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Bad Guy Josh of OUTBACK REPTILES

I have purchased a few extremely nice balls for my hypo projects from Josh at Outback and could not be happier with them. He answered all of my questions prior to and after the purchase, brought extras for me to choose from when he met me, and gave me a killer deal on them. They were all sexed correctly and eat like machines every time offered.

Josh is a straight up guy that’s not going to bs anyone just to make a sale; this is what he does for a living not a hobby and I'm sure he would never purposely do anything that could jeopardize his good name in this industry. I would not hesitate to purchase anything from him and will be purchasing more myself as things I want become available.
 
Cp3_Pythons said:
I see a few problems here one I don't care who you get an animal from there's a few things you do off the jump after you get them... 1 give the animal a thorough look over from head to tail really inspect the animal, 2 SEX the animal to ensure you got what you wanted which it seems you failed to do when you originally got the animal It wasn't until after 2 weeks had went by and after the animal was in a different persons care that the problem came to light. Most people/breeder's/hobbyist's/company's offer a standard 7 day policy and ANYONE will tell you sex an animal when you get it it doesn't matter WHO it come's from period. Personally I can see why Josh doesn't and or hasn't replied to your emails and or call's it was after a certain period of time and even more important the animal was in SOMEONE else's care when the so called problem was noticed.... For all we know the person you sent the animal off with could be or is trying to pull a fast one we don't know I'm by no means saying the third party involved is but there's always that reason of doubt that, that could be the case.
Click to expand...

If I was buying a critter where the gender mattered, I agree with Clarence that prudent behavior suggests that it be sexed soon after receipt.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205313&highlight=sexing+guarantee
 
If the OP sexed the animal or NOT, it was mis-sexed by the seller. It is the SELLERS responsibility to make it right. What happens if the buyer is "new" and doesn't know how to sex an animal, are they SOL ? This isn't like the op got an animal off of CL, he went to a "reputable" breeder.
 
bullies&balls said:
If the OP sexed the animal or NOT, it was mis-sexed by the seller. It is the SELLERS responsibility to make it right. What happens if the buyer is "new" and doesn't know how to sex an animal, are they SOL ? This isn't like the op got an animal off of CL, he went to a "reputable" breeder.
Click to expand...

How do we know the seller mis-sexed the snake:shrug01: as stated the op didn't sex the snake, leaving that little gap that just maybe the so called friend who has been breeding for 25 years isn't being honest...
( This reasonable doubt is placed here by the Op who didn't sex an animal after receiving said animal)
Like I stated before even if the person and or company is reputable WHEN EVER RECEIVING AN ANIMAL ALWAYS CHECK THE SEX OF THE ANIMAL ALWAYS!!!
The OP even if new states he has a friend who has been breeding for 25 years... so getting the sex of the animal checked out shouldn't of been a problem...

Problems with the OP'S Claim which would in honesty put Outback Reptile's in the clear to fix or make right the so called "problem"
1. The Op waited longer than the Normal 7 day policy... to report any problems... ( I believe Outback has a 7 day policy been awhile since I made a purchase with them )
2. The so called problem wasn't even noticed until after 2 weeks of the animal being in the Op's care and wasn't even noticed by the Op it was noticed afterwards by a third party ( who should be named since the Op brought that up.... IMO that falls under the no anonymous third party quote policy which is a NO NO )which means the said animal switched hands between a different party. ( I don't know of anyone who offer's there policy's to extend to a third party... :shrug01:)
3. The Op failed to check the sex of said animal to ensure it was indeed a female ( Yes it happens maybe Outback sent out a mis-sexed animal but we will never know because the Op didn't check the sex of said animal )

Three strike's your out.... there's three reason's that give reasonable doubt to the Op's claims... and three reasons that could be used to prove that Outback did no wrong here and the Op and or the third party is trying to pull a fast one....
 
I just got into the office and had a chance to glance over this thread. Give me a few to read all the post, and I will put up a reply, as well as see what we can do to get the issue resolved.

