Jungle Habitats: Alan Hall, the rest of the story

[SpindleHead]

And Alan, just because you admitted it after it was posted doesn't make you honorable or straightforward. A lie of omission is still a lie. You didn't come here and post that message and I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have admitted it if it wasn't here for everyone to see.

 

[SpindleHead]

I'll chime in anytime and yes you were looking for what was in it for you. Your E-Mail states that pretty clear a few times. Or is it not your e-mail?

Mad or not you have no honor and no scruples, trying to use Rich's words against him for YOUR motives is underhanded. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[JungleHabitats]

#1

And Alan, just because you admitted it after it was posted doesn't make you honorable or straightforward. A lie of omission is still a lie. You didn't come here and post that message and I'm willing to bet you wouldn't have admitted it if it wasn't here for everyone to see

#2

I'll chime in anytime and yes you were looking for what was in it for you. Your E-Mail states that pretty clear a few times. Or is it not your e-mail?

Mad or not you have no honor and no scruples, trying to use Rich's words against him for YOUR motives is underhanded. Nothing more nothing less..

To answer these
Well in that respect i will say you are about 35% right i wouldnt have posted it at the time because at the time it wasnt anything more then a phone call and went no further then that .And i could have very easily denied the fact that i sent the email and could have very well said it was one of the third parties that added that into a email but i didnt take the back door out . Ill stand by what i have said what was written in the email was written by me no one else , it was things that me and two others had jokingly spoke of while we were talking . Now i am sure you have said jokingly " id like to Kill (insert name here )" or any other number ofthings you can say when talking with someone but without knowing in writing you cant judge the tone to make heads or tails of it .So whats in print is always perceived as more then there is to it .Get a group of friends together and then tell them you would like to kill joe blow and then putthat in writing and let the police get it or anyone else that wasnt there at the time it was being dicussed and the immediate response will be you are guilty ... same cause and effect here . I dont and didnt intend to gain anything from this nor do i give a rats ass what comes of it as i know and some others know what the tone of the email was .

Im not using anyones words against them just as you all have seen if it isnt written somewhere it cant be discovered .. and with that i mean if what i saw had not been written down now would we be where we are right now ?so express your concerns to the author aswell of what was seen/found in that forumas it was there so it was meant to be read right ???
again have a good night im getting off the bandwagon now to relax have fun

 

[Casey Hulse]

it was things that me and two others had jokingly spoke of while we were talking

Did you contact Jeff Barringer regarding the "hidden forum"?
Did you tell him it was just a joke, all in fun?

I dont and didnt intend to gain anything from this nor do i give a rats ass what comes of it as i know and some others know what the tone of the email was .

So your reasons for giving the info. to Jeff B. were simply to make Rich Z. fork out another $100,000 or so and cause this website to go under? How noble of you Alan, of course you were just joking about the financial gains you might recieve.
The only person you are fooling is yourself.

 

[craig kade]

WOW!! I really can not beleive what I am reading WOW. There have been alot of dirtbags brought to justice here, but WOW. Did this scumbag show his face in Daytona?? I can't even beleive I had not heard about this until today. I would say I won't buy anything from him, but I would not have before anyway. WOW.
I hope someone throws a party in his honor. Craig Kade

 

[Lucille]

Damage control.

As I said to another who posted, the email did not sound like a joke, Alan. And you said in writing on this thread that you did what you did because you were pissed.

I remember you talking to me of your dissatisfaction when you first felt you were having a problem on Fauna. Remember what I suggested? I told you to come forth honestly and talk out your difference with the mods. I suggested as a measure of reconciliation that you contact Dr. Owens and donate one of your cages to him as a peace offering.

I wish you had done that, it is sad to see when people make the wrong choices.

The fact that you have returned here to speak on this forum means you care enough to defend your name, which has suffered considerable damage as a result of your own actions as evidenced by the email which you corroborated.

