• Responding to email notices you receive.
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    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

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    Posted 08/15/2025
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    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
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    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

JeffB apparently doesn't like me having KINGSNAKES.COM...

I think that KS is seasonal, there's always the slow season, and then things pick up. I also did a wee bit of research, and the tremendous spike in traffic DOES coincide with the transfer from the old forum system over there to the new one. I'm sure that their traffic was increased by the ability to link to your photographs in their photo album, the triple photo system over on the classifieds, also the revolving classifieds, instead of the "wipe clean" at the beginning of every month.... during those "wiped clean" times, there weren't any advertisements to see, hence fewer views... once they changed that system, there were always lots of ads to view. I'm thinking that the new software/new forum/ and possibly new programming behind the scenes made all the difference in the huge jump in views. I'm also wondering if some of the smaller jumps and dips have anything to do with "payday"... the number of people viewing the classifieds might have a twice-monthly cycle of sorts.
 
So what is the significane to this thread

and what does this have to do with kingsnakes. com. Statistics can show anything you want it to show............pro Jeff or pro Rich.
 
HEY ARACHNIFIED,

"as far as i'm concered JeffB deserves whatever he gets for allowing and condoning scam artists on his classifieds, many of which are responsible for ripping 1000's of dollars off of real diehard hobbyists, apparently hes not in it for the hobby but rather for his wallet and whomever pays him to advertise on his site... no morals whatsoever, i applaud you rich for what you did. Jeff "

Where do you get your information that Jeff condones and allow scam artists to rip people off at his classified site. I would appreciate some additional information about the above quote.

What right do you have to concern yourself with what Jeff does with the money he makes off of this hobby? Does he need your permission to provide an explanation about his profits.........how about his losses.!!
 
Statistics can show anything you want it to show

Statistics may be USED to show anything. But the statistics themselves are just numbers. Nothing to be afraid of.

Gotta defend my college major. :)

Just remember that statistics are not the enemy, it's the people who use the numbers to mislead others that are. :)
 
so whats your point?

more than that, what does this have to do with litigation. Am I to assume that this information is to be used somehow in a court of law? What was the purpose of this thread and how does this relate to Rich being sued?

I am not afraid of numbers either, unless they are preceeded with a $ (dollar sign), and they monies are leaving instead of coming my way!
 
Re: so whats your point?

KNOBTAIL said:
more than that, what does this have to do with litigation. Am I to assume that this information is to be used somehow in a court of law? What was the purpose of this thread and how does this relate to Rich being sued?
At the risk of being presumed to speak for someone else....
The point of taking a look at the "hit" stats, might be that there seems to be LITTLE in the way of NEGATIVE impact on Kingsnake.com from Kingsnakes.com, as asserted in the lawsuit. If Kingsnake.com has suffered "injury" by the now "plural" site, then it is not indicated in the number of hits on the "claimed" and purported to be patented "original".... which looks to be a fair interpretation of the statistical data... but then again, I'm not a statistician.

I do love a good conspiracy theory though.
 
those graphs and numbers...

Those graphs are pretty and fun to play with, but that's about all.

Here's a quote from the alexa site...

" Alexa's traffic rankings are based on the usage patterns of Alexa Toolbar users over a rolling 3 month period. A site's ranking is based on a combined measure of reach and pageviews. Reach is determined by the number of unique Alexa users who visit a site on a given day. Pageviews are the total number of Alexa user URL requests for a site... "

If you didn't understand that it says that the ranks/numbers in the graphs are only from traffic generated by users of the alexa toolbar. A fraction of the active internet community. I guess most internet users don't like a third party recording and saving every little thing they do online. Any conclusions drawn by those figures would be full of huge holes. And it certainly wouldn't stand a chance in any court.
 
With all the talk about this subject is intresting but bottom line is simple. Kingsnake.com and online hobbyist is the main reason the reptile industry is where it is. im not saying that if there wasnt kingsnake that there would not be another such site out there but the work has been done and the time put in. Kingsnake.com is the reason the prices of animals are where they are and so many people are getting into this industry. Its just not too good of an idea if you are a competing site/buisness with another and so closely try and mimic it for whatever reason.Thats just asking for trouble. Bottom line is dont bite the hand that feeds you cause with out kingsnake.com fauna would not anybody to talk trash about or tell about legitamate rip offs. im sure if someone started a fauna knock off domain that it wouldnt be too funny then. i think fauna is very important to the industry but kingsnake is still the BIG FISH and with out kingsnake fauna wouldnt be as big as it is and lets face it kingsnake doesnt need fauna. fauna needs kingsnake
 
KS does need fauna especially since KS is not able to police itself. While some might be raking in the bucks because of KS in the short term, the continued lack of ethics in the herp business being allowed to proliferate on KS will eventually kill it and us. While Jeff is busy banning people whose intentions are honorable he allows real crooks to operate freely. How long do you think it will be before that comes back to haunt the industry? Without fauna there would be absolutely no opportunity to do on-line integrity checks. At least EBay, as screwed up as it is, allows for feedback from buyers to comment on their transaction. Seems a simple enough thing to do so why hasn't KS done at least that?
Besides that, I don't think it was KS that got this industry to where it is, I think it was all of us together that did it. Many of the people that helped KS get to where it is by contributing a lot of knowledge and support to the forums and making it a cool place to be have been banned.
 