Thanks to everyone who gave me the heads up on the thread, I do not have fauna logged in on my phone, and was spending fathers day with my son, so this has been my first chance to read the thread, and get the details on it.
 
bullies&balls said:
If the OP sexed the animal or NOT, it was mis-sexed by the seller. It is the SELLERS responsibility to make it right. What happens if the buyer is "new" and doesn't know how to sex an animal, are they SOL ? This isn't like the op got an animal off of CL, he went to a "reputable" breeder.
Click to expand...
Bob, everyone- buyers and sellers, even reputable sellers, can make a sexing error. It is prudent for a buyer to sex a critter asap so that the situation can be fixed as soon as possible.

I included a link in my previous post where people are discussing the length of time elapsed before an error is discovered. I think everyone would agree that the sooner an error is caught, the better for everyone.

If the snake that was sent to the OP is the same snake pictured with hemipenes, of course it is the seller's responsibility and I think this particular seller who has a good rep in general, will make it right.
 
I was looking to peek at the Outback TOS, I do not see an internet site, anyone have a link?
 
bullies&balls said:
If the OP sexed the animal or NOT, it was mis-sexed by the seller. It is the SELLERS responsibility to make it right. What happens if the buyer is "new" and doesn't know how to sex an animal, are they SOL ? This isn't like the op got an animal off of CL, he went to a "reputable" breeder.
Click to expand...

I completely agree.
Cp3_Pythons said:
How do we know the seller mis-sexed the snake as stated the op didn't sex the snake, leaving that little gap that just maybe the so called friend who has been breeding for 25 years isn't being honest...
( This reasonable doubt is placed here by the Op who didn't sex an animal after receiving said animal)
Like I stated before even if the person and or company is reputable WHEN EVER RECEIVING AN ANIMAL ALWAYS CHECK THE SEX OF THE ANIMAL ALWAYS!!!
The OP even if new states he has a friend who has been breeding for 25 years... so getting the sex of the animal checked out shouldn't of been a problem...
Click to expand...

I think you're reaching. We're not dealing with a subjective matter like dissatisfaction due to color misrepresentation, nor is this a health issue where the passage of time could could be rightly cited to absolve the seller of any responsibility. Assuming the snake really was mis-sexed, that's 100% the seller's fault, whether it's 2 days or 2 months before it's noticed, doesn't change that fact. A female isn't going to spontaneously generate hemipenes. Could he hide behind TOS and say "You should have sexed it sooner"? I guess so. Is that how a reputable dealer handles what comes about from their own mistake? I don't believe so.
 
Does the OP intend to send the snake back if a refund is agreed upon? And what about the lack of quarantine into at least the "friend's" collection? Personally, I would also want the snake "professionally sexed" (vet or experienced 3rd party herper) before agreeing with anything. And I also agree that the "friend" needs to be named here.
 
My friend and i have OCD when it comes to being clean, we have never had any problems with any mites or ticks or anything else. I would send the snake But i am not covering shipping.
 
Paul, do you or your friend have a probe set and a video camera (or a phone/digital camera with a video setting)? Proof positive of a sexing error would be making a short video on probing the snake and then uploading it to YouTube. I have a YouTube account if you're not willing to create one and I would be glad to temporarily host the video to help you out.

On a side note, Josh sent me a very polite and apologetic email about the mistake he made with me. As far as I'm concerned the communication issue I had with him is water under the bridge and fully resolved, and I would be glad to do business with him again. I understand you're upset Paul, but I do believe that Josh will do what's right by you if this is indeed a sexing mistake.
 
Heck no, you sholdn't cover it. I sent a snake out that I showed a pic of to the buyer. She "thought" it was the one from eariler pic. Weights were very similar, so out it went. Buyer informs me that it is NOT the one talked about earlier, I offer to send the other for cost of shipping, NOPE, can't do that. Not the one "i" wanted. I as the seller, sent out the worng animal, so I then shipped out the correct and let her keep the "mistake" Regardless of who sexed or didn't sex what, the time between replys SUCKS !!!!! Now try and DISECT this apart with who do its.
 
