didn't sex the snake on arrival and neither did you!!! The snake was NOT purchased from Regal (I only said fax it to Regal so I could discuss YOUR "reputation" with Pat) . It was purchased from Gulf Coast Reptiles (you know, the reciept I sent with it)!!!
I haven't replied to your e-mail because I was thinking of how to settle this since I DID NOT sex the animal!!
You've helped me out!!!! As I stated in my first e-mail, NOTHING I can do for you!!!!
So, go ahead and post all you want on kingnake!! I have MANY other happy customers and as one poster put it, you can't please everybody, no matter what!! How do I know the snake even died?? Had you sex the animal on arrival, as I should have, I would've taken the animal back!!!! Over a YEAR later?? C'mon!!!! I'm not hard to find, I post on kingsnake DAILY!!!! Eric Burkett

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ritchie Luna @ June 19 2002,20:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Sounds like he wanted some of your animals but could not afford it.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ah Ritchie

you wrote: "Sounds like he wanted some of your animals but could not afford it"

I just spent $1000 on animals this week from a vendor on the east coast.  At no point did I ask for a cash refund.  I asked to work together and resolve it and got it thrown back in my face.

Get the facts.

Look guys I did not want to bring this up at all but had no choice. To tell you the truth I didn't get any sleep last night over it.  I always give the benefit of the doubt, people make mistakes, that can be forgiven.  But to walk away and pass the buck is not forgiven.

 

[Ken Harbart]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Get the facts.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
As I have said before, I am unaware of anyone that offers a thirteen month satisfaction guarantee. That is well beyond what anyone would consider a reasonable time.

I take your word at face value and believe that the snake is dead (for the record, a necropsy on a previously frozen animal is a waste of time & money). I can also empathize with your frustration at being out $450. However, I don't feel that you're entitled to $200 at this point in time.

Realistically, anytime you buy a snake, you should verify it's sex shortly after you acquire it, regardless of how reputable the dealer is. This is where both of you erred.

If any problems are noted (mis-sexed, not outwardly healthy, wasn't what the buyer expected, doa, etc), the buyer has an obligation to notify the seller within a reasonable time. Generally speaking, most people only give you a 48-72 hour window to notify them.

It's doubtful that anything that anyone can say will change your feelings on this matter, so I'll just keep it at that.

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ritchie Luna @ June 19 2002,23:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Ritchie

Give me a call and we can discuss since you are so interested.

Replay the tape: I was at the vet at 6pm, last customer, vet says "it's a male" I say " where's the body" , he says, "disposed of on monday" I say "can you document and sign"  The receptionist (who wants to go home an is annoyed) prints out a piece of paper, the doctor signs for it. SEE THE DOCTOR SIGNED: necropsy

I grabbed the paper and looked for Eric's phone number which I could not find.

I did not request a full cause of death necropsy report  as the animal died of unknown causes.  My animal, died under my watch.  

alive? The paperwork says: Necropsy which signifies the disection of a dead animal, check any dictionary.

Now don't dis the doctor.  For the record I think that he does an outstanding job and I would disagree with anyone who would criticize his actions.

loopholes and excuses, loopholes and excuses, he paper was not white enough, what's the next excuse?

You guys are good friends of ERic but you're grasping at straws.

Now at this point I do not expect to get anything but will defend the truth to my dying grave.

The het for albino "female" i bought with the bump in it's nose from scratching at the top of the cage, turned out to be a male.

On the points of Passing on the buck, do you agree with it?
"If you have all of this, fax it to Regal. ERIC" So you and your business would do same?

Art

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Karkota @ June 19 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Thanks for making my case again Eric. This is how you do business.

NOTHING I can do for you!!!!
Had you sex the animal on arrival, as I should have, I would've taken the animal back!!!! Eric Burkett

 

[The BoidSmith]

Eric and Art,

I am pretty sure you can work this one out if you are both reasonable. Both made mistakes in your transaction but who doesn't?

A while ago I bought a "guaranteed female" ball python and I made the same mistake, I did not sex it upon arrival. Why would I? The guy that sold it to me was pretty well known so I trusted him.

A few months later I offered this snake as part of a trade to Joe Dembinski. I sent the snake, he sexed it and it turned out to be a male. Who was at fault there? I was. Joe and I worked it over the phone and e-mail, I found another female for him and he shipped me back the male. Remember Joe? No harm done as there was good will by both of us.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How do I know the snake even died??</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

You can contact the vet that did the necropsy. Was it the same snake? Well this is where you either trust people or you don't.

By the way I have never heard of snakes being vaccinated against rabies. I think this vet used a standard form for vaccination because he did not have nothing specific for a snake necropsy.

Just my opinion.

Regards,  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Karkota]

NOBODY would give you ANYTHNG after 13 MONTHS!!!!! End of discussion, for me!!! Eric Burkett

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (alvaro @ June 20 2002,00:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Alvaro

You make some very clear, lucid and objective points.  I wish it hadn't come to posting but had no choice.

