charleshanklin
New member
It sounded to me that He was implying the prorated refund Keff barringer gave him was stealing from him because he didn't get his whole payment back.
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Responding to email notices you receive.
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In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
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IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed
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Posted 08/15/2025
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Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.
Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."
Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....
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Addendum: 01/10/2026
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Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....
Bad Guy Jeff Barringer --Kingsnake.com hypocrisy
- Thread starter Jeff Schofield
- Start date
It sounded to me that He was implying the prorated refund Keff barringer gave him was stealing from him because he didn't get his whole payment back.
Charles, I was making an analogy. I paid money to be able to post x, if I am not able to post x that certainly affects MY terms of service. I was not inferring any kind of stealing. BTW, I havent got my refund yet, more than a week later.
Charles, I was making an analogy. I paid money to be able to post x, if I am not able to post x that certainly affects MY terms of service. I was not inferring any kind of stealing. BTW, I havent got my refund yet, more than a week later.
akonitony
Karma Ho
Sorry, my mistake....
Now there's something you don't see a webmaster type too often. Guess this is why Rich chose his rather unique screename? That's also an excellent way to earn even more respect from those that already have quite a lot for The Man, aka Big Meanie. And yes, I know it sounds like I'm blowing smoke, but I don't care; I try to call it as I see it. "Enjoy the ride!"
Anyway Jeff S., I think if you would play your cards right on this site, you will not have any of the problems you have had on the site you were banned from last week. But so far, I'm sad to say I have not seen a good pokerface from you yet. Six of the most important letters in the alphabet: L, I, S, T, E, N.
JETZEN
New member
Jeff B. don't have a clue, a L.g.florida-X-L.g.goini/blotched/measly/whatever is not a true hybrid....and should not be placed in the hybrid classified area.
Jeff S.,
be glad you're rid of ks.com and post your ads at this site.
John Sommerfield
ex-snake keeper down to 4 eggs in the incubator (goini-X-californiae)
Jeff S.,
be glad you're rid of ks.com and post your ads at this site.
John Sommerfield
ex-snake keeper down to 4 eggs in the incubator (goini-X-californiae)
akonitony
Karma Ho
Interesting opinion, but unbiased?
East_Coast
Active member
What I don't get is how does an ex-snake keeper have 4 Kingsnake eggs in the incubator... and in January...?
I am very confused
akonitony
Karma Ho
What I don't get is how does an ex-snake keeper have 4 Kingsnake eggs in the incubator... and in January...?
I am very confused
I'm confoosed too... maybe it's some sort of hybrid phenomenon of which we are not enlightened. Maybe we don't have the right degrees or experience?
JETZEN
New member
you will be less confoosed when you learn the difference between these 3 combinations...
1. hybrid
2. crossbreed
3. mixed breed
very few in the reptilehobby/business know the difference.
i'd like to know exactly why Jeff S. feels dependent on ks.com??????
John Sommerfield,
4 more eggs to go,YAY!!! no more rodents!!!
KelliH
doesn't drink the koolaid
What I don't get is how does an ex-snake keeper have 4 Kingsnake eggs in the incubator... and in January...?
I am very confused
Kingsnake eggs are..."eggs", they aren't snakes until they hatch. Maybe his females double clutched for him and he got a clutch late last year. Just thinking out loud here.
scaledverts
I like all things scaly!
That is certainly one opinion on the matter. But it is not an opinion that is commonly held by most of the reptile community as evidenced by this thread (an others on this site and KS).
That's because some of them have almost ZERO relevance to reptiles and really biology in general (other than dogs which are unnatural man made creations anyway). Unless you are considering "breeds" different species.
Which then means that:
hybrid = a hybrid
crossbreed = a hybrid
mixed breed = a hybrid
Alternatively, you could consider "breeds" to be different morphs of the same species/subspecies (this is how it is applied to dogs). In this case it still doesn't really apply to reptiles as it does to dogs (which are all the same species, domestic dogs anyway). Reptiles don't really have the morphological diversity within a species that dogs do because they have not been selectively bred for thousands of years. Even traits such as albinism etc would not fall under "breeds" IMO because there is a specific gene (or small number of genes) responsible for the color differences. Hence an animal can be heterozygous for a given trait. Morphological differences (such as those seen in dogs) are USUALLY a combination of many genes that all act in concert to produce the morphology. If you breed a poodle to a great dane, you don't get a wild type dog that is heterozygous for poodle and great dane. Instead you get a combination of the two "breeds."
Amelanistic Orca
Well-known member
Finally some common sense on the matter!! Yee haw!!
DavidBeard
The Louisville Lip
I was about to say....nobody uses the term " breed" for different species of reptiles.
East_Coast
Active member
He needs KS because it is the largest single site people go to when they want to buy reptiles. Now he can't reach people using that site.
akonitony
Karma Ho
That's easy, everyone knows hybrids were started out by Toyota and Honda, and now Chevy and Ford are getting into the deal as well, and unless you're talkin' of ways to increase hybrid vigor, the other two terms don't come into play with reptiles. "Mixed breed" is technically a misnomer, BTW.
That is certainly one opinion on the matter. But it is not an opinion that is commonly held by most of the reptile community as evidenced by this thread (an others on this site and KS).
That's because some of them have almost ZERO relevance to reptiles and really biology in general (other than dogs which are unnatural man made creations anyway). Unless you are considering "breeds" different species.
