Jamie Kaps - Guarantees, Signature Releases, & The War on Terror.

[Xelda]

Thanks for the off-topic addition.

No need to be sarcastic. (Do you ever expect long threads like this on the BOI to stay on topic?)

 

[Chris@TSE]

No sarcasm whatsoever.

"Do you ever expect long threads like this on the BOI to stay on topic?"

Is that supposed to be some sort of excuse? Nevermind, don't answer that.

Thanks for the additional off-topic addition.

Again, please stay on topic.

 

[chondrogal]

OMG!! I have received a LOT of gtps that have been shipped and they generally look exactly like the pics that your buyer sent you Chris!! Kind of nice to get them slightly cool... can get the babies in their tubs before they decide to get their first taste when they arrive!!!

I am so glad to see this buyer expose himself, a pic is worth a thousand words for sure in this case.

Half an hour away?! Sheesh, gas wouldn't have cost as much as shipping!!

I'm so sorry to see newbie scammers, glad you caught this one red handed!!

 

[Junkyard]

Okay, after reading all this with insults, foul language, and in depth information from the seller i will post my opinion. I have received DOA before because of UPS. I have seen many pictures of dead snakes an this website and others. The DOA I had the snakes skin started to loosen quickly and the eyes were clouded over and pale. My opinion is that those Chondro's look somewhat alive to me, baby Chondro's(from my experience) do not sit in the palm of someones hand that still. They have been very active from what I have dealt with. it does "look" like the snakes are cold because they are so handleable. Hopefully the fiance/wife put the snakes on heat as soon as she took those pictures and the snakes are not really dead.

At time of arrival I would say they were alive and they have no claim against Chris. If they died in their care than I would guess they did not have a proper setup waiting for the snakes when they arrived. Thus causing the death of the snakes. We will never know unless Chris drives over and sees for himself. Good luck with all of this, it does seem as though they have dropped this issue.

 

[Chris@TSE]

Alright......

UPDATE

Yesterday we had emailed both parties one final time with an ultimatum.... Stating that we had no intention of letting this matter drop and we would be investigating this matter. They were given twenty four hours to respond before further action was taken.

We are somewhat satisfied with the responses and thought we would poll public opinion on the matter. Genuine, or not? You be the judge.

when the package was delivered, i told her to take pictures of everything just in case of doa, so no this was not pre-meditated. the animals were not moving and appeared to me dead. i then reacted imidiatly with my claim. she put them in the tanks, hoping maybe the heat and water would bring them back....i was extremey doubtful of this. early the next morning she checked on them and they were barely moving. through this time, i had responded to many emails from you. i hadnt talk to her until that afternoon when she told me. around that time i figured ok well now i look like an asshole for the emails i sent you. then i figured let it fade away....when i responded on constrictors about " forgive and forget...in this case forget" rather then tell you (after argueing about this). at some time reading your emails about the signature release thing, i figured yea, i guess im wrong for not removing it. i will admit after i found they were alive, the thought struck my mind and i went with it....for a short time. then i thought, you got your money, i got what i ordered and hoped if i shut my mouth it would fade away...rather then contact you. i guess all i can say is pride got the best of me and i didnt want to admit that i was wrong with the whole policy thing and then finding out they some how where alive.


the reason i said "forgive and forget...in this case forget"


im as wrong as 2 boys (cencored)......and when i thought about all this i think saturday afternoon, i felt like crawling into a foxhole to just hide from it all. trust me, being out here you have alot of time to think, no ones mind can always be focused on the mission at hand, the mind tends to fade to other things in order to not think about the apparent things. i learned from this, maybe i shouldnt be so quick to react to things and get my facts straight before making myself look like an (cencored). im sorry for the trouble i caused and in your exact words "my ignorance". ive always been one to just wait for my problems to fade away, and in reality....i have another problem. i really dont know what else to say except im sorry i (cencored) up. you have no idea how long ive been sitting here deciding wether or not to click the send button on this email because of pride but id rather do whats right (click)

