Bad Guy Jared ohsman reptile mogul exotics FRAUD!

[reticguy76]

Understood. I have probed males at 6-8 scales many times. Each snake is different and physically made up different. While its not the norm, 6 scales can easily be a male at times. Hell, I had a baby ball python one time, I (and 2 other people, including my old herp vet I used to do relief for) probed 5 scales. Wouldnt you know, he sired two clutches.

And for the record, the bolded was more of a rhetorical question, not sure why I posted that. Ive been doing this hobby and veterinary medicine for a long time now, I know what indicates a female vs a male. haha. disregard that little question !!

 

[lanceheads]

Understood. I have probed males at 6-8 scales many times. Each snake is different and physically made up different. While its not the norm, 6 scales can easily be a male at times. Hell, I had a baby ball python one time, I (and 2 other people, including my old herp vet I used to do relief for) probed 5 scales. Wouldnt you know, he sired two clutches.

And for the record, the bolded was more of a rhetorical question, not sure why I posted that. Ive been doing this hobby and veterinary medicine for a long time now, I know what indicates a female vs a male. haha. disregard that little question !!

No problem!

 

[jims72]

Call me out on what? The fact That I never renewed my certification and am now going over to the people side of things? I did a video on this whole thing and put it on you tube. you can see for yourself its a male Im tired of playing games here Im not hiding a damn thing. I did not blow a probe through the snake. I have been around for 15 years and was taught by some of the best local vets and herpers in the area.jumping the gun or not ,Like i said earlier i would of been happy with store credit. no body loses anything then and we could of all went home happy.Its also funny whenever i mention this whole ordeal to anyone else not on fauna they agree with me and my actions. If Jared really wanted this fixed being over a week after the event,he would of called me by now and i would of removed this whole post and actually reversed it to him being a good guy. But i have not heard a word and action speak louder than words. oh and here are those messages where he says he did not have a way to contact me.Thats another thing instead of trying to chew on me why didn't he try and figure something out when he messaged me? the reason is obvious.they either knew they were both males or just didn't care and wanted to make a sell and did what was necessary to do so.

 

[jims72]

Reptile Mogul Exotics

Was happy to help you out tuesday, wish you would have waited to talk to me first... Posting on fauna changed everything. Just so you know carpets probe twice as deep as most snakes. I have probed both many times in the past few years. I may have made a mistake but I dout it. Too late for me to tell tho... I am really disappointed you wouldnt give me the respect to talk to me first...
10:55pm
Jim Hancock

I gave you the chance and explained I had to be back up to flagstaff by Monday morning.there is no reason you could not have instructed Damion on what to . All i wanted was a refund cash or store credit. I understand how to probe carpets. when you get two carpets that both probe over 10 scales you have two males. You have my phone number as did Damion so you could have called me if you really wanted to solve this. No excuses.
12:07am
Reptile Mogul Exotics

I am out of town with no phone can't get a new one till I get home. We have a no refund policy. I was willing to break that for you guys shop didn't have enough cash to even refund you unroll I get back anyway I can't instruct Damon or anyone else to make money. Damon probed them before you left and I probed them the day of sale b4 post Damon has over 30 years of experience I trust him. We all can make mistakes I just have to see it. If you want to bring them in when I'm back we can talk. But don't post bs and expect it to fix things. Cuz I don't play that. I treated you as a friend and held them for you even tho I could have sold them in the meantime. I don't need an excuse.
12:13am
Reptile Mogul Exotics

I'm rather disappointed.
12:32am




You can see here that these messages support the fact he was being dishonest stating he did not have a way to contact me but yet could send me this message and talk on the phone wit hhis asst manager. I have a zero tolerance for dishonesty. Why would posting on fauna change anything? wouldnt you want to make this right and have the post removed? And "carpets probe twice as deep as most snakes" actually they probe just like most other snakes where the make is deeper due to having hemipenes than a female.Unless i have mutant snakes where the males probe further then females! I have even called Dr Richard Funk the very same vet who cares for Jared animals and the very same guy I learned from. he agreed with me that anything over 5 scales is usually a male with some very odd examples out there. but when you probe them and they are at a depth of 12 its a male. He also agreed that generally when a male and a female snake are introduce to one another they do not battle! These two did! Yes I know the difference between battle and breeding. So I did like i said i would i posted the messages just as they were sent to me on facebook and now unless something changes with in the next 48 hrs Im gonna leave this here and jared will be forever known according to me and everyone i talk to as a shop owner who wont buck up to his responsibilities as a shop owner.