Which then means that:
hybrid = a hybrid
crossbreed = a hybrid
mixed breed = a hybrid
Alternatively, you could consider "breeds" to be different morphs of the same species/subspecies (this is how it is applied to dogs). In this case it still doesn't really apply to reptiles as it does to dogs (which are all the same species, domestic dogs anyway). Reptiles don't really have the morphological diversity within a species that dogs do because they have not been selectively bred for thousands of years. Even traits such as albinism etc would not fall under "breeds" IMO because there is a specific gene (or small number of genes) responsible for the color differences. Hence an animal can be heterozygous for a given trait. Morphological differences (such as those seen in dogs) are USUALLY a combination of many genes that all act in concert to produce the morphology. If you breed a poodle to a great dane, you don't get a wild type dog that is heterozygous for poodle and great dane. Instead you get a combination of the two "breeds."
WOW-maybe I am finding it surprising that more people dont understand that they are NOT dealing with wild animals but domesticated ones. Breeds. You say that its not relavent because not enough generations have passed between the original and now......but I say there has. I know the difference. Again, we are not talking about hybrids, not even morphs(though they are the ultimate reason for crossing)but simply ssp x ssp. Brooks/Goini is a common enough cross to be accepted, at least 5 top breeders are working on these lines. Working morph traits around among ssp. is all we are doing.
Comparing them to dogs we can find many laughable truths. How are "pure" breeds formed?? Many times a mutt x mutt end up as a "pure" breed, right?? If I am trying to sell a snake I want to make it appealing, eye catching, marketable. Sure they arent for everyone, nothing is. But I cut my teeth breeding locality Coastal Plains milks only to find that I couldnt sell em! Difficult babies, wrong market, whatever. The bottom line as a breeder is to be able to find good homes for my babies. I have "pure" chain kings I cant get $20ea for, why should I continue to breed them? All the "purists" out there simply arent BUYING. Loudmouths yes, buyers NO-LMAO. My idea of a "LOCALE" section instead of HYBRID section would certainly have made that apparant.
I like keeping kingsnakes, babies are easier to feed than tiny milks. It doesnt make sense to me to reinvent the wheel and sit on 20+ babies all winter like I have just to "keep em pure". Truth is the intergrade morphs are more variable and sell better, its extremely hard for anyone to argue the other side. I will still produce many "pure" forms but the market is telling me that mixed lines have merit! If I dont want to sit on every baby I produce I need to listen to the market and even be in front of it and anticipate demands. Looking at multimorph "pure" lines vs single morph "mixed" lines.....the mixed lines are both more attractive and more variable. This makes them more desirable in the market place. If I am wrong I have 20 "pure" chain king babies @$20ea that want to meet you.....
scaledverts
I like all things scaly!
See this is the fundamental disconnect between those that produce hybrids and those that want to keep their breeding lines pure. At what point do you consider a species "domesticated?" Just because they bred in captivity does not make them domesticated. I think the word domesticated itself is not the appropriate word to be used here as it has many behavioral connotations. Hence why people use the term captive bred.
Reading comprehension FAIL. I said breeds don't apply because they are different species! In order for a snake species to have "breeds" there would have to be many different (non simple recessive) "morphs" within it. That just is not the case.
You saying that there has been enough selective breeding of reptiles in captivity to produce specific breeds within a species is based on.........what? What ACTUAL evidence do you have for this statement? "I know the difference" just doesn't cut it.
Again, that is ONE OPINION. News flash for you here: "working morph traits around among species" is creating hybrids.
The only reason dogs even came into this is because another poster brought up mixed breeds and cross breeds.
So yeah, I agree using those terms to justify creating hybrids is in fact laughable.See this is the fundamental disconnect between those that produce hybrids and those that want to keep their breeding lines pure. At what point do you consider a species "domesticated?" Just because they bred in captivity does not make them domesticated. I think the word domesticated itself is not the appropriate word to be used here as it has many behavioral connotations. Hence why people use the term captive bred.
How many genes do you have to manipulate within a animal before it is a BREED not a INTERGRADE? This line I am dealing with is at least 5-7 generations captive bred, comparing them to wc animals isnt right. But they still arent HYBRIDS. There is plenty of room in between, and as I have pointed out I am not the only one working with them.
Reading comprehension FAIL. I said breeds don't apply because they are different species! In order for a snake species to have "breeds" there would have to be many different (non simple recessive) "morphs" within it. That just is not the case.
UMM-NO. These are different SUB Species, they are the same SPECIES. There are more than 1 of these "breeds", depending on which line you breed for different recessive genes(EX-HYPO, Albino, Lav Albino). Now it might take another generation or 2 to have multiple morphs expressed....but making double hets is necessary to get double hets.
You saying that there has been enough selective breeding of reptiles in captivity to produce specific breeds within a species is based on.........what? What ACTUAL evidence do you have for this statement? "I know the difference" just doesn't cut it.
OK, how many generations of cross breeding defines a BREED? Its subjective. I would say 5 generations is enough...and why should we listen to you?
Again, that is ONE OPINION. News flash for you here: "working morph traits around among species" is creating hybrids.
And yours is one opinion as well, why would I(or we that work with these breeds)listen to someone like you? If you dont like what we are doing just pass on the ad. We are far off topic.
The only reason dogs even came into this is because another poster brought up mixed breeds and cross breeds.
Again, you dont understand the word HYBRID. It is defined as breeding Species A x Species B......all the animals I work with are in the same SPECIES, and their subspecific ranges overlap. They are called INTERGRADES.
scaledverts
I like all things scaly!
No, I understand the word hybrid. I just don't agree with YOUR interpretation where subspecies designations mean it is ok to breed them together to make subspecific HYBRIDS or what you call intergrades. It's been shown already the problems inherent to this logic see post #76 by RidgeTop Reptiles.
It's a moot point in terms of this thread. I agree with Jeff B.'s decision to move your adds and after seeing the way your responded to him and in this thread I agree with him canceling your account.
I am quite sure that if you would like to debate hybrid vs intergrade there would be many that would respond (from both sides) if you started a thread in the forums (or found an already started thread there to revisit).