At this point, in my humble opinion, damage control through words is not sufficient to restore anyone's good faith in you. I would think in order to return to the reptile community with a clean slate some much more fundamental change is required.

It would be good if you could begin with an apology. Not, "I'm sorry but....." Rather, a total apology where you truly show the world that you are contrite for the damage you tried to inflict on another man.
Then, a gift as evidence of good faith.
You have a business and you told me that as a result of advertising on ks you did rather well last year. I suggest a large donation to the Fauna legal fund, large enough to make a substantial impact on the settlement, perhaps half.

Not that any of this would necessarily mean you would be forgiven by anyone, but in my experience total contrition followed by a substantial good faith effort to right the wrongs that have been done is a good start. Coming onto this forum and just saying 'ha,ha it was a joke' (you said it wasn;t, in writing, earlier in the thread) or just about anything else, will not mend fences.

As I surf around the internet and look at sites which have reptile information I see familiar names and realize that the online reptile community is very interconnected. I think that had you taken my advice the first time, you would still have a solid place in the reptile community; think of how your life will be in six months, a year, five years- the reptile community is small and has become a part of what you are; I suggest you give my words here some thought.

I see examples on the BOI of people who have made wrong choices and then tried to defend indefensible actions; and over a period of time turn into bitter 'bad guys' that only merit a parking space in Hell. Don't let it happen to you. Stop, turn back, acknowledge that you have done something that hurt someone else and do it without trying to defend yourself; and then complete the turnaround by a gift to Fauna as I outlined above.

 

[Stardust]

Lucille,

I believe that Alan did acknowledge what he did. I also believe that he has made donations to fauna which were sent back to him even before this letter came about.
I do not think resolving differences between two people is to send them something free like a cage.
Personally, from what I have heard and read from both sides, I believe that Alan as well as others owe appologies. Just because you are a mod or owner doesn't mean you are not beyond reproach or not human to your own mistakes.
Either they go on the way they are, and the thread stops and Alan goes off to his thing. Or they are all big enough to talk to one another, hash it out, and get over it.
I am trying hard to look at both sides here, and not be one sided or jump on any wagon. If I am to be truthful, I see wrong on both sides.

 

[KelliH]

Well Alan, looks like you were playing both sides of the fence and got busted. Two faced, lying, back stabbers have no place in our communtity so BYE BYE! What a dissapointment.

 

[dwedeking]

No Kelli, don't beat around the bush. Let us know how you really feel

 

[Seamus Haley]

If I am to be truthful, I see wrong on both sides.

What wrong has been perpetrated by ANY of this sites moderators or Rich in this mess exactly?

Rich was saving copies of chat logs so that he could check them out at his convenience... Oh no! Anything but that, the man dropped money on a feature that was intended to make his FREE website better and he wants to see how it's being used and if it was worth the purchase. Horror of horrors!

Alan discovers this and throws a temper tantrum, spamming the boards, deleting or editing random messages as he's able because he's upset, juvenile and frankly not all that bright. The rules are enforced and appropriate steps are taken to stop these behaviors.

The modertors have a moderator only forum where they can discuss what should be done about site related issues... So what? Virtually every message board has such a hidden forum, it's either that or they send dozens of emails back and forth. The content of that forum was never intended for public viewing and frankly being called immature and a "dink" are very mild compared to what Alan's behavior at the time warranted...

Then he decides... it was a stupid, stupid idea, because there was no way it would ever have worked... but he decides to try and take Fauna down. Not because he has a real moral issue with the site or the way it's run, because he had his chat moderator status taken away from him and he's prone to acts of idiocy when he gets upset. Well boo-goddamn-hoo, everything Alan has "gotten" was a direct result of his own actions and nothing more. He set himself up for problems and then fell apart like a CHILD when there were consequences for his actions. He's contemptible on multiple levels, offers nothing of real value to the website and is generally more trouble than he's worth. Hell, Rich even asked him politely not to utilize the forums anymore, I didn't see a public recall for this request and Alan can't even obey THAT. He's a child. I don't care how old he is, mentally and emotionally the guy is about eight- he causes problems and then tries to shove responsibility everywhere but where it belongs... On himself.

