• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

JeffB apparently doesn't like me having KINGSNAKES.COM...

CHRISTIAN, you may be right about

your posting about leaving a site, but their are also other reasons. I advertise on the Fauna because that is my way of endorsing this site. I hope that my ad may generate some interest, but from the hits I receive, my exposure seems to be limited. But providing some additonal income into Richs Fauna site is just my quiet way of insuring that the BOI and all the rest of the fine work that is being accomplished..........continues. JERRY
 
Jerry,
Maybe it is pure specualtion, but I think it is quite odd since it all happened at the same time that Jeff became so upset with Rich.

The main reason I donot have any advertisement on Kingsnake is because I do not have a site NOR do I produce the numbers of snakes at this time that would warrant it, compared to years past.

I have also stated here and on the other board that I DO enjoy Kingsnake, but I don ot like the way it is run. My opinion, no need to argue/debate it.
How in the world have I dug myself a grave by posting my thoughts and opinions?
Obviously the raising of his prices are for his reasons alone. Never said otherwise. Just added that it would be, could be his way of paying for all this since there is nothing that warranted a 2-4 TIMES increase in fees for posting depending on which 'package' you buy.
I was not referring to the cost of advertising, as I am not aware of what it costs. I was referring, said this many times, to the fees in which one pays to post classifieds ads, nothing more was mentioned.

So in other words, what you are saying is that only those that pay for any given service are all that matter? I would disagree, I think ALL that frequent (in this case) Kingsnake are as valuable. If the traffic was so little and only those that had/have classified accts were the only ones that went to the site it would not be very productive for sales. This would then lower the amount of advertising that is done, lower the amount of people that post classified ads, and in the long run would prove that the site would not be needed at all.
In many ways I feel that those that frequent the site (MANY more of these than those that pay to post advertisements and classified ads) were not there buying the products that are up for sale, there would be no need for the banners and classifieds. Then it could be a site that was nothing more than a bunch of forums.
In short, what I am saying is this. Even though the consumer, in your eyes, might be at the bottom of the marketing pole, without them there would not be any need for companies to post banners and post ads on the classifieds. It may not hurt Jeff directly by me not paying to have my classifeds on his site, but if "John Q. Public' did ot buy form that site, the losses to jeff would be enormous because people would not need to spend money of these advertisements and classifieds if nobody was there to buy the product.
Am I making sense?
 
no BRIAN, your not making sense.

First of all, we dont know if these attorney are working for monies that they feel they may win. Its easy to sue, and in many instances these things are done on a contingency basis. Now I dont know for a fact that this is the case here, but the increase in prices that Jeff has adjusted on his site bears no relationship to this lawsuit. It may be coincidential but thats where it ends.

Secondly, I have never believed it to be a wise move on anyones part to antagonize any webmaster of any site that I may frequent or possibly consider using as a vechicle for my own herps. Apparently you dont seem to share the same philosophy. Well if Jeff is reading your posts or his people are compiling a list of people such as yourself, you will not have to worry about advertising on his site, because you will be denied. Rightfully so!

If you want to lend support to something that you believe in, by all means contact Rich. If you feel that strongly that Jeff has wronged you, contact Jeff, but when you start a soap box campaign as you have implied on this site and elsewhere BEFORE, a trial has even begun, then I think we have a problem.

Is it not possible that the suit that Jeff filed may have some merit!
Not that its up to me to decide, but theirs enough their to imply some strong accusations with some hefty payment if Jeff wins.

I dont want to appear as the bad guy in this thread, but I really think that the rhetoric has to be toned down. This will not help Rich, nor will it hurt Jeff. Finally, whether you like or dislike
the way Kingsnake is run, is not any of your business but Jeffs. You have the right to voice your opinion if you are a paying customer, but you are not!

Kingsnake as well as Fauna have their own respective rules and regulation for operating their business. They dont ask you for any funds to participate. Everything is voluntary. If you decide to enter their operations, then be prepared to play by their rules. Right or wrong as long as its legal, its their game. You have done nothing other than critisize Kingsnakes rules and you have never paid a cent. I might add that may include Fauna as well!
 
