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JENNIFER HARRISON GOOD GAL!!!

It looks to me, like someone took a large financial hit, and is trying to recoup some of the funds lost. I think by not taking a few years to make SURE all is ok in your collection and in your snake's offspring, your name in the years to come might be one to avoid. People who sell snakes they purchased from you, or offspring that in a round about way came from you, are not going to get my business. I mean this in the same way people who bought "Hets" from CRE, Eisenmann, etc., cannot unload their snakes.
 
David Reid said:
I think by not taking a few years to make SURE all is ok in your collection and in your snake's offspring, your name in the years to come might be one to avoid.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly - A few years would be in order to make sure all is well again - This is Waaay too soon - At this point, if one person should lose an animal or collection, that came from you - you would be finished...

Relax and take your time, till things are Proven to be all well.
 
Jen,
Try and think of it this way.
Someone buys one of your mojaves or one of your other animals, and on the off chance it dies or one of their other animals becomes sick, right away you will be the most likely suspect for the problem.
Like I said before, I like you but I think this could really damage your ability to sell anything, no matter how remote, if something ever happened to one of the babies you sold or a buyers other animals this soon after the scenario you just went thru.
Vets have been wrong in the past. It happens. Maybe your vet is 100% correct and there is no problem but remember perception means everything.
You do not want to be perceived as someone who is just selling off animals to recoup some of your loss. Look at this thread. That perception has already been brought forward and it could come back to bite you.
 
JenHarrison said:
Not when 3 separate vets in 3 separate states told me it was just fine to keep them.
Click to expand...


Oh - are these the same vets that have no real clue whats going on - or did you get new ones :rolleyes:
 
Tosha, I don't know where you've been the past few months, but they are the same vets that have been doing all the lab work, necropsies, and testing. Not the original cat/dog vet I had to go to in the very beginning days. Dr. Mark Gordon (Exotics and Reptile Specialist), Dr. Elliot Jacobsen (leading veterinary researcher for reptiles and exotics at the University of Florida -- and the top OPMV researcher that did all the ground work on the virus for the past 30 years), and Dr. Jason Brodnik (reptile specialist, also Wyatt's other victim).

Also, my females were bred way back in September and the very beginning of October -- back when it was still considered to be a routine RI and hadn't spread past the initial 2 animals. They only copulated 1-2 times each, and I stopped all breeding the minute we learned it was a more serious issue and potentially viral. Therefore none of them could have passed it back and forth. The females that I had left went on to ovulate in January/February anyway -- not much I could do to stop that. I asked repeatedly to my vet team if the eggs would be OK or if they needed to be discarded -- and they told me the same answer every time; that the babies would be just fine.
 
JenHarrison said:
Robert, the answers to all of that are already posted in the ad, on my journal, and in Wyatt's thread. We know what this virus is -- we originally were a little unsure because of test results, but that was until we got more information about how the antibodies actually develop. Now there is no more question as to what it is.
Click to expand...

I have read your website and blog and am curious about something. Your update on 4/12 says:

"Elliot e-mailed him mentioning a myovirus? That is something new that Dr. Gordon hasn’t heard of yet, so he needs to research it, but as of right now he feels that Elliot is withholding info until he finds out more, because as a researcher he wants to be the one to stake the claim on the discovery. He says this is definitely a new virus, so we have a lot of work ahead of us yet."

The next day you update with information from the other vet/victim stating his theories of why your test results came back the way they did and that HE says it is okay to go ahead with breeding, etc.

Have you followed up with Dr. Jacobsen? In my opinion, if the expert on this subject believes "this is definitely a new virus" there should be some serious follow up to find out exactly what you are dealing with and the consequences before selling (less than a month after posting this information on your site/blog).
 
That's the first person Dr. Gordon and I called after what Jason mentioned. He agreed, which is why we made the decisions we did.
 
JenHarrison said:
That's the first person Dr. Gordon and I called after what Jason mentioned. He agreed, which is why we made the decisions we did.
Click to expand...

You might consider updating your website with that information. Hopefully you can see where I was confused/concerned since it appeared Dr. Jacobsen's conclusions were dismissed with no further posts regarding them.
 