 

[reptilemogul]

It is too late because boi threads cannot be removed.

 

[Fangthane]

The fact That I never renewed my certification and am now going over to the people side of things?

Since a college degree is suddenly a prerequisite for proving that one has enough sense not to just jam a probe in full-force, can you post any proof that you are/were a legitimate veterinary technician? While I don't believe it has any bearing on one's ability to properly probe, it goes toward you building credibility.

This thread is here for as long as this website is still around. You couldn't have it removed, even if it was your goal in life. And based on how its subject has chosen to address it, I think it belongs here.

I think that the very wording of the ad casts more than a little doubt on just how certain they were of the snakes' genders. The seller claims to have probed them, himself, as well as stating that they were probed by his assistant manager; however, they blithely insinuate overt uncertainty in their own ad. I'm sure someone will spin it into having been just a bit of tongue-in-cheek facetiousness, but it's just extremely odd, and an eerie coincidence that there's now serious doubt (no matter how many would love to see it altogether discounted) that they were improperly sexed.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not seeing what everyone else is, that'd lead them to be so quick to sing the seller's praises. No matter how much of a swell guy that his supports may choose to see him as, his posts in this thread tell me a different story. He's showing a very dismissive attitude towards an unsatisfied customer, as well as the BOI; and has done a bit of flip-flopping, ending with the "I would have fixed it if you didn't post here" mentality. I think that that says a good bit about his level of integrity. Surely, that sentiment has made it into one of the Scammer's Handbook revisions by now. Instead of taking this opportunity to act in a manner that would lend credence to what his supporters would have us believe of him, he's chosen to use this thread as his final excuse.

 

[Lucille]

Since a college degree is suddenly a prerequisite for proving that one has enough sense not to just jam a probe in full-force

I don't see that anyone has claimed that formal training is required to probe. I do think though that if one says one is registered (no one asked, the buyer brought this up) that one should be prepared to show that it is true.

As for the seller, I alerted him to the thread on 11/3 and 11/4, I do think that since all parties had email capability, they could have worked on this issue between them even without a telephone, even if it was to just try to extend little courtesies so both parties would feel that the issue was not turning into an adversarial situation.

 

[Fangthane]

I don't see that anyone has claimed that formal training is required to probe.

Perhaps not "required", however, it certainly appears that the following quote is implying a corollary between him possibly lacking a certification, and his ability to properly probe:

I suspect your correct. IF Jim is a Vet Tech, he isn't licensed in Arizona. He may hold a license from another state, but can't work in Arizona as a vet tech (which belittles his aurgument) until he's licensed in Arizona.

This one also implies a direct connection between a certification and an increased ability to probe:

Are you certain they're both male? Did you have them professionally sexed?

The vast majority of the doubt has been applied to the OP. Much of it calling his experience level into question, as well as one poster alleging that he damaged the supposed female in his probing attempt:

So probably what you have now is 1 male and 1 female that can never breed due to internal cloacal damage.

A possibility which you didn't seem inclined to refute.

If Jim indeed is licensed as he claims, I think a complaint to the licensing board may be in order if this critter was in fact injured by the probing process.

My point is: Aside from half-hearted token admissions from the seller, few concessions are being made to the possibility they actually are both males, and that maybe one of them was tensing up when probed prior to sale. The speculation regarding any mistakes that have been made, are almost exclusively focused on the OP, and his implied lack of experience. As I said, I'm just not seeing what everyone else is. It doesn't seem nearly so one-sided to me. The OP never seemed to have a chance, and for all the talk of him having jumped the gun, I still think he had a valid gripe. And nothing that the seller has posted has done much of anything to make himself look any better, at least not in my eyes.

In a more perfect world, the seller would have had enough forethought to not put himself in a position of being a business owner that's out of contact with his business. In this same fictitious Utopia, the OP would have waited longer to give the seller time to fix the issue. Clearly, we're not in a perfect world, and neither of those scenarios are how it played out. And this seems to sum up what we're left with:

wish you would have waited to talk to me first...Posting on fauna changed everything

It is too late because boi threads cannot be removed

.
I'm sure many of us have seen similar statements made on the BOI. I ask you, is that something that the good guy generally says? Just some food for thought. Rant over.

 

[Lucille]

I ask you, is that something that the good guy generally says?

No, I agree, it is not.