You have the right to voice your opinion if you are a paying customer, but you are not!
Click to expand...
Jerry, we all have a right to voice our opinions on how Kingsnake.com is run regardless of whether we advertise on the site. Aren't the customers that frequent the classifieds atleast as important as the advertisers to Kingsnake's success?
I used to have a classifieds account over there and made the decision not to renew it as a direct result of the way Jeff handles his business.
Of course, Jeff has every right to run his site with reckless arrogance and alienate both his advertisers and visitors. Whether it will affect Kingsnake.com's success in the long run remains to be seen.
 
$$$...???

You have done nothing other than critisize Kingsnakes rules and you have never paid a cent.
Click to expand...

Not paying for advertising does NOT mean someone is not contributing, financially, to this particular site. If I remeber correctly, Brian purchased a pair of Reticulated pythons from a frind of mine in an ad on kingsnake.com. This ad cost him, my friend Kyle, $107 and change. The purchase Brian made was considerably more than that. This money that Brian paid for the snakes contributed in future advertising and purchases from OTHER user of those classifieds. So with Brians purchase, he contributed to the overall business that takes place on that site everyday. He may not have paid for advertising, but may have contributed in other, indirect ways that you may not think of. When I post animals for sale I do not check to see if the person I am selling to has an account with kingsnake.com. I give preferential treatment to people who do have an account over those who do not. That would DEFINITELY be detrimental to my "business". As it would to anyone who usues that site INCLUDING Jeff B. Derek
 
Jerry,
Let me touch on a couple things.
First, you are not being the bad guy, I respect your opinins.
You said I have no room to complain since I am not a paying customer. Did you fail to read the part where I WAS a paying customer, when they charged $19.95, $30, $50? I stopped at the $50 mark.
My argument is not whether Jeff is taking the money form his raised fees to fund the lawsuit, YES it was something I mentioned and I will go with you on the CHANCE that it is coincidence. Fair enough.
How can you not understand business? If it were not for those people that go to the site to buy snakes the site would NOT EXIST. If people like the 1000's that frequent it every day werenot there spending money, do you really think people would pay for banners and classified accts? I THINK NOT. Supply and demand. If the demand was not there, there would be nothing! So although I do not currectly hold a classified acct, I pay for that site as much as the next guy by spending my money with people that DO have banners etc.

I am not here to hurt Jeff. I AM HERE to voice my opinion on a site that I had such GREAT support for. This was before the TRREMENDOUS censorship and yes, as I do not feel it needed to go up this high, the raised fees for posting snakes ads. Is this up to him to do so? OF COURSE. Do I, or anyone else have to like it, no. Plain and simple.

I may be wrong, but did I not hear you say somewhere that you were kicked off of Kingsnake, Jerry? I ask NOT to throw a low blow, but I will explain if I have the right person.

Don't get me wrong, I like a good healthy debate. I take nothing personal and enjoy hearing your comments, although I do not agree with all of them and I cannot understand how you cannot see how the business chain works.

Be good!
 
CHRIS, you raise a rather interesting

point. The answer to your point about the customers being as important to the advertisers is..................no They are not as important. It is the advertisers that provide at least some of the income derived from Kingsnake. Let me add the following. Many things have changed on Kingsnake. Not only has the price risen, but their TOS has become tougher and their policies about postings are reaching "zero tolorance". Their are very good reasons why this is happening. At this jucture I am not going to go into the whys and wherefores, but I for one am glad that Jeff has finally woken up.

now CHRIS, we both know that you are entitiled to your opinion whether written or verbal. But I think if you are as smart as I think you are, you also know that Rich is remaining silent, and now Jeff himself has been muzzled, so it provides no benefit at this time to rattle about free speech and political correctness that pertain to this suit. Believe me, you are not doing any favours by lambasting Kingsnake and let me assure you Jeff is not reckless in his handling of Kingsnake and how he is dealing with his advertisers. Its the exact opposite, ...........he knows what he is doing! I would be delighted in providing additonal information by having you contact me at [email protected] if you are interested in persuing that. That goes for anyone else!