Any conclusions drawn by those figures would be full of huge holes. And it certainly wouldn't stand a chance in any court.

I agree completely. I actually only went there to get the pretty colored graph, didn't really read about it, and that's my bad. Those rankings only tell us how both sites fare amongst alexa users and don't say anything about anyone else. Heck, Alexa says one of the most popular sites among those who frequent kingsnake is anything PETA related. Sorta ominous if you ask me.

Anyway, I agree... the graphs are meaningless in the big scheme of things.

And Jerry, the only point I was making about statistics, is that statistics themselves are not the enemy. Somehow I think you thought I was making some deeper comment. I was not. I was ONLY defending a science which, in its intended format, is very useful and not prone to lying. Having said that, one of my favorite quotes (I think it was by Winston Churchill, but I always forget) is the following:

There are three kinds of liars: Liars, Damned Liars, and Statistics

I even have that quote prominently displayed in a statistics book I published. Statisticians know that statistics can be USED to twist anything. That doesn't mean that the science itself is a liar.

As to the comments about Kingsnake.com being the "big fish" and how important it is... heck I like kingsnake.. I liked it better when I didn't have to worry about being {bleep}'d out. I think that the biggest shame out there is the bad feelings that have stemmed from this ongoing feud. It's too bad. Just too bad. I think if all of this idiocy was dropped and the two sites worked together the reptile industry would be a better place, and the crooks would move on to selling Mars-Wear or something else and leave the reptile industry alone.
 
Alexa says one of the most popular sites among those who frequent kingsnake is anything PETA related. Sorta ominous if you ask me.

Very interesting.
can you show a quote or link or snapshot?

I would really love to see this for myself.


It would verify (at least in my own mind) what I have always thought.
 
Ritchie I was wrong... it's THIS site that has PETA as one of the main sites people go to from here.... Here's the page with the details:
 
forgot the image...
 

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I would not be surprised to find that the business of KS is seasonal. If you look at that chart it appears that the abrupt increase in traffic coincides with the reproductive cycle. I think it would be natural for business to die-off somewhat as the year progresses into winter and then pick up again in early summer. This could be proven if we could see a little bit more of the past.

That was a 2 year graph I posted. No, there is no seasonal effect to explain that sudden jump during May of 2003. Change in programming? Yes, probably. Very CREATIVE change in programming if you ask me. Jeffie went from an HTML based system to a database driven backend, which is notoriously unfriendly to web spider programs and gets this huge jump in traffic??? Like I said... very creative programming going on there somewhat.

If you didn't understand that it says that the ranks/numbers in the graphs are only from traffic generated by users of the alexa toolbar. A fraction of the active internet community. I guess most internet users don't like a third party recording and saving every little thing they do online. Any conclusions drawn by those figures would be full of huge holes. And it certainly wouldn't stand a chance in any court.

I disagree heartily! It is by all means a completely unbiased sampling of traffic for exactly the reasons you state. None of the toolbar users are very likely to favor one site over the other, unless kingsnake.com had some big drive to get most of their users to use that particular toolbar, which would explain that huge jump in May 2003. Since this appears unlikely, it is an unbiased view of a group of users that would be visiting both sites in relative proportions. So yes, this would definitely have a bearing in a courtroom. It plainly and incontrovertibly shows that not only did kingsnake.com not suffer any loss of traffic during the time frame of the alleged damages, it shows an appreciable and fully documentable increase in traffic to that site. That one graph alone would get that case laughed out of court. What other types of damages would the domain name kingsnakes.com have been able to inflict on kingsnake.com??? Did someone type in kingsnakes.com by accident and somehow get so confused that they got domain hosting at faunaclassifieds.com by mistake??? Did someone post ads in the classifieds sections and somehow pay for a classified account that doesn't exist, thereby taking that money out of Jeffies pocketbook??? Or perhaps someone wanted to take out a banner ad and again became thoroughly confused about which site they were actually purchasing this from.

No, all signs point to this as being a frivolous (in my opinion) and malicious (again in my opinion) lawsuit filed against the owner of a competing website. And each and every one of you reading this who maintains a paid account on kingsnake.com is helping to pay the money that Jeffie is using to do this. Who are the investors that Jeffie has talked about for his site??? Do they agree with these types of tactics to try to keep kingsnake.com on top of the heap by trying to squash the competition in this manner??? Who is on the board of directors??? They agree with this sort of crap as well??? How many of you are saying "but gee, I need my account over there because that is how I make my money!!", and simply try to ignore this all or justify turning your head away because your business is much more important than any ethical considerations about what is really happening here. For that matter, how many of you are perfectly willing to give Jeffie the money he asks for a commercial account and or a front page link, then to salve your conscience, you may throw Rich a bone of $20 or so??? You people are voting with your dollars in this issue. You people are the ones telling Jeffie that whatever he does is just fine with you, because he offers you an invaluable service that you need, no matter what.

