Bad Guy Jim Flaherty of the Chameleon Company

[Pasodama]

Rich. My just prior post addressed that. But Dennis linked to a 3 year old thread back in the Chameleon Forum section. Saying that it should be here ? In this 3 week old thread ? How was Nichols going to do that ? OBTW, Nichols already made a couple posts earlier in the beginning of this thread on that topic. I do not think that you understand how we got to this conversation. Dennis was asking me to respond to a three year old thread, that I had not seen, about an issue hardly mentioned, and not the topic of that thread even, that had happened two years before that.

Jim,
With all due respect, I do not think you understand.
There is no "statute of limitations" on the BOI.
Furthermore, it does not matter where something stems from. Be it from the BOI, from another thread, from another forum, from somewhere off site, or even from someone's hind end.
As long as it is about the BOI thread's subject (person/business), it is on topic, and relevant, re. that subject.
Without time limitations.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Rich. My just prior post addressed that. But Dennis linked to a 3 year old thread back in the Chameleon Forum section. Saying that it should be here ?

No, no, no. Ron made the same accusations about you in the new thread about him. I was just informing you that it was posted here before but I never read it. It's not that he was accusing of something many years ago and I just brought it up. Stating that a three year old thread should be resurrected. He is accusing you of the same thing today and has done so in the last week.

He made the accusations several times and it wasn't addressed. I was asking the parties to explain it .

 

[Pasodama]

Whups, did not see Webslave's/Rich's last response before I posted.

 

[Pasodama]

I do have to add that I do not mean that threads should be resurrected, from years ago, just to add an unnecessary comment without new content/info.

 

[jishillencik]

However, I am still non-chalant about the accusations made. They were made by a bunch of yahoos. Or folks who listened to yahoos. All I did was wait for the folks who are the true keepers of the environment here, and the governing authority, to check me out thoroughly. I am in complete compliance with the governing authority, the FWC. That authority said so.

You got the impression of "seeding" from folks who are liars. Plain and simple. The truth is here now. You saw it, and your opinion changed. If others do not, so be it.

Jim I thought we had agreed to a ceasefire. I am not a liar or a yahoo or anything of the sort. Every statement or accusation I have made regarding you has either been backed up by your own words (via screenshots) or evidence from your website. Whether or not people agree with me is another matter.

Releasing non natives IS illegal unless you have a permit. I asked a very simple yes or no question which you ignored. Do you have a permit????

For the record, if anyone is off topic, it is Jim. He responded to this thread with the whole Rob Nichols and CGW topic as some kind of pseudo defense. Rob Nichols had no participation in the original thread on the "good" forum like you claim, although he may have been a part of subsequent threads related to the topic at hand I'm CGW.

At the risk of being attacked by Laura B, I am not trying to beat a dead horse but fact check a couple of things presented in this thread by Jim

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Just as Harald posted this in the other thread

Since the ibchams issue is a business complaint - it should be in the thread about Chameleon Company, not this one.

That if people there wanted to address it they should take it here. Well, Ron was making those points on that thread too just a few days ago. Instead of asking him in the thread about him I asked here.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jim I thought we had agreed to a ceasefire. I am not a liar or a yahoo or anything of the sort. Every statement or accusation I have made regarding you has either been backed up by your own words (via screenshots) or evidence from your website. Whether or not people agree with me is another matter.

Releasing non natives IS illegal unless you have a permit. I asked a very simple yes or no question which you ignored. Do you have a permit????

For the record, if anyone is off topic, it is Jim. He responded to this thread with the whole Rob Nichols and CGW topic as some kind of pseudo defense. Rob Nichols had no participation in the original thread on the "good" forum like you claim, although he may have been a part of subsequent threads related to the topic at hand I'm CGW.

At the risk of being attacked by Laura B, I am not trying to beat a dead horse but fact check a couple of things presented in this thread by Jim

Josh. I am responding to others here about content here. Even in your above post, you state two things that are false about my situation. That means you perpetrated falsehoods, whether deliberately or otherwise.

First falsehood: I "released" non-natives. No, I did not "release". That non-natives escaped was information that I volunteered from the very beginning of the thread that I started. This has now been pointed out many many times.

Second: You are claiming that I did something illegal. You are not the determining authority. I am already cleared by FWC.

Rob Nichols was absolutely a part of the continuing thread in CGW that fomented the falsehoods.

At the end of the day, all of your accusations of wrong-doing ended up proven false. You might not like that some animals escaped, but there was overwhelming claim by you and others that I had broken the law, etc. in that CGW thread, and here by you and others. I did not break the Law. FWC determined that I did not, and that I was in full compliance to their satisfaction.

As for truce, I gave you some time. You made no amends here, as seemingly you still preferred your kangaroo court finding Nothing. After I was fully exonerated. The lies were such that FWC, when evaluating the complaints sent them by your group, said that it would require sworn affidavits next time so that you and yours could be fined should you repeat anything like this again.