I'm just not seeing what everyone else is. It doesn't seem nearly so one-sided to me. The OP never seemed to have a chance, and for all the talk of him having jumped the gun, I still think he had a valid gripe. And nothing that the seller has posted has done much of anything to make himself look any better, at least not in my eyes.

One thing that everyone is seeing IS the speed at which this Bad Guy thread was posted,(and with the word 'Fraud' in the title). Is it warranted? I don't know. Certainly, as I said, once the seller was notified of the thread, both had email capability, and the seller could have de-escalated the situation, and both could have kept it from becoming adversarial. I think that both parties could have done better.

 

[reptilemogul]

i was more than happy to help even after the post. i gave an oppertunity in private which was posted posted here by jim i never recieved a call. i am no longer concerned with whos right on sex. i offered to help before but jim only demanded money or a swap for a female both would have been fine with me. i just had to be there to do it. impatients on jims behalf has led to a fraudulent boi post that i defrauded him. completely not tru. also as i stated earlier in this post credit was offered and he demanded cash which simply is not our policy. i hate the fact that i now after several years have found a customer that will not let me please them. i also stated publicly for jim to call me and set up a time to clear this up.No call has been recieved its been over a week. there is no fixing the damage done by a boi post, it cannort be removed as some sort of bargoning chip. i would have been glad to help you jim. or i would not have held them for you in the first place. I have no reason to cheat someone out of $180.00 that would just make no sense. Both animals looked similar so we didn't know which one was which, I joked with andrea if I had to sex them again I was keeping the girl, still when Jim asked if was Deff a pair I checked and got one deep one shallow well say instead of boy / girl. I have made mistakes before but I am confident in myself enough I would never guarantee sex or anything for that matter that I was not sure of. It has taken me over 20 years in the trade to build my name. Why would I jeopardize that for $180.00. as far as how i handled thesituation i still would do it exactly the same way. This being put on the boi before I even had a chance to respond I'd absolutely ludicrous. Never even gave a hint of not being willing to help. My response was if he wants cash back or one of my girls as replacement I will take care of it as soon as I get back or at there earliest convenience after I got back. Even tho he seemed satisfied and agreed to the plan he chose to post this imidiatly after he got off the phone. I don't really understand why. As I stated in the private message to Jim a boi post is not ment to force someone to do something it is here to warn others of shady business practices that are not resolved . I am not going to be bullied by anyone and pushed into anything. Jim and Jenny have been customers and I thought friends for a few years now. I am very disappointed they would even let me defrauding them even cross there mind. That's not me and anyone who knows me knows that. I am at a loss for how to help someone who refuses to be helped and who has caused so much drama and wasted so much of our time already.

 

[Lucille]

there is no fixing the damage done by a boi post,

I think you are wrong. I have more respect for our readers than that, I don't think they let ANYONE tell them what to do or how to feel about situations posted here. There are MANY BOI posts where the supposed 'Bad Guy' comes out smelling like a rose.

Your reputation rests on what you do and say, not on what anyone else does or says.

i was more than happy to help even after the post. i gave an oppertunity in private which was posted posted here by jim i never recieved a call. i am no longer concerned with whos right on sex. i offered to help before but jim only demanded money or a swap for a female both would have been fine with me. i just had to be there to do it. impatients on jims behalf has led to a fraudulent boi post that i defrauded him. completely not tru. also as i stated earlier in this post credit was offered and he demanded cash which simply is not our policy.

Why not just send him a refund via Paypal now?

 

[hhmoore]

A couple of people have commented on the likelihood that the one snake is now an unbreedable female...so I'd like to pose a question. Understanding the (basic) nature of the suspected injury, why can the female not be bred? The injury is south of the border, so to speak, while all the reproductive stuff happens up north. Is there some functional loss that I am not aware of with this type of injury; or is it just one of those things that people say makes a female unbreedable without having an explanation (or possibly even thinking the idea through)?

 

[Lucille]

Jared, however it got here, the situation is here. You have said that you would give a cash refund:

jim only demanded money or a swap for a female both would have been fine with me.

I asked

Why not just send him a refund via Paypal now?

You then disappeared for a while, only to be back, and I see no resolution posted. If you agreed to help even after your buyer posted

i was more than happy to help even after the post.

Why not take the high road and give a refund? You can't just run away from the situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0xYc8zXvw

 

[hhmoore]

Warning: I like Monty Python as much as the next person, but such links are disruptive and off topic on the BOI.