I DID NOT DISPOSE OF THE SNAKES. <----- THATS MY LIE, IM SORRY. I
TALKED TO MY FIANCE HE TOLD ME HE TOLD YOU EVERYTHING. I'VE HAD THE SNAKES UNDER A HEAT LAMP SINCE I'VE GOTTEN THEM. AROUND 6:30 THIS MORNING THE ARU STARTED TO MOVE. I SAW HIM/HER RUB HIS/HER FACE ON THE SIDE OF THE TANK. I HAVEN'T SEEN MUCH FROM THE BIAK THOUGH. I THINK HE IS ALIVE A LITTLE BECAUSE WHEN I MIST HIM/HER I SEE HIS BODY CONSTRICT BUT HE HASN'T MOVED OFF THE FLOOR WHERE I PUT HIM. I DONT KNOW IF HE IS GOING TO MAKE IT. THEY ARE BOTH STILL ON THE TANK FLOOR.
HOW LONG WILL A SNAKE BE LETHARGIC AFTER SHIPPING. I DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD TAKE THIS LONG, THATS WHY, ACTING OFF EMOTION, I THOUGHT THEY HAD PASSED.

So, who were the doubtful parties out there again.... ?
*Smack*

 

[Cat_72]

Imagine THAT.

*pictures Chris impatiently tapping his foot while waiting for the much deserved apology*

 

[Chris@TSE]

lol, nah.....

I just knew this whole situation was not as it seemed. Whether I beleive the new information or not, not important. All I know was that the claim was in fact bogus and my initial concerns have been confirmed. I can chalk this one up finally.

 

[liquidleaf]

Arg! Why didn't they just ASK if this was normal? Most people who decide to look up information about their new snakes on the web before purchasing know that snakes get stressed by shipping and should be left alone for about a week. When I got my first baby ball python, he didn't move much the first 2 days either. Sheesh. They could've ASKED. Did they not even look at the snakes to see if they were breathing? Even a stressed snake breathes, even if slowly. BLARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRG!!!

 

[Junkyard]

That seems to be good enough for me, they admit the snakes are alive and they over reacted. It also seems they do not have enough heat for the snakes if they still have not moved, unless they are like mine and move around at night looking for a way out than return to the same exact spot I last saw them and I think they have not moved at all.

 

[Chris@TSE]

The only thing that troubles me is that it is possible what was stated is true, but the following day when further emails were exchanged and legal recourse threatened..... it was much after the period where they would have noticed they were still alive. This constitutes a knowledge or intent to scam after-the-fact. Regardless, I am letting this one go I think..... I have enough aggravation to deal with

 

[Chameleon Company]

One of the more convulated paths to the truth that I have seen lately. It takes about 3-4 degrees of giving them the "benefit of the doubt" to see this as an honest mistake and an over-reaction on their part, magnified by Jamie's being overseas and going by info fed from his fiancee. But they came to the table and ate crow !! I know that batttlefield technology has grown leaps and bounds, and the ability to communicate with the folks back home is far beyond "mail call", but to lean on the doldrums of "being in a foxhole" and then being able to get behind the computer so frequently ........ its adding another degree for me ...... point being that that foxholes and computers that provide our fighting boys and girls with internet access back home are usually a little bit farther apart. Either way, I'm sure its no picnic, and can understand him over-reacting a bit. Nothing like 'fessin up .. "the truth shall set you free ....."

 

[Chris@TSE]

yeah, for someone stationed away from home he seems to have just as much access as I do, if not more at times.... amazing.

 

[Jim O]

Chris,

The only shred of truth in the whole story is that they both lied.

The rest, in my opinion, is their weak attempt to avoid legal action, civil for sure, and possibly criminal.

My favorite line may be:

I THINK HE IS ALIVE A LITTLE

Alive a little?

As for "letting this one go", I would consider insisting that they post public retractions and apologies on the forum where they started all of this and here on the BOI in exchange for your not reporting their attempted extortion/fraud to the authorities and for your not filing a defamation lawsuit. A Fauna membership is a lot cheaper than a lawyer would be.