Your attack thread ended up having no merit in the eyes of the law that you attempted to quote, and which was the basis of the entire complaint, that being that I had broken laws, and/or hurt or destroyed an ecosystem. Two FWC officers cleared me any such accusations. They are both the experts, and the legal authority. You have yet to even acknowledge the BS of this thread. I have given you a pass for now, as I said I would. But you needed to step up. You haven't. Couldn't even man-up here. Not yet anyway.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jim,
With all due respect, I do not think you understand.
There is no "statute of limitations" on the BOI.
Furthermore, it does not matter where something stems from. Be it from the BOI, from another thread, from another forum, from somewhere off site, or even from someone's hind end.
As long as it is about the BOI thread's subject (person/business), it is on topic, and relevant, re. that subject.
Without time limitations.

Deb. You apparently do not understand. The topic that Dennis wanted to insert here can be inserted by anyone, It had been many posts ago already, although it was in the more typical Rob Nichols unstable mind mode. It lacked merit then, as it does now. Regardless, my point to Dennis was that I was not going to waste time responding to something he dug up in a back forum, where he was not any part of any transaction with me, that it was not even the topic of the thread that he dug up, and that Rob Nichols, a man of abhorrent character, had already mentioned here days ago.

That said, I answered Dennis regardless, out of respect, as noted. That it had been a 2010 transaction, dealt with in 2011, and that the complaint that Dennis saw lacked all merit in 2012, to include that it was not even brought to my attention by those posting it. 3 years ago.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Just as Harald posted this in the other thread


That if people there wanted to address it they should take it here. Well, Ron was making those points on that thread too just a few days ago. Instead of asking him in the thread about him I asked here.

Who is Ron ? And I did address the IBD chams issue. Where it lay.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I do have to add that I do not mean that threads should be resurrected, from years ago, just to add an unnecessary comment without new content/info.

That was essentially the position that I took. I also explained why I thought it better as a stand alone topic. No one has disputed that logic. Anyone can put whatever they want here. And it can be ignored just as easily.

 

[jishillencik]

First falsehood: I "released" non-natives. No, I did not "release". That non-natives escaped was information that I volunteered from the very beginning of the thread that I started. This has now been pointed out many many times.

Second: You are claiming that I did something illegal. You are not the determining authority. I am already cleared by FWC.

In response to your first point:

re·lease
rəˈlēs/
verb
1. Allow or enable to escape from confinement; set free.

Animals escaped your facility, you admit to this as well. You have designed the cages. The cage design allows for young chameleons to escape. You have allowed animals to escape, which is the same thing as releasing the animals by definition. I have used the word correctly.

2) You have told several people to examine the FWC website. I have and it clearly states that the release of ANY non native species IS illegal without a permit. I will ask again, do you have a permit (if yes, evidence would be appropriate).

 

[jishillencik]

As for truce, I gave you some time. You made no amends here, as seemingly you still preferred your kangaroo court finding Nothing. After I was fully exonerated. The lies were such that FWC, when evaluating the complaints sent them by your group, said that it would require sworn affidavits next time so that you and yours could be fined should you repeat anything like this

As per our discussed truce, there was no specification regarding a deadline for me to make a public statement, I assumed that was left up to my discretion. You have broken your word and called me a liar. I clearly stipulated that there would be recourse for false statements made against me.

As I am a man of my word, I will make good on your terms.

The FWC investigated your facility and found that you had not broken the law. That was one of your requirements for a cessation of hostilities. I have not denied this at all, but there you go I have stated it publicly. It does not however remove my reason for concern. Scientific evidence in posts 78 and 79 has been provided and the papers suggest a cause for concern regarding non native chameleon species in the US.

You wanted a public apology but I only offered a ceasefire. You accepted. You violated those conditions. Your character seems to be as compromised as your business ethics.

I will now post on your BOI regarding Rob Nichols, and denounce him like you have asked, but not before I further show your character on this thread.

 

[jishillencik]

Jim is just as bad as Rob Nichols, however his insults are veiled at first. If you disagree with Jim, you are either misinformed, did not read the thread, or did not understand the issue at hand. This is of course a direct insult to a person's intelligence.

When you refuse to stoop down to his level, he continues his personal insults with terms like scumbag, butt buddy with Rob Nichols, miscreant, or jack***. While I understand they may not be as offensive as some of the things Rob Nichols has said, they certainly do not give him room to criticize and start a BOI on Rob at all. You know what they say about people that live in glass houses...

 

[Chameleon Company]

As per our discussed truce, there was no specification regarding a deadline for me to make a public statement, I assumed that was left up to my discretion. You have broken your word and called me a liar. I clearly stipulated that there would be recourse for false statements made against me.

As I am a man of my word, I will make good on your terms.

The FWC investigated your facility and found that you had not broken the law. That was one of your requirements for a cessation of hostilities. I have not denied this at all, but there you go I have stated it publicly. It does not however remove my reason for concern. Scientific evidence in posts 78 and 79 has been provided and the papers suggest a cause for concern regarding non native chameleon species in the US.

You wanted a public apology but I only offered a ceasefire. You accepted. You violated those conditions. Your character seems to be as compromised as your business ethics.

I will now post on your BOI regarding Rob Nichols, and denounce him like you have asked, but not before I further show your character on this thread.

