JoeP at DGS

[EMERALDGUY33]

Good......

I don't need to read your posts to make a decision as to who is a good or a bad guy. Actions speak louder then words.. and.. your actions have already (and continue) speaking for you.

Good. Please add me to your "Do not do business with" list. Frankly, I do not care how I appear to you. There is only a very select group I deal with anyways. I am a private keeper and do not sell anything. So, to be quite honest, you and your feelings are of little concern to me. I am intentionally trying to come off like a jerk on this one.

I'm glad you have such a good rapport with Joe. More power to you. But keep this in mind. When he screws you over, and he will, don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

Thank you and have a good night.

 

[WebSlave]

don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

No, I'm afraid I have to tell you that is not going to happen. Everyone is entitled to their opinions here as long as they are civil about it. If someone has something to post, then I don't want them to be intimidated by anyone else here or feel that they will get flak simply from stating facts as they understand them, or opinions, about a third party.

Differing opinions are to be expected, and that is what is needed to provide a balanced appraisal of someone to anyone interested in doing business with that someone. No matter how strongly you may feel about someone, I do not want anyone with a differing opinion attacked or badgered about it.

I hope I am clear about this.

 

[EMERALDGUY33]

Crystal....

But......

I agree. He has the right to offer a differing opinion. I am not belittling him for it. Nor begrudging him his opinion. I flat out disagree with his opinion, but that is the beauty of free speech.

What I am refering to is not that his opinion differs. It is the fact that he has had more than ample warning. He will get screwed over. No doubt in my mind. Then what? He comes on here or elsewhere and whines and complains about being done wrong? Plays both sides of the fence? If I can help it, not on my watch.

I will respect your wishes as you have made it abundantly clear that this is YOUR site.

Have a good night, Webslave.

 

[The Dark Grove]

I'd have to second Webslave on that one. EVERYBODY has the equal right to come here and post their experiences and/or opinions, whether I like it or not.

To Scott,

Initially my e-mails/dealings with JoeP were of a simple nature....he was poaching my ads off of Kingsnake.com and adding them to his site without my permission OR EVEN MY KNOWLEDGE. I found out after someone e-mailed me about posting on his forum. My e-mail was polite and to the point in that I didn't want my ads placed without my permission. He respected my request and asked why I didn't want my ads on his site. In reply I directly and politely explained that currently there seems to be far too much negative things floating around about him and his closest "friends", this said I told him that I'm staying neutral (on the fence) since I haven't had a bad experience from him but that he also hasn't posted under his own name on any forums to address these negative things, which I find odd as any person would take the time to correct errors regarding the things being said.

I stayed neutral until Tim W. jumped on KS and posted a really dumb and uncalled for post under mine which was in response to a newbie asking for information on Aboreals. I e-mailed Joe and told him I'm no longer neutral because of this. After the occasional e-mail from complete strangers , some with the name of "Boelanco" (get original), I'm fully sucked into this mess because of one guy who can't post a reply on a forum he can't control or even use his own name in public.


Scott, if you really want an unbiased side on this forum then get JoePee to start posting back. Your posts don't count for jack $hit any more than mine do but in order to get what you want (an side not "biased" towards him) you need to get JoePee to post so we get it from the horse's mouth.

Doesn't the little fact that he won't post here under his own name bother you or seem strange in the least bit?




Ralph Chapman

 

[WebSlave]

I will state for the record here, that although Joe holds this site in apparent contempt, I would not hold that against him if he decides to post here. I will do my best to make sure that he gets to say his piece and I will be very strict about enforcing the rules about flames, personal slurs, or overly heated discusions.

The door is open. The rest is up to him. I don't have the slightest interest in arboreals, so I am completely neutral on the issue. The only personal contact I have had with him was when he threatened to involve me in a lawsuit, and even then, I was perfectly willing to go along with the program.

But I have to admit I am puzzled. Jeff Barringer told me he is involved in a constant battle with Joe to keep him from posting on his site. So there Joe is jumping through all sorts of hoops to post on a site where he is obviously not wanted, but here where he is welcome to post, he does not. Must be the reverse psychology thing, I guess.

Oh well, I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to appear. I've got too much to do here.

 

[ScottsReptiles]

Re: Good......

Good. Please add me to your "Do not do business with" list. Frankly, I do not care how I appear to you. There is only a very select group I deal with anyways. I am a private keeper and do not sell anything. So, to be quite honest, you and your feelings are of little concern to me. I am intentionally trying to come off like a jerk on this one.

