Jungle Habitats: Alan Hall, the rest of the story

[geckosurfer]

Wow.

It was with curiousity that I began to read all of this. It is with great sadness that I type this. Mr. Hall appears to be doing what he can to boost his business, unfortunately it appears to often fall into the category of the dinner-time telemarketer call. As to his e-mail--one thing I've learned is once you hit the send, you have NO control over the viewing of the information--just ask my old boss and his mistress.

I saw the moderator's discussion and that is more like a "chat" session. It's the proverbial "do you know what my <insert individual> did yesterday. I couldn't believe it". It can be taken in one or another way. If I had read that post about myself, I would have been mortified and would have either (1) talked to Rich to clarify or (2) done a self eval. Dr. Owens appears to have a greater issue with Mr. Hall, and that is his right, provided it is not spiteful or vindictive. Once it becomes that, he needs to evaluate his objectivity with that individual and acknowledge that someone else will need to moderate them.

Some of the statements were immature and uncalled for. But as I've aged I've learned that we are all prone to immature statements, and that they usually happen when we are the most riled about something.

Rich, I sincerely hope you rethink your invitation for Mr. Hall. Unless of course, this is part of the TOS, then you are within your rights. Let's not fall into the KS category of don't like you, don't want you, buh-bye.

When so much emoting is being done, the initial problem get's expanded to include all the other real or imagined issues.

I hope this all can be worked out or resolved without damage to either's business or support.

--Julie (no, I'm not really named geckosurfer)

 

[David Bellis]

It just disgusts me how low some people can go. Rich, this site is a wonderful thing and tons of people appreciate having it around. As has already been said, the herp community would be a lot worse off if this site did not exist. I applaud you and the other mods for taking the time to keep this site up and running.

As far as Jay Owens "beef" with Alan, I've witnessed first hand Alan's tactics. I'm a regular at the BCF and watched Alan create threads to advertise his cages quite a bit in multiple forums. I actually confronted Alan about it at one point. Everyone shares photos of their animals and their cages on pictures forums. Alan posted pictures of empty cages. At least throw an animal in it so it LOOKS like you're sharing a photo and not advertising. Alan got upset when I confronted him and he deleted his post. I don't think it's a vendetta against Alan as much as it's now obvious what Alan's intentions are when posting. I'm sure the mods don't look at every single post that goes on in every forum. After making yourself known as a blatant advertiser of course mods are going to check your posts more often.

 

[MR_Jungle_Mist]

Rich, I sincerely hope you rethink your invitation for Mr. Hall. Unless of course, this is part of the TOS, then you are within your rights. Let's not fall into the KS category of don't like you, don't want you, buh-bye.

Although I can see your point, you seem to be taking this a little lightly. It is not just a matter of "I don't like you..buh-bye". It's a matter of "you are doing things to me that could be financially detrimental to myself personally, to my business, and to my likelihood.) Not only that, but it is being done in such a way as to try and benefit from it.

I can understand being angry for one reason or another. I have to admit I'd be a little angered at seeing my name in those posts. But if, as stated, my behaviour had been discussed with myself and the site owner and I had been warned about it officially I would like to think I'd do a self-evaluation right then and there. If I was ok with my actions, I'd MOVE ON!

 

[Wilomn]

You know Alan, I had figured you were a tad gungho with the cage stuff but a good business man talks his product so I didn't really let it concern me.

And from our conversations and participations in some of the same threads, our disgust with some of the scumbags here on this site, I figured you would be one of the last to turn on someone like it seems you have.

Is there ANY explanation other than the appearance being the fact? You really said and did what the email said?

Please explain the kim felts thing as well. I have stopped by her mothers several times and she is either not home, no one ever knows when she'll be back, or the people that are home don't answer the door for me.

It's possible that they just figured out who I was and why I was stopping by from reading Greg's post about her, but then again, maybe there are other reasons they made connections. This really sucks Alan, please explain this as well.

I am NOT accusing you, as yet. But damn man, if you'd do what you said you did then little is beyond you.

Unlike some of your fellow floridians, I wish you no ill will. You are smart enough to know just how badly you've hurt some who thought they were your friends and that Karma thing is a bitch in high heels 3 sizes too small.

Just let us know it was temporary insanity, or an evil twin, or your meds talking, or the tumor where your brain used to be. That would be easier than believing that email.