I can hardly be called biased on this topic either, Owens there kicked me off the Bob Clark forums with a catapult, so if I was going by who I liked or got along with better, my feelings would be in the opposite direction... But the facts of this situation, layed out for public viewing as they have been, are too one seided, to blatantly the result of ONE person's mistakes for me to take any position other than the one I have. The man's backstabbing whiney juvenile scum, we're better off without him.

And since I'm responding again, Neil you're a filthy hypocrite. You are in no position to be condemning Alan for his misdeeds when you were essentially advocating the same, except you were doing it for fun, rather than profit. If you really think he doesn't belong on this site due to his actions, I invite you to set an example and never post here again yourself.

 

[Brownie55]

Seamus, when I grow up I want to be as articulate as you!

 

[ms_terese]

I am trying hard to look at both sides here, and not be one sided or jump on any wagon. If I am to be truthful, I see wrong on both sides.

I'm not following you on this one, Ro. Maybe you're seeing something I'm not.

Just because Rich owns this site, he's not required to adore everyone on it. He had some issues about Alan's posts/behavior and ADDRESSED ALAN DIRECTLY. Alan then began deleting posts, consequently hacking up threads. Rich had to put a stop to it, as it was nothing but malicious behavior.

Alan & Dr. Owens may have an issue, but Rich was quick in telling Dr. Owens he could not overlook inappropriate posts just because he was a moderator.

The actions Alan took were specifically against Rich and this site, and I can see nothing in the context of what's been posted that would indicate to me that Rich has anything for which he should apologize.

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Seamus.... Obviously, you're referring to my "email" that went public.... that is totally different than what Alan did.... I was talking about some of the PEOPLE on this site.... NOT the site itself.... and, also obviously, I was RIGHT about some of the PEOPLE on this site.... The SITE ITSELF had NOTHING to do with my email.... seeing as you THINK of yourself as smarter than everyone else, try reading it again, because YOU are one of the PEOPLE I was talking about!....

I have never had anything but respect for this site.... I've accepted every banning and every fine I have been given with not one word of whining about it.... I just don't let the "dirty dozen" bother me anymore.... if I have something to say, I say it, I don't get involved in the fights anymore, except for the one or two posts I write to state my feelings.... that's it....

I have continued to do my business as I always had, and NOBODY has had one bad word to say about me in quite some time.... as a matter of fact, it's been quite the contrary.... so stick to your OWN business and stay OUT of mine.... I have NO NEED for you in the least....

Neil

 

[BocaReptiles]

Love to see you get out of this one... Alan!

Hey Alan or is it Ali... what a fine mess you got yourself into this time. I know it was just a matter of time you would mess up, and quite frankly is a good one. So how does it feel to be on the top of fauna? and how your jungle crapbitats going? Like you told me once before Ali... KARMA right! I love that name...LOL

Well gotta go guys and gals, keep up the good work.

I'm loving every minute of this...


Sal Tornambene
Boca Reptiles

 

[Gromph Baenre]

Mr. Haley,
In regards to your previous posting in this thread,

quote

quote:If I am to be truthful, I see wrong on both sides.



What wrong has been perpetrated by ANY of this sites moderators or Rich in this mess exactly?

end quote

I would like to request you review the second page of the thread located in Hades. I have included a link to the thread for your convienence.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47088&perpage=5&pagenumber=2

Please pay close attention to the Webslaves own reservations about how appropriate some of the postings of one of the moderators is, and the perception it could leave with other members of this site. I am not attempting to speak for Ms. Bruyn, or imply this was her flow of logic that prompted her to make the response she did. However, I can see how someone could arrive at such a conclusion with the given postings in the aforementioned thread.