Just for a quick reference Dr Jacobson is one of the preeminent vets in the country. He has forgotten more than most DVMs will ever know. His latest book "Infectious Diseases and Pathology of Reptiles" is a great reference. Diagnosing vet illnesses is complex due to the overwhelming number and variety of them out there (how many times has a doctor had a hard time diagnosing a human illness AND THAT IS ONLY FOR ONE SPECIES OF ANIMAL!!!).

This whole inquiry shows exactly why nobody voluntarily talks about disease in their collection. I do agree that selling any animals this soon after an epidemic has swept through is unwise but ask yourself how many times this has happened (and you can bet your butt that it has) in other breeder's collections and they keep it under wraps only to sell you animals? Certainly some folks keep it a secret due to greed but is it possible that others are fearful of being ostracized and bullied into destroying their collections?

Hopefully Mrs Harrison will stop selling animals until some time has passed and a greater confidence can be had about her animals but I do applaud her for spending the time and money to investigate this illness.
 
In all fairness there is another email out there I do not see posted here yet, though I may have missed it.

From: Dr. Jason Brodnik ([email protected])
Sent: Sun 4/13/08 1:09 AM
To: Jennifer Harrison ([email protected])

Jennifer,
From what I understand, they will be susceptible to shipping [exposure to cold], and may have scar tissue, but any eggs would not be affected if removed and incubated. So they could remain in the breeding pool [my 2 recovered females]. The disease is spread through fluids and mucous secretions, so the eggs would not be affected. If an antigen test were performed, it would show whether any virus was present. An antibody test would only show exposure. If you did an antigen test [Dr. Jacobsen did], and it was negative [it was], after 60 days they would not be considered infective.

I think to recoup anything via Paypal, I needed to submit a claim by March 22nd, which was 30 days from my last payment, so I probably don't have a claim through it. Damian has yet to respond to my request from yesterday, he'll probably blow it off. I am not sure what my recourse will be. I will call Dr. Gordan on Monday, thank you. Have you told him already? How much is it?

Dr. Jason Brodnik
Certified Level One Veterinary Laser Surgeon
International Veterinary Academy of Pain Management

P.O. Box 33293
Northglenn, CO 80233

303-903-6603

http://ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5060&start=30

I got no dog in this hunt or any Ball Python, just thought more info would be fair to the discussion.
 
"Good Gal's" gone Wild!

Copy/Paste of the email by Dr. Jacobson in the bp.net link above, just in case it gets deleted over there.

To the best of my recollections regarding any conversations I had with
Jennifer Harrison regarding her snakes, the comments below that I
supposedly made to her are totally inaccurate. I have learned long ago
that people will hear what they want to hear. I told her that there were
other pathogens beyond paramyxovirus that can cause the pulmonary
lesions seen in her snakes. Without any solid evidence (such as
specifically identifying the virus in her animals), she made up her mind
that her snakes had paramyxovirus. And obtaining and using a vaccine
developed for use in birds was not what I recommended at all. Currently
we have no evidence that her snakes are infected with paramyxovirus. We
have identified a new virus that awaits sequencing that is in a
completely different family of viruses than that for paramyxovirus. We
have seen a similar virus in a respiratory disease outbreak in a
collection of ball pythons in another state. We have no evidence to
clearly dermonstrate this is the cause of the pulmonary disease seen in
these snakes, but the association in two outbreaks provides some support
for this.
I was told that she sold off her collection or some part of her
collection. I do not know if this is correct or not but this is what I
was told. I would never recommend than anyone do something like this. If
this is correct, than this is irresponsible.
Good luck and be very discerning about attributing comments to someone
without speaking to the primary party.

Elliott Jacobson
Professor of Zoological Medicine
Click to expand...
Jen,
So the vaccine that you gave your collection was a bird vaccine, and is not what Dr. Jacobson recommended at all. Well, at least the potentialy infected offspring that you have already sold are immune to the bird flu.