Again.. I still really have no idea who you are or why I would want to do business with you. Heck.. before this post of yours... I had no idea you ever were a breeder. You are not coming off like a jerk.. more like a 11 year old boy. Please show some signs of maturity here.

I'm glad you have such a good rapport with Joe. More power to you. But keep this in mind. When he screws you over, and he will, don't even try to come on here or anywhere and whine about it. Because myself and others will be all over you.

Thank you and have a good night.

what are you going to do, wait for me out back after school? Is this how you handle people that disagree with your thinking? Intergrity.. Its all about intergrity.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Hey Scott
I remember what you told me and I also told I would post it on the very board that Joe owns. You told me that all three where pukers from day one. Here it is, his fix as YOU told it to me in you own words.

Posted by suticat on December 02, 2001 at 19:35:23:

Went to a pet store today to get some feeders and noticed they had ETB's. After talking to the guy for a while he told me that they where pukers. However, they had FIXED it by feeding them very small meals. So after a bit longer discussion and probing I found out even more goodies about ERS. It seems as if someone had told them that in Surinam and in certain populated colonies of ETB's, they are lacking an enzyme in their intestinal tract and stomach acids. The lack of this unkown enzyme causes them to not be able to digest rodents. So in the wild they just dont eat them. Furthermore, it was said that almost all pukers can be converted if they are fed a more realistic diet of foul. Plus it was deffiniteley NOT a virus or bacterial agent.

So this leads to tons of unanswered questions.
1) If it is a lack of enzymes, than how do CBB animals thrive on a diet of rodents for years then after contact with known puker start to puke?
2) Is it that the known puker suddenly triggers a genetic switch in the CBB animal to shut off those enzymes?
3) How come F1 and F2 animals puke after being in contact with a known puker? Especially when its a fact that the parents have NEVER puked on a diet of rodents.
4) Is it because it skips a generation?
5) If it is a genetic abnormality in the certain colonies, why and how is it spread to CBB animals with no familial hisory of puking on rodents?
6) How do you spread a genetic abnormality with physical contact?

Well I could go on and on with this line of questioning, but the theory has so many flaws I wouldn't know where to stop. Hopefully the scientific idealist who spouted this dribble as facts will step forward and answer some of these questions. Plus, if this is the cause, why havent you published your findings and show all the newly turned and thriving on chicks expukers.

Anxiously awaiting your reply and wisdom.

More sound advice from the master.


LMAO

And if you look closely at everyones posts, you will see that the only cure for ERS at this point in time is the FREEZER. Why would you be so willing to spread whatever it is to everything in the store. Perhaps I should contact Rock, he would love a chance to talk about this topic too. After all it was his money and livelyhood you two where messing with.

Wanna see what your beloved JoePuker said in responce to it? After all he was the FIRST to answer spewing his wisdom.

Posted by Joe P. on December 02, 2001 at 21:56:18:

In Reply to: ERS, a NEW theory posted by suticat on December 02, 2001 at 19:35:23:

The wishful thinking and half truths abound whenever this topic is brought up. Sounds like your petshop guy was given quite a big dose of both.

It is true enough that many pukers can be indefinently maintained on a steady diet of chicks and may in fact never puke again as long as you continue to feed them in this manner. However, throw a rodent at them, and I can pretty much guarentee the result.

I had a study animal that after a year of fighting I stumbled onto the chick business. This animal went 8 months without regurgitating. I got brave and fed him (a full grow 4.5' adult male) a small mouse about 45 grams or so. 3 days later, after having faithfully held down a chick every 7 to 10 days ( I feed chick feeders more frequently as they relatively unsubstantial) but 72 hours after his first rodent in close to a calandar year and he took no time to revert to his old habit.

That animal is currently in Atlanta with Paul Lord to whom he was given as part of a group of 5 for research by Pual's company vet. Perhaps Paul can tell us how he's, and the rest of that colony is getting on.

I have a friend here in Cincinnati that has taken up the job of maintaining a colony of exceptional Emeralds that I acquired over the last couple of years that have the malady. He uses chicks to maintain the entire group, and there is the occasional regurgitation, however the group is of normal size and weight and we are actually attempting to breed some of the animals this season. I'll certainly let you all know should anything come of it. I was once told by an avid keeper/breeder of Basin Emeralds that puking females will stop regurgitating while mating and gravid (if they keep eating that is) but will revert to regurgitating within a coulpe of meals after delivery.