On the flipside of the coin, do the postings in the moderators forum justify the response and actions of Mr. Hall? In my estimation, those postings do not warrant the response Mr. Hall envisioned, no matter how broad one's scope of reality is. To Mr. Hall's credit, he has came here, posted the reasons for his behaviour, and given those who requested a glimpse of his line of reasoning and the events that lead up to his email. Quite frankly, I would hope that Mr. Hall and the Webslave can mend fences between themselves in private, but the mob (and I use this term as metaphor, referencing to the Roman Empire, not as a disrespect towards anyone) will not be placated until it has it's pound of flesh.


Best regards,

Carson Grindstaff

 

[bcfos]

So Alan got mad and went on a rage. At least he admits to that fact. I am not here it defend him nor give him a smack, because lets face it folks we have all done stupid stuff when we were mad at one point or another in our lives.

The only thing I hate is he talked to the head dictator at kingscam about all this.

 

[Lucille]

I don't know anything about Kingscam. But, I am surprised at your post Brian. Would you not be sad if Fauna was gone?
I would.

Of course you are correct about all of us doing 'stupid stuff' when we are mad. But all of us who are adults are morally and legally responsible for it later when we are not mad. Think of how a society would be if we shrugged off responsibility for actions performed during a rage. Homicide. Assault. Mayhem.

Have I done stupid stuff when I was angry? You bet. Have I deliberately tried to shut down a place where many congregated to enjoy their hobby, a place that was constructed by hard work and long hours, a place that is free, a place that is managed with an eye towards the safety and hospitality for its visitors?
Nope.

 

[Wilomn]

Have I done stupid stuff when I was angry? You bet. Have I deliberately tried to shut down a place where many congregated to enjoy their hobby, a place that was constructed by hard work and long hours, a place that is free, a place that is managed with an eye towards the safety and hospitality for its visitors?
Nope.

So far as I can tell, neither has anyone else.

How come all of you who give second chances to the scumbags who are so prolific in this industry are not out there saying "Give him another chance? Maybe he changed, maybe he didn't realize what he was doing, maybe maybe maybe......"

As far as I am aware Alan was a good guy up until this bit of stupidity. Unlike many who come here, to this very thread even to kick a man when he's down, and way to go salito you're one tough SOB aren't you, Alan has made one major mistake. The bottom line is though, that no matter how hard he tried, nothing happened.

No, I'm not pleased with Alan nor do I condone what he's done. However, I don't think crucifiction is in order for a failed attempt at stupidity. Had he succeeded then yes, but he didn't. Nor has he lied about it or tried to make it better with prevarication.

As much as I don't like what he did, and I don't like it a lot, I think you all with the rail and tar are overdoing it just a tad.

Censure him, let him know what you think, but is this really a truly bad guy? As bad as some who are regulars here? Personally I don't think he is. He does need to think before he speaks and not react out of anger. He MAY have a clue on that one now.

 

[Casey Hulse]

The bottom line is though, that no matter how hard he tried, nothing happened.

Had he succeeded then yes, but he didn't.

Are you certain there will be no consequences? Do you know something regarding the lawsuit? If you do please share it.
I truly hope Allen was just "pissin in the wind", but I would not take it for granted that what he did was inconsequential

 

[Neil Gubitz]

Oh, I see.... So what you're implying is that....

Attempted murder should be forgiven because nobody actually died??....

Hiring a hitman (who turns out to be an undercover cop) to kill someone, should be forgiven because nobody actually died??....

Holding up a bank, but fleeing without the money, should be forgiven because no money was actually taken??....

Yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater should be forgiven because there was actually no fire??....

You might want to rethink that statement....

Stupidity or anger is no excuse in this situation.... If Jeff actually believed Alan and took him up on his offer, do you REALLY think Alan would have said it was just a joke??.... Yeah, right!....

Neil