Jerry Conway - Unethical Practices

[blueapplepaste]

i....what i sell them for or do with them is nobodys business but mine....think about it....do people ask you what you do with your animals after you complete a deal?....do they follow up to see what price you sell them for?....do they care if you trade or sell them?

No, but you lied to obtain those snakes. That is a problem. If you had bought or obtained them honestly and then turned around and sold them at a profit, then good for you. But you lied about your intentions with the animals. You ripped B.W. off. End of story.

[/quote].....no....but he has put me in a position to defend myself for no reason[/quote]

No, you lied. Your "defense" right now is just making you look worst.

....i think its very low of him to do this....

You don't think that lying about your intentions with the snakes and ripping of this guy is low? You would do well to remove the plank from your eye. It's people like you who ruin this hobby for the rest of us.

 

[The BoidSmith]

.... nowhere in my kingsnake ad does it say that i bred those 31 babies....i never claimed they were my own...nor the adults....

Did you say they were not? That you were just reselling them? What would you think your clients would think? Jerry Conway, the candoia expert, has recently hatched babies for sale. It seems to me you tried to use your "name in this business" to turn $5 babies in $50-75. You just touch baby candoias and they turn into gold rods, King Midas resulted a complete apprentice after all.

 

[Mooing Tricycle]

I AM DONE.....THINK WHAT YOU MAY....NONE OF YOU KNOW ME....NONE OF YOU HAVE ANY GOOD REASON TO BASH ME THIS WAY ....OTHER THAN TO ADD FUEL TO THE GREAT SOULS FIRE WHO STARTED ALL THIS CRAP....WHAT DID YOU EXPECT ME TO DO BW?....SIT HERE AND TAKE ALL THIS??....YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO BE A NICE GUY AND GET TRASHED BY TOTAL STRANGERS BECAUSE YOU COULDNT KEEP IT PRIVATE?....YOU HAVE NO CLUE....NO TACT....AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A GREAT BUSINESSMAN....ALL OF YOU CAN GO TO HELL

Well you lost another customer here just because of the way you have represented yourself on this thread. A clear lack of ethics and honest business practices will keep me from ever dealing with you in the future.

 

[jsrocket]

Jerry, if you have health problems, and needed to to change the plan, no biggie. The way you have handled the matter seems tacky.

Brian seems like the type of guy who would be more than willing to help you out.

You, on the other hand come off as a complete tool.

 

[OutLanderInverts]

everyone here has responded with a good, practical opinion. And their not here to bash you out of boredom, so stop repeating yourself . You could have logically explained your "side" of the story, as oppose to getting so upset. Like someone mentioned if you did not do something wrong then why try to hide it? Oh well...everyone put in all the points of matter, and pretty much everything was explained to you in one way or another. In the end as a Candoia breeder myself i see you as no world renowned Candoia expert. The researchers whom work with molecular level phylogenetics, and all the field research are the only ones who can be deemed experts. Your nothing more than a experienced herptoculturist. As someone who is always looking for more Candoia, you can count on no purchases from me.

you can only blame yourself for making this thread so much worse.



Zach Valois
[email protected]

 

[The BoidSmith]

hey dan, mind yer own business.... nowhere in my kingsnake ad does it say that i bred those 31 babies....i never claimed they were my own...nor the adults....go away...watch a football game or something....oh wait....i forgot, you are one of the many here that have no life and feel the need to bash me....amazing

OK, OK, I get the message Done! Now, I'm back, and all refreshed

But now I'm really curious and would like to read your KS ad. Is that possible BW? It would be nice to confirm how candidly you informed potential, previous clients and the general public how Jerry Conway, the well known candoia breeder, is buing and selling animals NOT produced by him. There is this suspicion I have that you used "your name" to turn that $5 baby in a $150 shipped "jewel". Yes, I know, you will tell us everyone does it, right? Do you think people will buy them from you in the future if they know you are just acting as a "jockey"? Why not send their money to the real breeder instead?

Jerry, this is not at all about you but against the way you acted in this instance. Try to take off your blinders, step back and reflect. Don't take it personally (if you can), think about how your actions reflect on you. You earned a name working with these boas, are you willing to throw it away just because of greed?

How much for a sexed pair of candoia babies shipped overnight anyways?

Best regards

 

[jsrocket]

uh, yeah. I don't know what to make of that post, nor do I care to try.