Sounds like you made the same innocent mistake that I made, trusting somebody.

You are a very good person to do business, you wrote:
"Who was at fault there? I was. "  You worked it out with the other person, very commendable.

"By the way I have never heard of snakes being vaccinated against rabies" nor have I. This is not the point.  I asked the vet to document for me, he did. His signiture is on the document.  Had I known that I would get the run around, I would have asked for the doctor's signature in blood, and his first born LOL.
<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ArtC @ June 20 2002,00:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
For all:

I am also willing to end this discussion, the other party has made his decision.

Nothing further to post other than to defend the truth if the truth is attacked.

But I will defend the truth to my dying grave.

Art

 

[WebSlave]

Perhaps I missed something, and it's too late to be pertinent, but what the heck.

Art -  if you don't put your full name in one of your messages somewhere, this whole thread is going to look pretty funny when the WebDude deletes all of your messages!

Did you attempt to breed this missexed animal while you had it?  If so and if it had been a female, would you have gotten babies from it before it died?  That is the crux of the matter:  the animal is dead.  Unless you lost out on a litter of babies because the animal was mis-sexed, you really have lost nothing, and it's being a male is completely irrelevant.  A mis-sexed boa still has some value, but a dead one has none. And it certainly did not die from being the wrong sex for your needs, now did it?

Everyone makes mistakes sexing snakes.  Everyone.

 

[Lucas Denning]

I have a few question for Art.  How was the "buck ever passed?"  I thought he just wanted you to fax the info to Regal Reptiles so he could discuss your reputation w/the owner.  He has taken responsibilty for POSSIBLY sending you the wrong sex of the snake.  But, YOU made the exact same mistake.  Why didn't you sex the snake when you got it?<img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'>???  It's just as much your fault as his.  He has said that if he was wrong and you had checked that he would have taken the snake back and given you a refund.  There is no way that you can expect anything from him after 13 months.  That's ridiculous.  What is even more ridiculous is that you expect service on YOUR WORD alone.  You don't even have pics!!!  I guess you say that's the vet's fault, but that's basically your loss.  Not really your fault that the vet threw it out, but you certainly can't blame Eric Burkett.  Also, you say that you couldn't find him.  He says that he is really easy to find.  I'd like to hear you side of that.  Why didn't you track him down?  i don't see how you can even bring this up if you have 0 proof of anything.  Maybe I missed something, and I'm gonna look like an idiot here, if so, I apolagize in advance.  Like you said yourself, "Get the FACTS."
Sorry bout the rant, but there has got to be a line drawn somewhere.  If refunds are expected for something like this, then we aren't going to have anyone to buy from in a couple years cuz they're all gonna be out of business.  
sincerely,
Lucas Denning

 

[ArtC]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lucas Denning @ June 20 2002,02:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hi Lucas,

I am responding to your questions:

He has taken responsibilty for POSSIBLY sending you the wrong sex of the snake.  Not to me.  My discussions with the seller have ended, I'm moving on.

but in response to your questions:

You don't even have pics!!!  Why would I take pix of a dead animal I own.  I had no reason to suspect that it was a male until after it was already disposed of by the vet.  Please read prior comments before providing feedback. Thank you.

Also, you say that you couldn't find him.  I did could not find the receipt, phone number or e-mail. Please read prior comments before providing feedback. Thank you

Lucas if I sold you a snake as a female and it turned out male I would feel that I owe you something back. But that's just me.

I appreciate your feedback but Please read prior comments before providing feedback. Thank you

Certainly there are no clear answers to the questions posed.

 

[HerpVenue]

if the snake was necropsied (spelling)

it should have necropsy papers.....not immunization papers.
You had the "immunization papers  since november 2001...and you never tried to get the "necropsy" papers.


by the way.  why did you take the picture of the net?
why did you not want everyone to see your immunization pictures?

good thing I have it saved.  so if the picture is not put back up for all to see.....I will just have to upload another copy at lunch time.................see ya

 

[HerpVenue]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if I sold you a snake as a female and it turned out male I would feel that I owe you something back. But that's just me.
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>Very good point Art... I agree with you 100%
BUT

If the animal is dead, then dead is dead...Period
no money owed.  

Show me a wholesaler, breeder, dealer who would give you money for a dead missexed animal, and I'll show a guy who makes negative earnings.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Art,

I have already expressed my opinions on this matter. We don't know each other and as far as I am concerned you might be the most honest guy in the world. But I have the same to say about Eric.

I agree with Lucas when he says:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">What is even more ridiculous is that you expect service on YOUR WORD alone.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Regrettably in this date and time we need more than that. It has been proven in countless ocassions. I guess that as you said you will both have to move on and learn from the lesson. According to your side of the story yours was probably a "tad" more expensive. But without proof (pic, frozen snake, etc.) I can also understand why Eric wants to do nothing about it.