Quote Jen:
If someone is still wary and doesn't want to purchase from me, that is their choice and I would never hold that against anyone. That is entirely their right, which is why I have been so open about the entire ordeal and not hidden it. I want all buyers and all people in our hobby to be educated and aware. But I have many others that do understand what happened and what we now know about it, and have no problems buying my babies. That's why 3 of them are already gone. Also, I would expect most people to have stricter quarantine procedures now after knowing what I went through -- regardless of whether they buy a mojave baby from me or from someone else, that baby should still be in quarantine in a separate room for whatever amount of time before joining their established animals. That is just one more added protection for their collection, and should be mandatory at this point for anyone that keeps snakes after learning what can happen. If they choose not to do that (or do it half-arsed as I did and had to learn the hard way), then that is also their choice...
And as I have already mentioned multiple times now, all 3 vets confirmed that the virus doesn't transmit vertically from mother to embryo. The babies are just fine. Considering that one of them is the leading researcher on OMPV that did all the ground work, I feel confident in his opinion. If you don't want to take the chance, that is entirely your right.
Click to expand...
I wonder who the lucky keepers are that added those 3 gems to their collection are? Seriously, because I would like to put them on my "do not sell/purchase from" list. How do you think they feel about purchasing from you now that the star of your "vet team" has shown you to be a LIAR.
You are just as much of a "bad guy/gal" as any, and all of the people who you have bad mouthed on this forum. You lied, to sell potentially hazardous animals for money, endangering the collections of your customers and anyone who buys, sells, or trades with them in the future.
 
At this point there is so much conflicting information it's hard to tell what the truth is any longer.
I for one think because of the conflicting information, no animals should be sold or brought into Jen's collection any more and she needs to notify the people that recently bought animals from here that they may not be virus free.
Jen, stop getting animals, stop selling animals, and get to the bottom of this.
Right now it does not look good for you.
 
John E Dove said:
In all fairness there is another email out there I do not see posted here yet, though I may have missed it.

From: Dr. Jason Brodnik ([email protected])
Sent: Sun 4/13/08 1:09 AM
To: Jennifer Harrison ([email protected])

Jennifer,
From what I understand, they will be susceptible to shipping [exposure to cold], and may have scar tissue, but any eggs would not be affected if removed and incubated. So they could remain in the breeding pool [my 2 recovered females]. The disease is spread through fluids and mucous secretions, so the eggs would not be affected. If an antigen test were performed, it would show whether any virus was present. An antibody test would only show exposure. If you did an antigen test [Dr. Jacobsen did], and it was negative [it was], after 60 days they would not be considered infective.

I think to recoup anything via Paypal, I needed to submit a claim by March 22nd, which was 30 days from my last payment, so I probably don't have a claim through it. Damian has yet to respond to my request from yesterday, he'll probably blow it off. I am not sure what my recourse will be. I will call Dr. Gordan on Monday, thank you. Have you told him already? How much is it?

Dr. Jason Brodnik
Certified Level One Veterinary Laser Surgeon
International Veterinary Academy of Pain Management

P.O. Box 33293
Northglenn, CO 80233

303-903-6603

http://ballpython.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5060&start=30

I got no dog in this hunt or any Ball Python, just thought more info would be fair to the discussion.
Click to expand...
What was typed right under that email seems to be of interest to. Considering the email from Jacobsen states that there is no evidence that her snakes were infected with paramyxovirus.
The bits in [ ] are snipits I added in to better explain what he was referring to. The above info coincides with Dr. Jacobsen’s information on OPMV — the infection can be considered dead after it has been 60-90 days since the last death/active symptom. So based on the above, the few remaining animals I have left are OK and the 2 recovered females do not have to be euthanized. Regardless of the negative antigen test and their lack of exposure/infectiousness, I still would rather err on the side of caution and not ever sell/trade any of the animals that were here during this period to anyone else. After what they went through, they deserve to stay with me forever. As far as new additions coming into my collection, they were not present during the exposure so will be deemed safe, and can be resold/traded if ever necessary as long as there wasn't another flare up or symptomatic infectious snake. The eggs and babies I produce will be just fine. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
Click to expand...
 
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