 

[lanceheads]

I think Jerry said he was done and we're all supposed to be in Hell, or somewhere.
Randal

 

[BWSmith]

As requested, attached is the first ad that I saw on December 23 (not sure if it is the first one). It is not translating from a screenshot to a stand alone image very well, so I dropped it into a Word doc. The offspring were born on December 1. I emailed Jerry a question about distinguishing supspecies that day and mentioned the litter being born. So it is unclear if the drastic discrepancy is simply an oversight or intentional.

 

[John E Dove]

And just in case there is any question on the date of bith Mr. Smith publicly announced their birth on the RTB site on Dec 1 ( http://redtailboa.net/forums/other-boas/39664-candoia-poppin.html ) which would make those 10 day old snakes in the add 23 days old for sure.

 

[John E Dove]

I only remember the RTB post cause I was drooling over them.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Thanks for posting the ad. Jerry don't read this post as an attack on you. Just read the context. The ad doesn't state they were not produced by JC, does it? So if JC, the well-known candoia breeder, posts an ad for 10-day old babies who would people assume were bred by? You have a name in the industry with the species so if "John Q. Herpman" puts an ad for candoias bred at his place and you put one at the same time. Who might people decide to buy from? You are using your name as leverage. Now to the age thing. It might be an oversight in your part. But when is the first shed in candoias? Is it reasonable to assume that at 10 days of age they are 3-4 days after it? Isn't it reasonable to assume they might not have attempting to eat before because they were in the pre-shed phase? Those 10 days make a big difference in other boids as they rarely eat before their first shed when they are still reabsorbing the yolk. I'm not a candoia breeder, does this differ substantially for this species? Now if the ad would have had their real age (3 weeks), wouldn't that have made a big difference for someone that has dealt with baby boids before?

Thanks

 

[jerry conway]

ok guys...this is officially my last comment here....i realize that none of you will be sending me christmas cards anytime soon....lol....but i want to publicly apologize for my harsh language and ranting today....please hear me out....i truly forgot what date the babies were born....when i made the deal with bw i honestly planned to keep the pair of adults and a trio of babies for myself....then i would sell the remaining babies to make some money back....i had broken my wrist on december 13th...i thought i would be able to obtain frogs and lizards to feed the babies but was unable to find any except for the few tiny anoles that i was able to grab at nite with a flashlite....a buddy of mine agreed to take all the babies from me just a few days ago.....he is able to take care of them much easier than i was able to....all 31 babies are doing well.... i have an ongoing kidney stone problem which has just recently reared its ugly head once again....a repeat of what i went through back in september and october....i wouldnt wish this pain on anyone...ask someone who has had them....i will most likely need an operation which will cost me 10 thousand dollars....i need to pay other doctor bills from my wrist plus this ongoing problem with my stones....im sorry if i offended anyone....i have had a very painful and stressful time lately....i need to sell some animals to make ends meet....this should have been my first post earlier today....but i felt the need to defend myself....i got very upset with all the personal attacks and overreacted....once again, i apologize to bw and the rest of you....i wish you all the best of luck with your breeding projects....jerry

 

[BWSmith]

The babies shed virtually as soon as they were born. Candoia is quite different from other boids.

 

[amazon]

This is my last comment on him.He tried to rip me off by over charging me on shipping and the price of a baby.He is a thief and a liar proven several times over.Like I said earlier one day I will meet him at a show and he can try to explain to my face why he tried to rip me off.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I believe they are listed on Kingsnake currently by DTS Herps. They are stated as currently being assist fed mouse parts at $50 each. It always amazes me when someone retails hatchling animals that are not yet feeding voluntarily. Different strokes I guess

 

[spawn]

Jerry, you sound like a worse and worse guy with every post you make.

Ditto.

Jerry, EVEN IF we are all wrong, and we had you wrong from the start, the fact that you've said "this is my last post" or some reincarnation of that multiple times, shows you're scared and not willing to let your last word be a cowering one. This is good. You should be scared. It's our job to make you scared and realize you've committed false pretenses and bad business practices, lest we beckon with what we believe to be the best way to handle the situation and what we hold to be true.

Calling us losers with nothing better to do and sit behind our computers all day and pick at your rep. is paradoxical and inane of you. Please take better care in the future to construct your insults so that they make sense.