 

[Greg Riso]

I'd Let It Go

It appears the truth, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, is out so I don't see much to be gained by pursuing it furthur. My concern at this point is for the chondros. My understanding is they retreat to the bottom of the cage when the perch temperature is to high. If a heat lamp is situated to close I'm afraid the animals may never be able to situate themselves properly and also may become dehydrated from the drying effect of the lamp.
I'd hate to see them die at this point and I'm not sure what experience they have keeping chondros. Perhaps you can clue them in or perhaps offer the ultimate "olive branch" to put this one to bed and actually check in on them since they are relatively close. If not you perhaps an employee. I realize that's asking a lot but for the animal's sake I think they need some attention before they really do end up dead.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

No doubt, Scammers!IMHO.
Get them Chris! Nail their buts to the wall.

Originally Posted by Chris@TSE
the "fiance"... or wife... or whatever, just replied!

this wasn't a fraudulent claim. although i do have to admit that i already disposed of the snakes. that is my fault and in all essence i do apologize. i have learned a valuable lesson in all of this from your company and from my fiance as well. one, cover all grounds before making an order because money and reputation are on the line, and purchases in person are often better than the internet. again i apologize and i personally will take care of the $530 to my fiance. thank you and sorry.

looks as if they wish to sweep this under the rug after realizing we are local and have every intention of investigating this matter. HUGE SURPRISE!

They will not be let off this quickly........ no siree.....


And its safe to say any claim they still would have tried making is done and over with, they supposedly disposed of the snakes. You know, those very same live snakes she is probably feeding now......... Go figure

I knew somebody that believed they were wronged would not have sent that first email. They did not come clean. They were caught and admitted it after the fact. They can apologize all they want to but should be labeled what they are, Scammers! Do not do Business With. If it Joe Smoe a few states away they would have continued their scam.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

It seems the truth has come out....mostly.

I agree, it still feels fishy. I'm with Dennis. I think it's more of "You've caught me with my pants down, so I might was well fess up". I can potentially see a newbie with snakes thinking they were dead out of the box if they were cold and lethargic. However, who in their right mind would continue to press the issue after they have SEEN the snakes moving?

I do think it's best to just move on, but I really think you could nail them to the wall if you wanted.

I am also worried about the snakes. I don't know that I would drop by though. Perhaps an email with important care facts, and stating your concern would be appropriate.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

This seems somewhat off topic, but bare with me.

When I got my first bell albino, I was seriously concerned that she was partially blind. She kept doing thing the first day that just didn't seem right, such as nearly walking into things and not focusing on food items. I got in contact first thing with the guy I got him from. I KNEW it could be just me not knowing how light sensitive Bell albinos are, and I said so. The breeder was genuinely concerned, offered advice on some tests I could run, and offered a new gecko (and I could keep the one with the suspected bad vision if I wanted). I agreed to run the tests, I waited to accept the offer for the 2nd gecko - because I KNEW it might just be me overreacting. I was able to get the gecko to weakly respond to food the next day. Later the same day, I was able to get it to feed a second time with a little more gusto - that was a load off. Finally, I did several pupil reaction tests with the gecko in question, along with other albinos I have. The results - the Bell was much more reactive to light than the others, and bright light seems stuns her. After being with her a few days I KNEW it was just me overreacting, coupled with a light sensitive fearless gecko. It's the fearless part that really through me off. Instead of closing her eyes and trying to run away, she would sit there staring at the source. I let the breeder know the results, he kept the 2nd gecko, I kept the 1st and I'm perfectly happy with it (she's sooo cute and friendly).

To tie this all together. I made a newbie assumption, and contacted the breeder about it. As soon as I knew what was really going on, I let the breeder know and we both got on with our lives happily. They COULD have made a newbie assumption about the cold snakes. But when they saw the snakes were moving and still threatened legal action, the officially moved from "newbie mistake" to "scammer".

 

[shrap]

I don't think any, well very little, truth came out. These folks were trying to scam from the get go. They started emailing two hours after delivery and on through he weekend. The whole time demanding a refund for "dead snakes".

Good instincts Chris. Glad you stuck to your guns and exposed some scammers. Wonder how many people have been bit by these folks prior to now?

 

[Chris@TSE]

yes, thankfully I did not take the advice of other members here

 

[shrap]

Also Chris,

You may want to contact Webslave to have the name of the wife/girlfreind included in the title of this thread for people doing a search on her name. Otherwise it may fly inder the radar and cause someone else to get burned.