In any event, don't be taken in by all of that malarchy. In my opinion ERS is a viralent plague and should be reguarded as incurable.

Unless you are a masachist, don't get involved with known regurgitators.

I guess your a masachist according to your beloved pukersalesman.

So my question to you is this, why on earth would you try to pass off a known puker to a customer?

Could it be GREED? Or are you a Polanco in the making?

 

[The Dark Grove]

Eeeewwwwwww....



Ugh, Tim there's no need to call someone a "Poleanco"........


Scott, the problem is this if you are interested.

Anybody who tries to stick up for an individual who has an open invitation from the site moderator to come here stick up for themself, but won't, just isn't received well and for good reason. JoePee has been caught in a number of things, like using different names all coming back to the same ISP or stuff. Since that way doesn't work for him he now uses "mouthpieces", other people and their computers, in an attempt to reply without using his own name. Personally, I'm not sure where you fit in but it sure comes close to one of JoePees attempts to talk through someone else...again.


If you want to make a difference then get JoePee to start posting here and talking. You might mention to Joe that this thread has gone on soooooooo long just because he hasn't posted. Every other such thread has eventually stopped, and each one of those has at least a single ,articulate, reply or more from the person in question. Those who are angry at JoePee would say this is due to the overwhelming amount of lies they can prove he is involved in. JoePee would say this thread is beneath him. He's quite wrong in that thought if that's the case. His name is now famous ,for who knows what reasons exactly , but it's not for anything good on his part. Example:

At the San Diego IRBA show last month I overheard a potential buyer of an ETB ask the seller if it's a "Joe Puker?" What's worse Scott is that the Seller knew enough of that name to reply "I don't sell anything in conditions close to that guy's stuff".


JoePee ignoring this thread and letting it go doesn't help him out one bit, you could help end this thread by just explaining this to him and helping him post.



Ralph Chapman

 

[Danny Mendez]

"Joepukers"

At the San Diego IRBA show last month I overheard a potential buyer of an ETB ask the seller if it's a "Joe Puker?" What's worse Scott is that the Seller knew enough of that name to reply "I don't sell anything in conditions close to that guy's stuff".

I for one know my job is done. I don't come hear to argue who is right or wrong for taking who's side but simply for everyone to know about JoePee and his pukers along with the Ora of BS that surrounds him.

Scott, you are completely entitled to your opinions on JoPee based on your experiences with him. I think the reason everyone jumped down your throat is because they all once stood where you do, where perspective tells you that Joe isn't as bad as all the hype surrounding him. But just like you eventually will find out...others have learned the hard way and are just trying to prevent you from making their mistakes.



I for one know that if JoPee made an appearance on this site (which he visits daily) I would conduct myself in an adult manner and not resort to namecalling or insults. I'd simply want to ask some simple questions. Once again, an open invitation stands JoPee.

 

[Karen Clark]

Guys, I've stayed out of this for a long time now, basically because I've never bought from Joe, nor from any of the others (except 1 animal one time) involved in this thread, so I have no personal experience to draw from, just what amounts to heresay. I do wish Joe would answer these accusations simply because this has gone on for so long, although that is probably never going to happen.

The point of my posting is this. Several of you have written that should he choose to post, you would act in an adult manner, i.e. no flaming, name calling, etc., etc. YET, more than one of you continue to use JoePee in your posts. Can anyone say derogatory????? Why in the world would he even consider posting when invitations to post and carry on a civil discourse contain a derogatory derivative of his name? I certainly wouldn't, would you?

Karen Clark

 

[Neil Gubitz]

OUCH!.... That's gotta hurt!

....Neil

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Hey Scott,
When I finally did confront him based on what you told me he said, this was his relpy.

Posted by Joe P. on January 08, 2002 at 18:32:13:

In Reply to: Gald to here your done back peddeling and spin doctoring.... posted by suticat on January 08, 2002 at 17:43:39:

If you want a good laugh, please read the messages following the link that Tim, posted. Then please feel free to tell me, is it me? Am I just missing the the whole thing? Am I the looney one?

I think I have the ability to read and discern the written word on at least an above average level. Apparently that is more of a talent than some folks can muster. Auguments with the completely insane are'nt battles you can win, so I'll have to withdraw now.

Please, if it's me, let me know so I can eat a bullet! hehehehe

So either you fibbed and he was telling the truth, or you where telling the truth and he fibbed, take your pick. But one of you smells like a puked up rodent.