I will say this much before I move on to BRIAN, that I am sorry that you gave up advertising on Kingsnake. Personally, I think you made a big mistake. I hope the opportunity is still their for you to get back, but you may have closed the door and that would be unfortunate. and now to BIRAN
 
BRIAN, I realized that you WERE a

paying customer on Kingsnake, but you ARE NOT one now! So basically if you pay you have a right to bitch, but you are not paying so you can only revert to your freedom of speech.

The 1000s of people who visit Kingsnake has nothing to do with the advertisers who are presently advertising! Their is no loyalty to those visitors. Can you understand that! Secondly, you are not paying indirectlyfor that site because your buying something from their. You are paying for animals you are purchasing. The advertiser is paying for the privledge of being their. Big difference ! So that argument holds no water. Incidently, this is not about supply and demand. This is about a serious problem that has plagued Kingsnake since its inception. It is unrelated to this lawsuit but as I pointed out just a coincidence. Their is a strong possiblity that prices may go up even higher until they weed out the losers that have dominated that site for the past several years. Thats the problem!!!!!

You may have me confused with someone else, I have never been thrown off any site. Especially Kingsnake. It must be a different Jerry.

I am not to sure what you mean by a business chain, but I can assure you that I have a all the necessary business sense that is required to deal with people in the business world.
 
Brian, Jerry, is there any reason this debate is on the public forum and not via email? This appears to be an issue between the two of you.

Just thought i would ask.
 
i think Brian and myself

should bring these thoughts to the publics attention. Their certainly is merit that relates to the subject at hand. Since you asked, kindly tell me what your reservations are that would require this dialogue to be private.

This "issue" effects everyone, and anyone who owns a site.
 
http://www.reptibid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?category=b_snake_pythons&item=1078949242

Kingsnake.biz is up for auction by someone "Marknnooga" chattanooga,tn 37411

"KINGSNAKE.BIZ DOMAIN FOR SALE.... Domains.com says its worth more than $1500.00....Bidding will start off at $100.00




KINGSNAKE.BIZ DOMAIN FOR SALE!!!!!!!"



And since the info is public domain and JeffB would already have this if he cared enough:

Registrant Name: William Wilson
Registrant Organization: ReptilesRus
[street address deleted, give the guy some privacy]
Registrant City: Chattanooga
Registrant State/Province: TN
Registrant Postal Code: 37411
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Country Code: US
Registrant Email: [email protected]
 
Let me try to explain how a advertising based website works for those of you who may be confused, and how it differs from what you would call a regular business.

First of all, sites that sell advertising cannot do so if there are no users of the site to advertise to.

Second, advertisers will not pay to advertise on a site that nobody participates in or visits.

Finally, a site that makes people pay for everything on top of making advertisers pay for advertising lessons the amount of people using the site as a whole, especially when you are paying to be censored.

There is a catch-22 involved with running a site that generates income from advertising. You have to have users to advertise to, but you have to have content/advertisements to draw the users in.

That is why a forum based site works so well. You allow the users to generate the content of the site by allowing them to post messages for free. This in turn brings in more users. THEN and only THEN can you start to market your site to advertisers. Now as the number of users increase, and you have a track record with other companies of their advertising working on your site, you can start to raise prices. The problem I see with KS is that the are raising prices even though they have LOST members/advertisers. That is a poor business model, and is often the result of a business that has seen a drop in revenue trying to maintain the same profitability. It is basically a death spiral unless you can bring back advertisers/members.

The confusion with most people is that they believe the product that the site is marketing is advertising, when in actuality the product of the site are those who use the site for free!(the users/members who browse the site) The product is not the advetrtisement itself, but the captive audience that is there for the content/participation in the site.
 