You've been sort of frisky lately, Lucille, including a lot of "fun" things in your posts - you might want to rein yourself in before you find yourself with one of those infractions you dislike so much.

 

[reptilemogul]

I have publicly offered jim a chance to call me and set up a time to come by and resolve the situation. I have not heard from him, the ball has been in his court and nothing but he just posts on here. Im not gonna beg him and I am sure not going to paypal him anything. He does still have the snakes...

Regardless of the outcome the damage of the lies of fraud on here is done, Jim has taken in upon himself to call me a fraud publicly that cant be taken back or erased, when someone searches my name to "check me out" and see wether or not I am someone they want to do business with they will see this they wont read 6 pages of BS to find out the truth, they will just go elsewhere. If I deserved it that would be one thing but I do not. Jim is and was out of line, why should this go his way I still havent seen any proof they were incorrectly sexed. Just think you all may have your panties in a bunch for nothing so to speak.

 

[Darky]

I think you are wrong. I have more respect for our readers than that, I don't think they let ANYONE tell them what to do or how to feel about situations posted here. There are MANY BOI posts where the supposed 'Bad Guy' comes out smelling like a rose.

Your reputation rests on what you do and say, not on what anyone else does or says.




Why not just send him a refund via Paypal now?

Why would he issue a refund via paypal? Jared is an actual store, not an online breeder.... I don't know of any retail stores that accept paypal, maybe online breeders... He also stated that he would give credit, not cash (should be noted, none of the 3 local reptile shops offer cash refunds, only credit). I think some people here fail to realize he's a retail storefront!! Also, the fact of the matter is Jared is at his store 95% of the time. Jim simply waited 2-3 hours, after he bought the snake then threw Jared on BOI. I know for a fact that some breeders and store owners can take several days to even return a call or email. Look at the facts, Jim gave him a 2-3 hour window on Sat AM (Jared was running 4 booths at a reptile show in Cali, alone).

This whole thread is pretty silly, Jim should of at least given Jared the time and the CHANCE to get back from Cali and make this right, however he couldn't even wait for him to get home. The OP was pretty rude to give Jared 2-3 hours when hes in the middle of a show.

I know several breeders that use these fourms, ask yourselves, how easy is it to deal with a customer at home, while you are states away operating booth space at a show?

 

[sean]

yeah,
That jared guy is a crooked crook, he sold me $800 of grapevine and then I find out they are infested with superworms, that are hollowing them out. I told Jared and he acted it all out that he did not know such thing. He over exagerated too much and I could tell he was full of it. The employees are nice, but the only problem is him. He just lost another customer.

 

[reptilemogul]

I love how people make stuff up and just post it...
Sean if you have a problem with a purchase please give me a call and well work it out.. you inspeceted both logs that were only @$225 after Igave yyou a discount not 800... you listened and looked them over and seemed very happy when you left. You are the only customer I have ever had tgat had superworms in the grape vine. You also told me that they crawled in there in your cages not that you bought them with worms in them. Dont use them, Bring em in and show me what your talking about. If tgere infested with super worms ill swap em out. You didnt even give me a chance to fix things how is that being a crook... you bought 3 doz superworms also....
Sorry for any inconvenience.
480-307-6330

 

[wyldwurm]

yeah,
That jared guy is a crooked crook, he sold me $800 of grapevine and then I find out they are infested with superworms, that are hollowing them out. I told Jared and he acted it all out that he did not know such thing. He over exagerated too much and I could tell he was full of it. The employees are nice, but the only problem is him. He just lost another customer.

Can you please post proof of your allegations?
Why would you say imply that you spent much more than the 225 you actually paid? You inspected them and THEN find superworms? This is not a hard thing to miss...You do not contact him to make things right?

 

[reptilemogul]

Hes just a kid but I agree with your questions. I just feel too many people jump to the boi before trying to fix the problem first. Boi is for those that dont do anything about a legitimate complaints.
I just dont get how a superworm can destroy a giant piece of grape wood they may dig a burrow to pupate in but that would b minor then once they pupate the zoophobids dont eat they just crawl out and mate then lay eggs. I have bred them b4 and never known of them to destroy any wood. And its not like we just have supers crawling all over the store. Also we just got the wood in from my distributor last week I dont see how they could become "infested" in a few days. Before I get it its sandblasted and kilnd to cook any bigs that may b there from outside. I was really dissapointed to see his post as I really like this kid and we have very common interests. Im not out to cheat anyone! Period.