So one more question for you Scott, where are the pukers that you claimed to have fixed via JoePees help?

 

[ScottsReptiles]

Hey Scott
I remember what you told me and I also told I would post it on the very board that Joe owns. You told me that all three where pukers from day one. Here it is, his fix as YOU told it to me in you own words.

Perhaps I should contact Rock, he would love a chance to talk about this topic too. After all it was his money and livelyhood you two where messing with.

Wanna see what your beloved JoePuker said in responce to it? After all he was the FIRST to answer spewing his wisdom.

[/B]

First off.. I never said it wasn't bacterial.. that was never brought up.. I was not aware that they all were pukers from day one. I was told to try chicks (which we never got ahold of.... I kept wanting to try but they were unattainable). Also, with nothing to hide.. I disclosed the information to all potential buyers that they were wild caught and problem feeders.. but did not know the cause. Two of them were able to hold down and seem to improve eating the smaller prey. One of the males never seemed to catch on to anything we tried. I still believe that stress more than anything killed those ETBs.

If you feel the need to contact Rocky.. be my guest. I worked my a$$ off in that store 10 hours a day for nearly a year while attending school.. I put all of my resources I had available to me in that store and stayed with it as long as I could. I have no hard feelings of what I did while I was manager of that store. At the end of the day everything I did with each herp was documented or told to Rocky. Contacting him should provide no new information. He was kept in the full circle before anything was done reguarding the ETBs or anything else I was rehabilitating and caring for. But this information isn't really appropriate in this thread, is it? Or will you start threatning me other ways as well?

 

[ScottsReptiles]

So one more question for you Scott, where are the pukers that you claimed to have fixed via JoePees help?

I had never claimed to have fixed them and even openly admitted on this forum and to you personally in the store that all three had passed. I also stated that I feel it was also stress related. How many times must I repeat this?

I have claimed and will continue to claim that I tried to help them. If want to attack me for that.. be my guest.

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

Funny thing is I gave you the address to the site on the back of a biz card for you to watch the responces to what you told me was said between you and JoePee when it was made public. I remember how excited you were to see his reactions when faced with it in public and in front of the corallus communtiy.

I had never claimed to have fixed them and even openly admitted on this forum and to you personally in the store that all three had passed.

Through Joe's help.. I was able to get a two of the feeding for a short time...

You simply failed to mention in your posts where you were so upset with me for telling you to you get it over with and freeze them becuase the fact of the matter is there is no cure for ERS that you ultimately killed them. You failed to mention that I was right and that they died anyway after suffering in your care and failed treatments. As painfull as it is on the animals, it was better than watching them suffer threw proven failed treatments. Which is what happened by your hands and own admition with Joepees help and guidance.

So between you and Joepee, you decided to try chicks(even though you couldnt find them). Everyone in ETB knows about the chicks trick to keep them going for a short time. Sadly and ultimatley it fails too and its an underhanded way to rip off unsuspecting customers. Talk about a level of integrity. Geeesh thats low.

This leads me to my next questions.

Why chicks if they were not pukers?
Could it be to keep them hanging on deaths door long enough to sell them?
Why would you sell a known puker to the public?
Why would you house 3 known pukers in the same 2x2x2 cage or 2 feeders and 1 puker or what ever combo you wish to claim now?

I have claimed and will continue to claim that I tried to help them.

I can totally sympathize with you on this one Scott. I have been there and done that with the puker Joe tried to pawn off on me. But the advice I gave you was sound, the least traumatic to the animals, the owners, and all the possible new carriers you could have infected in your store. Think of how they suffered regurge after regurge after regurge until they passed.

If want to attack me for that.. be my guest.

I have not attacked you nor will I. I am simply pointing out the truth for all to see. I would also ask that everyone else think about where Scott is, and sadly we where all there once. One day he will see the light and the truth about JoeP. He is just in denial about his new buddies history.

 

[ScottsReptiles]

You simply failed to mention in your posts where you were so upset with me for telling you to you get it over with and freeze them becuase the fact of the matter is there is no cure for ERS that you ultimately killed them.This leads me to my next questions.

Why chicks if they were not pukers?

I never said they weren't pukers
Could it be to keep them hanging on deaths door long enough to sell them?
Why would you sell a known puker to the public?