CHRISTIAN, the reason why Kingsnake

has raised their prices and probably will continue to increase their price is because they have been innundated with the worst kind of advertisers, the dead beats, the rip off artists, the losers, thiefs, and anyone else looking to basically to steal from honest people who need an outlet for aquiring herps.

Secondly, the site has also attracted the same kind of people who are looking to do the same but are not advertisers.
One way of eliminating alot of this is by raising the price until some if not most of these criminals realize that the "free ride is over" and that may in turn bring some law and order to Kingsnake. This is a very serious problem for Kingsnake, and one that I am sure is presently being addressed.

What I am mentioning is but the tip of the iceburg. Kingsnake has lost most of the legit buyers and sellers who can handle their transactions outside of Kingsnake, usually by word of mouth, with some advertising but now its not enough to know whom you are buying from , but who you are selling to!

I am sure without going into to much detail, that Kingsnake has had its share of difficulties with people who have lost monies by being attracted to Kingsnake and suits may have been filed as a result of being taken by unscrupulous buyers as well as sellers who frequent Kingsnake looking for the quick buck.

It is very difficult to weed out people who call themselves businesses without any legitimacy being required. It seems that the smart buyer looks for the lure or checks on the BOI to make certain as best as he can that his deal will not be a ripoff. Not a nice way to do business, but those are some of the reasons that I believe are contributing to the TOS policies, the rise in fees and probably alot more that I have not even touched upon. Its just food for thought.
 
I think the point about raising prices to weed out some of the dirt bags is valid. I don't think it's the only reason though. The irony is that the need to at least identify the scum in order to keep Kingsnake.com usage honest was met right here on the BOI. The potential synergy of Kingsnake.com and Faunaclassifieds.com is awesome. Too bad Jeff is not able to play nice as we could have had it all.
 
Jerry,
I am done debating this with you. I cannot see what is so difficult about this concept.
IF THERE WERE NOBODY USING KINGSNAKE, NOBODY WOULD PAY TO ADVERTISE THERE. Bottom line.
If there were not 1000's of people that frequent the site, regardless if they ever even post a single word ANYWHERE on the site, people would not pay to have their banners there.

Are billboards put out in the middle of the forrest or dessert where no roads are 50' away? NO, because it would not be business smart to spend money on advertisement (in this case a billboard) if nobody sees it.

Would comercials during the Super Bowl be there if there were not millions watching? Do you think Budweiser would pay all this money to make ads/commercials if there were not all these people (mind you people who are NOT paying to watch) if there was nobody watching the game? NO

People pay to have advertisements (ads of ANY kind) placed where they can get as many people to see it as possible.

Kingsnake is NO different. What would be so business smart if someone PAYED MONEY to have their name in lights (banners, classifieds, websites hosted by Kingsnake, etc.) if there were not people going to the site to see these names? IT WOULD NOT HAPPEN.

A little challenge for you. Start a website, or even a home page. Let people know that there is nobody that goes to the site (can be herp related or whatever you want), but you would like them to pay you even $5 to have their business name on there.
You would NOT be able to find anyone to do so. It would be rediculous for them to pay for this advertisement if nobody would see it.

So in return, I am 100% correct. If you, me, and the next guy did not go to Kingsnake in the volumes that there are, there would not be ANYONE who would pay to have their name on the banners and whatnot. PERIOD.
So in closing, those that go to the site and NEVER give money to Kingsnake directly are VERY IMPORTANT to the success of the site. Because without you and I going there, NOBODY would pay a fee of ANY KIND for advertisement if nobody was there to see it.

All done here!
 
The reason that Kingsnake has raised their prices and probably will continue to increase their price is because they have been innundated with the worst kind of advertisers, the dead beats, the rip off artists, the losers, thiefs, and anyone else looking to basically to steal from honest people
Click to expand...

You're kidding right? Look at the KS classifieds now and you'll find ads from Neil, Sal, Prehistoric Pets, and a virtual who's who of the Fauna Classifieds bad guy gallery.
Have you ever heard of Kingsnake suspending or revoking the classified account of a advertiser even after numerous complaints have been filed? Even Upstate was allowed to keep ripping people off there until Sal went into hiding....and he still is posting ads there under a different name.