Well then, knock yourself out. You were not called a liar here, but I did refer to many collectively who lodged false complaints against me as "liars", if that shoe fits. You could have extricated yourself from them, but did not.

You still post as though you know the law better than those charged to enforce it. Even now, after the fact.

There was no sale or service event here, where standard protocols would have governed. Rather, you took my candid and voluntary posts in a thread that I started so as to inform others, and decided that you were some sort of kangaroo court judge and jury. You did not go to FWC, and then await their findings. Which then might have given your allegations true merit. Nope, you attacked me first, my business, and by extension, my family livelihood, as you could not wait for the FWC to get to the bottom of it, or at least give them reasonable opportunity Nope. That is not how a flash-mob operates.

You grossly misstated the terms of the "truce". Step back and look at what you attempted here, as I described above. This kangaroo court of false charges was started by you. Hope you can understand where the culpability lies here.

You can still do better. But I am not real optimistic. Just a little bit. Maybe.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Jim is just as bad as Rob Nichols, however his insults are veiled at first. If you disagree with Jim, you are either misinformed, did not read the thread, or did not understand the issue at hand. This is of course a direct insult to a person's intelligence.

When you refuse to stoop down to his level, he continues his personal insults with terms like scumbag, butt buddy with Rob Nichols, miscreant, or jack***. While I understand they may not be as offensive as some of the things Rob Nichols has said, they certainly do not give him room to criticize and start a BOI on Rob at all. You know what they say about people that live in glass houses...

In threads where your same CGW associates called my Mother a "hoe", and where others were fine with Nichols calling all sorts of the wives and GF's of others every wretched name in the book.

Cry me a river Josh. You aren't changing. This is the company that you have kept.

 

[Herpguy11]

Jim is just as bad as Rob Nichols, however his insults are veiled at first. If you disagree with Jim, you are either misinformed, did not read the thread, or did not understand the issue at hand. This is of course a direct insult to a person's intelligence.

I cannot agree with you more. He has the attitude of "If you do not agree with me 100% you are an idiot." It is rather childish.


Anyways Jim, stop trying to detract from the purpose on this thread by talking about how some other people, like Rob, have acted in a less than savory manner. That is not the point here. The point is that you nonchalantly allowed animals to escape (which by the above definition is releasing) and you show no remorse nor an acknowledgement for how what you have done is completely irresponsible AND ultimately harmful to the environment.

Having FWC come AFTER many animals have been released and them saying your cages were secure at that time does not prove that you have not done anything wrong, like you claim.

 

[Chameleon Company]

I cannot agree with you more. He has the attitude of "If you do not agree with me 100% you are an idiot." It is rather childish.


Anyways Jim, stop trying to detract from the purpose on this thread by talking about how some other people, like Rob, have acted in a less than savory manner. That is not the point here. The point is that you nonchalantly allowed animals to escape (which by the above definition is releasing) and you show no remorse nor an acknowledgement for how what you have done is completely irresponsible AND ultimately harmful to the environment.

Having FWC come AFTER many animals have been released and them saying your cages were secure at that time does not prove that you have not done anything wrong, like you claim.

You are just another example of the kangaroo court mindset, which is one of ignorance. You claim to know how things were before FWC came, and then suggest that they are so stupid that I somehow snow-jobbed them. These guys are professionals. Call them since you are so smart !!

Guess what genius. They, and many others in this thread far more experienced than you, disagree with you. Get over it.

 

[Pasodama]

Posting the definitions, and molding/interpreting them as something other, is "overreaching" in what the term 'release' actually means.

Release is purposely done by someone who has the intent of releasing and, thereby, actively does something that enables the purposeful release.

Let's take the example of releasing inmates.
If we have an escape, from jail, we do not call him/her a released inmate. We call that inmate an escapee (one who has escaped).
A released inmate is where we purposely unlock a jail cell, purposely open the jail cell door (to enable inmate to walk out), purposely place them back into civilian clothing, and purposely unlock & open an outside door to enable the, now, ex-inmate to leave the facility.
IOW A release is done via purposeful actions, of the keeper, toward that end.
An escape is not done via purposeful actions, of the keeper, toward that end. It is done via the escapee's own actions by taking advantage of a flaw that it/they have found.

 

[Pasodama]

BTW Sure, someone can state that a flaw enabled the release of something/someone. However, there is a big difference between saying that a person released something/someone vs. that person having a flawed enclosure that permitted the release/escape.

 

[sapphira80]

The FWC doesn't use google to define their rules, and the difference between "escape" and "release" is obviously even to children. If arguments have devolved to point of using semantics to prove a point, I think it's clear whose side the evidence falls on.



Wasn't this whole issue about ChamCo supposedly releasing panthers? Which was investigated by the FWC? And evidently the claim was unfounded since FWC took no action.



I don't understand what the goal is now? People wanted ChamCo investigated by the FWC? Okay, well that happened. If you continue the argument after resolution had been reached (and according to the FWC it has) then you're turning your criticism into a witch hunt.



Repeating over and over that someone had done something that the state authority has concluded that they did not do does not give anymore validity to your position. Neither does bringing up a supposed transaction that occurred five years ago, for which no evidence has been presented.