I was offering them to experienced keepers and the other public at cost that Rock paid for them to try to give them a better chance. At no time did I not disclose that they were puking. I did not have these in my care for a long enough time to 100% say it was ERS. I have had many snakes puke their first meals that have gone on to live long lives once they left the high stress environment of a herp store.
Why would you house 3 known pukers in the same 2x2x2 cage or 2 feeders and 1 puker or what ever combo you wish to claim now?

I constantly asked Rocky to fix the large quarentine cage in the back room to put them there out of the display tanks, but my requests were never fulfilled. He handled all of the construction work and the cage back there that would have been suitable for them needed it badly. It wasn't my store and I could only do so much. For the last week the best I was able to convince him to do was allow me to put a piece of cardboard infront of the cage to act as a barrier.. Unfortunately this was too little too late and did not help them. I couldn't stand those cages that he had built.. horrible for heating and decorating properly and the ventilation system.. well.. sucked. I was completely against keeping them there from the first moment them came in door.



I can totally sympathize with you on this one Scott. I have been there and done that with the puker Joe tried to pawn off on me. But the advice I gave you was sound, the least traumatic to the animals, the owners, and all the possible new carriers you could have infected in your store. Think of how they suffered regurge after regurge after regurge until they passed.

this has been talked about in great debate for awhile now on various boards I am on.. but.. Freezing is not considered a quick and painless death.. often taking a full 24 hours or more for the animal to die. Granted.. who is to say one way of dieing is better than the other.. but.. I would have just liked to have given them a better chance.. as I would with any.

There are many aspects of human digestion that are still popping up and various life stages. I became lactose intolerant and the age of 18, my brother at the age of 24. Up unitl them I was completely able to digest dairy food.. then.. woke up one day and it make me sick. What is to say that something like this couldn't be true in snake digestion as well. Even though as it seems.. all pukers are destined for death.. it would be interesting if more tried various food items to see if there might be something they could eat. If they are doing to die anyways.. why not experiment with them a little.. but.. thats another subject completely

I have not attacked you nor will I. I am simply pointing out the truth for all to see. I would also ask that everyone else think about where Scott is, and sadly we where all there once. One day he will see the light and the truth about JoeP. He is just in denial about his new buddies history.

sorry then.. I took the calling the old owner seemed like a threat for some reason.. my bad

 

[Arboreals of the Rainforest]

I would have just liked to have given them a better chance.

As would we all.

Sad fact is, some diseases processes/disorders (known causative agents or not) are nonreversable and ultimately lead to death despite our best intentions. Either way you went with those guys, it was a tough choice to make and live with. I know the feeling all to well.

sorry then.. I took the calling the old owner seemed like a threat for some reason.. my bad

Accepted.

 

[The Dark Grove]

Ugh,

Ok Karen point taken. I'll stop referring to Joe(!) as such if he stops e-mailing and posting using other names (which just adds more of a "negative" aura to all this).

Now if somebody could get Joe(!) to post a little then maybe this thread can flare up and then flare out and it'll be done with.



Ya hear me Joe(!) ?


Ralph Chapman

 

[Ghi Reptiles]

Hey Ralph,

The only way this thread will flare out is if everyone quits posting. I have talked to some of the guys here and they all say the same thing...it is just all in good FUN. This has been going on for years and I have heard that the BOI's would be boring if it weren't for the razzing. This is kind of set up like the Jerry Springer show. The guys involved get egged on by others to make it interesting. Do you think that Scott would really make a statement like If you want to attack me for that be my guest. Or this one, Or will you start threatning me other ways as well? No, me neither. In my opinion, he was looking for confrontation in return for the statements. It's all part of the fun right guys. So I think this thread will end when you guys want the fun to end.

 

[ScottsReptiles]

Hey Ralph,

The only way this thread will flare out is if everyone quits posting. I have talked to some of the guys here and they all say the same thing...it is just all in good FUN. This has been going on for years and I have heard that the BOI's would be boring if it weren't for the razzing. This is kind of set up like the Jerry Springer show. The guys involved get egged on by others to make it interesting. Do you think that Scott would really make a statement like If you want to attack me for that be my guest. Or this one, Or will you start threatning me other ways as well? No, me neither. In my opinion, he was looking for confrontation in return for the statements. It's all part of the fun right guys. So I think this thread will end when you guys want the fun to end.

Actually.. that comment was because I misunderstood a personal comment that Tim made that is irrelevant to others unless they were personally involved. I cleared up confusion about the post and apologized for making that assumption. There was no hidden meaning behind it.