Best regards,  <img src="http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''>

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Art and ERic:

I don't know either one of you other than your postings here.  As I mentioned in another thread, Eric should have probed the snakes on arrival to him in the first place.  BUT, you should have done the same.  As Rich Z. said, everyone makes mistakes sexing snakes.  I have done it, I am sure Rich Z. has done it, I am sure ERic has done it, I am sure Bob Clark has, etc etc.  It doesn't matter WHO sent you the snake, always check yourself.  Don't wait until the animal dies several months later to probe it.  
And as far as Eric being completely unwilling to work with you, I believe that is not quite true from what I see here.  He asked you to fax him any documents regarding the death/necropsy/postmortem sexing of the animal.  You have apparently refused to provide him with any documents.  No offense to you, but why should he send you $200 based just on your word?  Anyway, the deal was over a year ago.  As has been stated numerous times by numerous people, no one has a 13 month guarantee.  
Also, as I believe Ritchie stated, a dead snake snake has no value.  Whether it be male or female is irrelavant.  There is NO breeding potential for a dead animal.  The snake having a set of hemipenes is not what killed it.  Also, in my experience when it comes to vets, they always ask the client before disposing of an animals body.  

And before you go off telling me to read the thread Art, I have read this thread in its entirety, as I am sure everyone else who has posted here has.  
And I will say I wholeheartedly disagree with the snakes not being checked by Eric in the first place before selling them.  Had the snake still been alive when you discovered the incorrect sexing, I belive that you would have been owed a partial refund.  BUT I do not believe that you, Art, are owed anything at this point.  The snake is dead and cannot breed or produce ANYTHING anymore, no sperm, no eggs.  So I believe the point is mute.

Just my opinions, though.

 

[Darin Chappell]

Art,

We are not all "good friends" of Eric's.  I, for one, have no idea who he is and had never heard of either of you until this thread was started.  However, it seems to me that you are expecting him to make good on something that a) was a simple mistake (admitted by all), b) was made over a year ago (admitted by all), and c) is something for which you have absolutely no proof.

You had a document from your vet (I'm a little dumbfounded as to why is has since been removed...I did not get to read it myself), but even if it shows that a snake was examined by him that had died was indeed a male, what proof do you offer to Eric that it was THE snake he sold you?  I'm not accusing you of this, but people have been known to lie about their animals in this industry.  How is Eric supposed to know that this is the same animal that he sold you, and that you have not provided papers on a different animal while you have that female still in your possession?

Given all of the facts (I got them first) of the matter, I still say that if Eric wants to refund you the difference between a male and a female, that would be a generous gesture.  However, you have never answered the simple questions posed to you as to whether you had been trying to breed this snake to another male.  If not, then the sexing of the animal is completely irrelevant, and you got what you paid for...a pet.  If so, the onus is still on you to show Eric how it is that you have been harmed by the mis-sexing of the snake, and you have completley failed to do so in my opinion.

 

[HerpVenue]

here is the picture of the certificate of vaccination

Art I am confused on a couple aspects.  Perhaps you can clarify it for me...  

on another forum someone said
"I wonder if the rabies vaccination killed the snake?"
you said
"No dead before them. "
are you telling me the vet vaccinated a dead animal?


</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ritchie, signed document by a verified Vet. Get the facts
Nice smokescreen you're running!
Maybe you could work on the next OJ case!
This is a signed documnent from a certified vet. I didn't ask for a necropsy report because the vet had already told me verbally that he had no cause of death.
He told that the animal i purchased from Eric was a male when I bought it as a female.
I said: Please document that the 100% het. boa was indeed a male. He did so.
Nice smokescreen. Is this the way you treat your customers?
</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>

Yes you are right....that is a signed document by a certified vet.  A vet who is "certified" to have no clue what the difference between a vaccination and a necropsy report are.

The secretary who wanted to go home..DID NOT need to print out a copy of that vaccination report.  All she had to do was get the necropsy report if one was done...and xerox it.

If the animal was sent for a necropsy....it would still have a report no matter if it was frozen or not.  The report would be in your file.  Did you know that in a necropsy...animal samples are sent to the lab?

you said you did not ask for a necropsy report because you were told verbally of what the results were....

Which is easier?
1.)  Sir can you please document that the 100% het boa I purchased as a female was indeed a male?

2.)  Sir can I have my boa's necropsy report?

no smoke screen just getting the facts.

How do I treat my customers?
They get at least partial refund on a boa that is alive.
They get zilch, zero, nada, nothing, on a boa that they killed.


I do not know whether you are lying or not......all I know is..you should have gotten your ducks in a row before saying that he "ROBBED" you.

You asked in another forum what we would think if we were sent the wrong sex.
Welp I would think..."whoopsy I was sent the wrong sex"  I would not sit there and think....hey I got robbed.

put it this way.
you are colorblind.
you bought and paid for a blue car.
you went home with a purple car.
a year later the car burnt to the ground.
the officer says hey that car was purple.
Would you go back to the car dealer and say....
"Hey my car which burnt to the ground is purple...not blue...you owe me a refund"

p.s. Art, I have no clue who Eric is