Rich, I hate to tell you I told you so, but I did. You should have closed this site down long ago when I pointed out the writing on the wall. What you should do is to contact Jeffie and offer him this site as a settlement to roll back the clock before you two got your heads knocking together. Is this site really worth the fighting in court you are going to have to go through over it??? Is it really worth it to you merely for the sake of giving all these people an entertaining place to spend their time while you have to hire attorneys and file court documents??? Step back and take a real long hard look at this, pardner. It's just not worth it.
 
websites or politics?

Dang Jolly,
If I weren't reading this thread closely, I'd think that you were making a correlation to national-scale politics in this modern age of technology and early projections. People on the East Coast voting earlier and getting projected results earlier and folks on the west coast possibly having to look at things and say "hey, what's my vote going to count now? Guess I'll just pass on voting this time because it looks like it's already been decided." That's a defeatist attitude and from what I've seen, Rich just doesn't like to throw in the towel. He's like a dog with a bone and won't let go until the bitter end. I respect that in the guy and hope/pray that his attorney(s) kick Jeff's butt so hard that the guy goes home with his tail between his legs.

Wonder what it would do to Jeff's source of monies if he had to turn around and pay Rich's legal fees for the whole fiasco? Would his advertisers/members accept yet another rate increase to cover the expense of his folly? He's not Seward and this arguement isn't about Alaska. This could turn terribly wrong for Jeff and his site/business the minute things turn out of his favor and all those people who have been supporting him for so long will soon suffer for his ill-conceived plan. He's put himself into this position and it looks like a big ole' cat and the little rabbit....... BTW, ever learn what the rabbit does when attacked by a cat or other wild animal? I'll tell you.....

The rabbit rolls onto his back in a position usually reserved for total defeat (sound familiar...Rich?) but then when the big, bad predator (Jeff B.) gets on top, the rabbit begins to rake and kick with it's hind legs, using it's talon-like toe-nails to gut the attacker and often kill it outright due to it's own overly aggressive nature and attack style. Let it play itself out and watch to see who's the little ol' rabbit and what happens when the alley cat tries to catch it one too many times.

David
 
I disagree heartily! It is by all means a completely unbiased sampling of traffic for exactly the reasons you state. None of the toolbar users are very likely to favor one site over the other, unless kingsnake.com had some big drive to get most of their users to use that particular toolbar, which would explain that huge jump in May 2003.

While it is unbiased it is inaccurate (or at least not accurate enough for a legal finding). Too many inconsistencies with the demographics that would know about and utilize this toolbar versus a cross section of internet users. A real world example is my own site. It shows a loss of 30% in traffic when in reality there has been a gain of 12.5%.

Internet traffic is notoriously seasonal across the board (both business-to-consumers and business-to-business sites will flucuate on different seasons). When I was in the industry of internet marketing I monitored over 80 domains of various clients (different demographics) and got a good feel for traffic patterns and ways to manipulate them.

Solution. Internet servers track traffic via log files. These log each request to the server for both web page delivery, ftp access and various other activities. While not perfect (due to cache systems) these provide a much more accurate guage of traffic but are not accessible to the general public unless the site owner posts them on the web somewhere.

My opinion (not legal just an opinion) is that it would be near impossible to show loss of traffic due to ownership of a misspelled domain especially since the domain was not owned by that person (so they wouldn't have a track record of the expected traffic via that misspelling).
 
This is personal

This is personal problem that goes beyond a lawsuit. What next this dude wants a piece of your metal. This will crap never end and god knows what it will escalate to. Maybe put on some gloves and settle it at a major reptile show. I would pay to see it. At any rate Fauna will most likely be the end of most second rate reptile sites. That includes more than Kingsnake.com. :throwup02
 
wow.

That is impressive. Based on that data it looks like Kingsnake doesn't have a snowflake's chance in Hell with their lawsuit. Even though a lot of us thought it was common sense it's nice to see overwhelming legal precedent supporting Rich. Kind of makes me wonder why Jeff's legal counsel would have even let him embarass himself like this as it looks pretty straightforward.
 
Re: HEY ARACHNIFIED,

Where do you get your information that Jeff condones and allow scam artists to rip people off at his classified site. I would appreciate some additional information about the above quote.

What right do you have to concern yourself with what Jeff does with the money he makes off of this hobby? Does he need your permission to provide an explanation about his profits.........how about his losses.!! [/B][/QUOTE]


well just take a gander over to the KS classifieds take a look, then look for some similar names on the BOI, i'll see how big of a list i can come up with to show you.. or you could do it yourself,i'm pretty sure i can look over their classifieds and be like nope would'nt buy from them from at least 5-6 sources, personaly i don't give a care what he does with the money, some people are in the hobby for the wrong reasons is all.you know what else i hate?when i go swimming and find a leech on myself.
 
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