 

[geckosurfer]

Steven

I was unable to edit my reply after I posted so I couldn't clarify a few other points. I didn't take Mr. Hall's behavior lightly. I was personally appalled and disgusted. Rich has every right to do what he thinks is best, whatever he feels is in the best interest of the forum. At the same time, I'm conflicted between freedom of speech, etc.

Again, I did not mean to go lightly. I know Rich will do what he feels is best and any justification will not be required by me. I respect his forum, his decisions, etc.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Julie

 

[sputnik]

Waiting

I think I'll wait until the FULL story unfolds before forming an opinion on this.

I know there is a lot more to surface!

 

[Stardust]

I think I too will reserve judgement on this matter until everything is out.
I do have a few opinions on this however.
First off, what Rich wrote was intended to be private as what Alan wrote was intended to be private, hmmm, some similairities there?
I too would have been hurt to read that about myself, though I would not have went to the lengths that Alan went to in an emotional rage.
As far as Alan being able to hurt Rich and his suit, well, I think that was just blowing smoke. Unless Rich wrote something EXTREMELY vivid on how he intended to destroy Jeff I doubt anything he would say to anyone besides his lawyer could hurt him.
I have had the oppurtunity to talk to Dr. Owens and he seems like a nice enough man to me. However, I can see where giving points to one but not to all that violated would be one sided. Perhaps his moderation at BCF and his attitude towards Alan there is interfering with moderating here. No offense, just an observation.
Perhaps some fences should be mended here. I do believe Alan did really like this site and want it to work, perhaps both sides should look at the things done and said.

 

[ms_terese]

Scott,

If there's more, and you know about it, please come forth. I think it would ease a lot of people's minds.

All I've gotten so far is that Alan DID send that email, DID speak to Barringer and offer to sell Rich down the river, and explained that he did it because he was ticked off about being the subject of discussion in a thread.

 

[sputnik]

Ms Terese

Read the email Alan sent on page 1.

Here's a quote from it.

I spoke with Jeff and asked how his lawsuit was panning out right now, he said that currently they are about to come up with a settlement in the lawsuit for about 1/2 of what he sued for .I asked him if he would be interested in having something that could possibly win him the full $175k in the lawsuit if i could provide him something that could verywell seal the lawsuit with the info that was found on ahidden forum on the faunasite.

I think it obviously relates to the Kingsnakes.com issue. Clearly, from I can see there is yet to be released info about this. It has to be significant if it can infact, as stated in the emailed quote I posted, win it for Jeff B.

This is why I say I am waiting for the full story and I think there is yet more to come!

 

[dwedeking]

Disappointed

Frankly this is not a side of Alan that I expected to see. After his posts concerning business dealings and how to treat customers it seemed that he had the makings of a good business.

This type of action will be harmful to his business in such a tight knit group as the online reptile world.

If Alan read something that he felt Rich did that was underhanded and felt in his concentious (sp?) that Jeff needed to know about it, that is one thing. According to Alan's own words (both the email and his post here) his motivation was not to "right a wrong" but rather to get revenge for a slight (and in reading that thread in Hell, I'd have a hard time staying upset at something like that as it seemed minor to me). The question that I see presented "When will he strike out at another again?". Makes you wary to deal with him.

 

[Copperheadman]

Just goes to show that you never really know what a person and their emotions are capable of. So sorry that he did this to you Rich.

 

[SpindleHead]

That "I was mad" excuse doesn't wash,
He ONLY thought about what he could get out of it because he was MAD? Yeah right. Peddle that BS somewhere else.

Chris Marston

 

[Randy T.]

I wanted to add something real quick.

The email was sent to 2 people, myself and one other person. When Alan mentioned possibly giving it to Jeff B the three of us who were talking about it (among many other subjects over an approximate 2 hour time frame) jokingly said "you should see what you can get out of it". The conversation to the best of my knowledge with Jeff B did not contain anything at all regarding himself getting anything if the lawsuit would be won with the information. The "monetary gain" portion of that email can be taken in several ways, obviously the initial reaction to that portion has been that Alan did what he did for self gain and selfish reasons, it can also be taken as a joke to the 2 people who had talked about it the day before, (as anyone with any idea of the way Jeff B operates would presume that getting anything without paying for it is very unlikely). It is up to each person to make their own personal opinions on what has transpired but it is also a good idea to see all sides before making a snap opinion regarding someone.. (as I myself have been guilty of many times in the past).