The only sellers that the price increases ran off were the small time private breeders who produce limited quantities of animals out of their own homes....and that's where some of the best quality herps come from.
The brokers and scam artists are still plugging right along there, advertising the same animals over and over and over again.
Jeff raised his prices for one reason...because he thought he could. Who knows, maybe he was right...I guess we'll see.
 
just did a quick search of available URL's

on networksolutions.net , as I do almost daily. I am always on the lookout for a good site name, as I currently have many.. and just for kicks I looked up www.king-snake.com (sorry Jeff).

It happens this is already taken :).. and NOT by me.

Here is the WhoIs Lookup on this 'mysteryman'. This outta upset Jeff a bit. Especially if this guy does something with it:


"
Registrant:
man, mystery (MKVZDSWGJD)
12345 w 1st ave
Tulsa, OK 75412
US

Domain Name: KING-SNAKE.COM

Administrative Contact:
man, mystery (36496286P) [email protected]
12345 w 1st ave
Tulsa, OK 75412
US
719-321-1234

Technical Contact:
Network Solutions, Inc. (HOST-ORG) [email protected]
13200 Woodland Park Drive
Herndon, VA 20171-3025
US
1-888-642-9675 fax: 571-434-4620

Record expires on 25-Nov-2004.
Record created on 25-Nov-2003.
Database last updated on 8-Mar-2004 18:11:39 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS5.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.135
NS6.WORLDNIC.COM 216.168.225.136
"

Now if this wasn't just to upset KS.C, then what was? LoL.. if you notice, it wasn't registered til, let me see..today.
 
well

people stop going to kingsnake.com site will not really affect it THAT much,the sad fact is kingsnake.com was the first and some will say the biggest/best because of that simple fact,,,time will tell,,, i personally will never give ks a dime just because of all that has transpired,i still frequent some forums and browse classifieds and i must say from a business standpoint advertising dollars count but there does need to be another "portal" and i love this one but faunaclassifieds.com is not near as alluring as kingsnakes.com as far as sales appeal,i plan on having money for advertising this year on the net i will not be spending it at kingsnake.com even though my lil voice says they do get lots of buyers overthere i just cant do it i just hope richz builds one that blows him away(with a catchier name than faunaclassifieds.com,sorry rich no offense) i know i would if i had the domain and brains to do it,regardless of the name i will be spending my advertising dollars here and maybe a few other places but def.NOT the almighty kingsnake.com,screw that,,,,,thomas davis
 
Just a little down time research here at work....

Now available:

Kingsnaked.com
Kingsnaker.com
Kingssnake.com
offlinehobbyist.com

No lawsuits filed against "onlinehobby.com?"
or "onlinehobbys.com?"


This is an obvious case of somebody's feelings getting hurt. I honestly don't see how anyone can sue somebody else based on the use of an internet address. Does that mean that if you have a popular telephone number or street address that you can sue all the people that have similar ones? I feel sorry for everyone who's phone number is 867-5308, or 07, or 06, or....well, Jenny might be coming after you if you don't change it.

I just don't see it........

Todd Evans
 
After reading the king-snake.com post above by Stephen, I remember another case of this happening.......

There is the team sanctioned Steelers.com (for the Pittsburgh Steelers) It's an NFL and team sanctioned site. The moderators and administrators all work for the steelers organization. Due to the overmoderation of the board, and the censorship that prevents you from telling it like it is (after a 6-10 season, MANY people were upset) some fans a while back made their OWN website.

Anyway, there is a "competing" site called Stillers.com (you got to speak the language of western PA to understand) That is a no holds barred swear, tear them apart kind of site. Many people are members of both, they go to one site to get official team news, and the other to complain and get a cynical fan perspective. Neither of these sites care if the other exists, neither have sued the other for trademark infractions.
 
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