 

[Wolfy-hound]

While it is understandable that you might be in pain, and really needing money due to unexpected bills, you still handled it extremely badly in your actions.
I'm pretty sure that ONE call or email to the OP detailing what was going on would have prevented all of this. A quick note saying "I'm going to put these up for sale, due to my health having a downturn, I still really appriciate you selling them to me... etc etc" would probably have made him understand.
Instead you chose to turn around and sell off the babies that weren't feeding(which was why you got them free - so YOU could get them to feed - unless I misunderstand), and further, put the adults that you got at a discount in order to help you have breeders up for sale at a profit. That all makes you look like a jobber who lied about why he wanted to get the animals in the first place.
When the thread was posted, you could have come in, and explained using the excuses of your health having a downturn, and etc etc. Apoligizing for reselling without contacting the OP about the animals he sold you to help you build a collection up would have been nice.
Instead, you immediately attacked everyone, declared that no one should have ever known, called names, and claim no wrongdoing. Now you have painted yourself a "bad guy" for your actions both in the sales/buys, and also in the dealing in the thread.

For my part, if it's listed at $50, then when I contact you to say "Hey I'd like one" and you change the price to $75, I'd decline and not buy from you. But if you have it at $75, and say $75 for shipping, that's your price, and I couldn't care less. If that snake is WORTH $150 to me, then I'd buy it. In this case, I'd politely decline, and go elsewhere to find a snake to buy. Just because the animal is what I would consider overpriced, does not mean TO ME that you would be ripping me off. Think of those silly stuffed flat dogs. Some people pay hundreds of dollars for them, while I'd give you a dollar each. It's what that item(or animal) is worth TO THE BUYER.

But, if you get them for free, on the basis of you getting them feeding, and tell the 'seller' that you sell them for $5 or $10.. THEN turn around and try to get $75 each for them(or $50 each) then it becomes a bit unethical. If you did get them feeding first, before advertising them, then good. If you did tell the 'seller' that you'd sell them for $75 each(or $50 each) then good. But you lied, in saying you sell them for $5 or $10 each, when you intended to sell them for much more, and didn't even get them feeding first.
I hope your health improves, and I hope also that you've learned from this thread a bit more about how to interact with others in the hobby. Otherwise, your business/hobby will continue to decline, until no one with any experiance in the hobby will do any business with you at all, including selling you animals.
Theresa Baker

 

[JuliusSqueezer]

I can understand needing money for medical bills. What I can't understand is why BW and whomever else you are currently stealing from should have to pay your medical bills. Turning a profit is the American way and there's nothing wrong with it if done so ethically. Turning a profit through shady dealing / lying and stealing is not cool.

 

[hartsock]

i thought i would be able to obtain frogs and lizards to feed the babies but was unable to find any except for the few tiny anoles that i was able to grab at nite with a flashlite....

Wow, I can see how when you are getting 31 snakes for "your collection," that being sure you can feed them isn't really a big deal. That is just smeared with "quick turnaround" if I have ever seen it. I have known BW through forums and I have alot of respect for him, but you know, in the great spirit of capitalism, I can see where Jerry is trying to make a buck. You buy low and sell high, that is common with everything there is a supply and demand. So really to me, buying a snake with the intentions of reselling at a higher price does leave a bad taste in my mouth, I wouldn't call someone a crook or a theif for that. However, that person lying to get that price, does.

Jerry, whether there is a "kidney problem" or not; why not have been a man and said, "I plan on reselling these"? And had given BW a fair price, even if it had been $20 a snake, you still would have more than doubled your money. But greed and lying and cheating are easy bedfellows for ones who don't have the scruples to be a decent person. That is apparent from the comments about the "drab adults" and suddenly going from saying you could only pay $50 to $300 when you saw your "mark" walking away from the deal. Good luck with that "kidney stone problem" because I know from my own experience with my late wife's kidney problems, it cost alot more than $10,000 to go in and do things of that nature, also, any medical facility will accept payments, even if it is only $10 a month and cannot call collections on you. So maybe you can point that out to the doctor when you try to barter him down in price, or wait, maybe that's how it got to $10,000 to begin with...hmmmmmm....maybe you can offer him a snake or two and get it even lower, because I am sure from the past actions on this thread that you didn't just give up the snakes. After all, you need that money for an operation, so if they sell I am sure you'll at least see a cut of the profits, after all, "you are from New York."

Have a nice day and stick with scamming little old ladies who don't know how to use the internet.
Scott Hartsock