That picture is golden as proof, I am sure they will remember the snake from the scar on the nose just a lot fatter. If it comes to that i guess i will have to do the video thing but that also sucks do too gas and time and tolls to drive out to my friends.
 
endrin said:
... that pic is of 2 males the darker one with the penis out is the snake in question. In my email i said i got a cell text that had a pic of it being a male sent to me. Yes i tried for 2 weeks or so to breed it and nothing before bringing it to my friend who discovered the problem.
Click to expand...

endrin said:
That picture is golden as proof, I am sure they will remember the snake from the scar on the nose just a lot fatter. If it comes to that i guess i will have to do the video thing but that also sucks do too gas and time and tolls to drive out to my friends.
Click to expand...

There is only one nose in that picture, and it doesn't have a hemipenis coming out of it. Am I missing a picture that shows the dark snake's nose?
 
endrin said:
My friend and i have OCD when it comes to being clean, we have never had any problems with any mites or ticks or anything else.
Click to expand...

There are more than mites that people fear and why they are careful about qt. It does not matter how clean you are for one snake to transmit disease to another. I'm not referring to any of the parties in particular, I am just making a point that you tried to breed the snake, and your 'experienced' friend tried to breed the snake, and so now it has been in two collections and if/when it goes back to the seller he will have to qt.
I think if the seller missexed he will make it right, but I think Vanessa's video is a great idea to make sure.
 
Lucille said:
....and so now it has been in two collections and if/when it goes back to the seller he will have to qt.
I think if the seller missexed he will make it right, but I think Vanessa's video is a great idea to make sure.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't the seller put it in QT upon receipt, anyway? Even if it had only been in the original buyer's hands the whole time, it'd still present the same potential risk.

I must be missing what some of you are seeing. Is there some valid reason why the buyer can't be taken at his word? I'm guessing that there's some suspicion of buyer's remorse?

Based on what I've seen in the time I've spent reading BOI threads, there seems to be an excessive amount of suggested hoops for the buyer to jump through. Is this being based on the fact that he wants a refund, as opposed to an exchange for an actual female? Personally, I think I'd also be turned off to the point that I wouldn't want to have further dealings with someone whose communcation has left so much to be desired. It's not as if the buyer is coming out of left field on this one. There have been others that have come forth with the same complaint.

I'm just really trying to understand the rationale. Unless there's something I'm missing that implies his hemipene picture is deliberately misleading, why give him such a hassle? I can't remember seeing much precedent for requiring such stringent proof of improper sexing. It's not as if sexing snakes is an exact science, where X subcaudal scales deep automaticallyindicates a female.
 
I dont get it myself, its so simple... Josh contacted me by email saying this matter has been told to Ian for the second time, i have yet to hear from him in any way shape or form. From what i understand its out of Josh hands and all on Ian. I guess 10 years of this hobby with no problems is a LONG run from what i have been reading.... Btw Apex, Lancaster is one of my favorite places. Field Of Screams!!
 
Josh, Ryan and Ian are all stand up guys. Be patient and they will take care of it. I know $150 maybe a a lot of money to some people but Outback Reptiles has a lot more at stake than a $150 sale. They will make it right I assure you. They have 1000's of animals to care for and shows every weekend. They are very busy. Most of us have a snake room or 2. Some a small building. Outback has a warehouse facility.

Joe Deavers
J & S Reptiles
 
ApexPredatorBoids said:
I'm just really trying to understand the rationale. Unless there's something I'm missing that implies his hemipene picture is deliberately misleading, why give him such a hassle? I can't remember seeing much precedent for requiring such stringent proof of improper sexing. It's not as if sexing snakes is an exact science, where X subcaudal scales deep automaticallyindicates a female.
Click to expand...

The photo shows the head of one animal and the tail of another...I don't think it's enough for the seller to verify that the animal is indeed the one that he sold. If I sold an animal and was told I had misssexed it, I would want to see a photo or video that allowed me to verify that it was my animal and verify the sex before I had it returned. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
 
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