Later

 

[Lucille]

Randall I am trying to see all sides but am having difficulty understanding your post. So far here is what I understand: Roger Jolly initiated this thread by posting an email sent to him by some unnamed source. The first paragraph has an accounting of a telephone conversation between Alan and Jeff in which Alan talks about how if the damages of the lawsuit are realized in full, most likely it would lead to financial ruin and Fauna having to shut down. Then the email proceeds to the section about how, in return for various consideration, Alan would provide information to help this total ruin of Fauna take place.
On page 7 of this thread Alan CORROBORATES this email and further states he sent it because he was pissed. No joke is mentioned and before your post no levity is mentioned anywhere.
What does your post mean?

 

[Randy T.]

Sorry for the confusion my post may have caused. (I was tired and couldn't "articulate" fully what I was trying to say)

I reread the email (when I initially received it I read it and deleted it so hadn't absorbed it completely) I see what you mean in the main body the mentioning of monetary gain, more so then what I remembered, I apologize for not rereading it before posting. So basically my post is not accurate, as it was based on my initial interpretation of it.. I apologize.

Later

 

[Seamus Haley]

This email was mistakenly forwarded to ME, because of an AOL email "feature" which autocompletes screennames based on letters which have been typed. As far as I know, I was the first to recieve it of those who it was not addressed to.

In case anyone was wondering, I did not send it to Roger Jolly, believing it was essentially a private matter between Rich, Alan and Jeff until one of them decided to make it public. However I can verify that there is nothing more or less going on than has been represented. This isn't a tip of the iceburg kind of situation, everything has been made public, the only real mysteries involved are pretty meaningless... Like who else got the email. Not really much of an issue though, as the only ones who matter, their actions, their motivations, the results- are Rich, Alan and Barringer.

 

[DaveyFig]

Guy number 2

This isn't a tip of the iceburg kind of situation, everything has been made public, the only real mysteries involved are pretty meaningless... Like who else got the email.

I know it is meaningless, but for anyone who is just dieing to know who the other recipient of the email was, now you know. It was me. I had talked to Seamus about the whole thing before, about what I thought about it and all of that.
Sending the email was an accident, but Seamus knew where I stood on the issue.
If I had recieved the email after a lengthy discussion about this topic, I too would have thought that it was sent intentionally, and was meant to be distributed as I saw fit.
I feel as though I have betrayed Alan, even though it was an accident. Backstabbing someone, even if to everyone else on the outside looking in he is a backstabber, is still backstabbing.

 

[DaveyFig]

to clear things up

The discussion I had with Seamus was not about anyones attempt at destroying fauna, but about breaches of security in online forums in general. It was about people seeing what they are not meant to see and pots being stirred because of it.

 

[W.Wedeking]

backstabbing

Dave, what you did was an accident. There was no malice, no ill intent and no forethought. That simply does not qualify as backstabbing.

As for Alan, who admitted his malicious intent and his paranoid, hateful reasons, the shoe fits.

As far as the feud between Rich and Jeff, that is for the two of them to work out.

Both Fauna and KS are useful tools and valuable resources for the herp community and losing either one would be a travesty to the herp world.

 

[HerpVenue]

The email was sent to 2 people, myself and one other person. When Alan mentioned possibly giving it to Jeff B the three of us who were talking about it (among many other subjects over an approximate 2 hour time frame) jokingly said "you should see what you can get out of it".

okay you were joking.

so right now im waiting for him to get back with me and then im going to dicuss what is in it for me lol cause i know right now that he is planning on settling for less then the $175k and i think if i could get him that full amount it might be worth something right ? i mean even if it gets him $5-$10-$50k morethen they plan to settle on .... i think thats would be worth something lol if nothing else even a the fact that he could win the 175k would be fact enough to me IMO to give someone something esp since a settlement like that could more then likely cause rich to have to shut down fauna if he looses this lawsuit and esp if its for the full 175K or more . anyways attached is the copypaste in MS word of the info that was most juicy on the kingsnakes.com info and then there is some info on when KS started banning rich's sites . let me know what ya think guys .
i think if he wants some info i might request that i get a full upgrade on my account to top status and possibly a lil "reward" for this info lol

You may have been joking.....
but Alan sure wasn't.
He sure was talking in depth about the "gains" he could receive.
For someone who is just joking he sure has thought about the different aspects of the different "gains" he could get.
He was joking that is why about half of that e-mail is talking about rewards he could get.

So paint it a pretty pink all you want in hopes of saving his.....whatever you want to save.