Info Just got this from SYR

[Clay Davenport]

Alright, it's time to shine a great big spotlight on the elephant in the room.

If SYR bent the rules a bit in the area of shipping snakes, they weren't the only ones that benefited. Everyone that used them benefited from the reduced rates of the shipments as well as the ease of the process. Had SYR not offered their service, they would have shipped their snakes just the same under their own account, or no account at all.
What were alot of you snake shippers doing before SYR came along?

Anyone who has been shipping or receiving snakes in any numbers for any length of time knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that the majority of snake shippers do not completely label their shipments with the common and scientific names of what they are shipping.

It seems there is a bandwagon mentality forming to crucify SYR for skirting the rules when it's been a common practice all along by breeders big and small.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's how it is.

I personally do not recall getting in a single shipment of snakes that were labeled "properly", and I have received my share. I may have gotten one or two, but I don't remember noticing it.
If you've never received a snake marked simply "perishable" then you haven't received many snakes.

I've been doing this for 20 years, I've seen a lot, including the current holier than thou masses with their 2 or 3 years experience, passing judgment on things some of the old timers in the hobby consider business as usual.
Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying singling out SYR for doing something that reptile shippers everywhere do every day is being unfairly judgmental.

 

[Southern Wolf]

We are so on the same page.

iMO: Another attempt to get the "big" money.

Facts as I see them, without needing anyone to "explain" it to me:

A waiver that was READ to someone (could be wrong on this, but as far as I know, the general public was not privy to the waiver?) Very hush-hush because it's a "test." Not sure why it would HAVE to be hush-hush if it were an actual test...

In reality told the reptile community to "FOLLOW UPS RULES" (UPS does not allow shipment of snakes)

Between the lines told the community "Ship your snakes though us, we got it covered" offered snake shipping boxes, helped those that lost snakes and did not clear up the issue by posting on their website..."NO SNAKES can be shipped"..so allowed the situation to continue, and they benefited.

I don't know who was first to advise the community to sneak the reptile boxes though by not labeling them (BIG RED FLAG).

In reality, any service that needs their users to sneak, and be less than honest isn't a service I would want to use anyway.

(((ducks and runs)))

Yes we are...

There are just too many red flags.... and because of it... PE's rep will take a hit most likely. Sad to say

 

[Southern Wolf]

Clay... Im not perfect... but I dont go around hiding whats in the box either.

Every box is stamped in RED.... "live harmelss Reptiles" Handle with care.... along with my URL

 

[Clay Davenport]

Clay... Im not perfect... but I dont go around hiding whats in the box either.

Every box is stamped in RED.... "live harmelss Reptiles" Handle with care.... along with my URL

That's great Kevin, but for those that interpret the Lacy Act a certain way and consider it to be the Gospel, then you might as well mark it perishable, or antique glass for that matter.
Marking it simply "Live Harmless Reptiles" is no different since you're not including the common and taxonomic name of the species contained in the package.

"Live harmless reptiles" is only a little less vague than "perishable" really.
I'm not saying you're in the wrong, I'm just making a point using the logic of a certain faction of the hobby. A harmless reptile could be a leopard gecko or a hatchling burm.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I'm not "holier than thou"..I don't try to be..really.

but the same way if this was a relatively unknown breeder/shipper we would nearly all speak up honestly and voice honest opinions. Since I try to be neutral and as honest as possible, I'll do the same for the "knowns" and I expect the same treatment in return.

Btw: my boxes are labeled correctly. I was encouraged to use SYR, but didn't because I wasn't pleased with the set up. The only thing that may be "iffy" about my shipping is that sometimes the people put their residental addresses instead of a business address...if they aren't breeders or attempting to breed (I spoke to my representative about shipping business to business) then I usually encourage them to pick up the animal from their nearest FedEx location.

Holier than Thou? No, just I worked hard to get where I am, and I am not really wanting to lose the progress I have made for a couple hundred dollars.

 

[brd7666]

Alright, it's time to shine a great big spotlight on the elephant in the room.

If SYR bent the rules a bit in the area of shipping snakes, they weren't the only ones that benefited. Everyone that used them benefited from the reduced rates of the shipments as well as the ease of the process. Had SYR not offered their service, they would have shipped their snakes just the same under their own account, or no account at all.
What were alot of you snake shippers doing before SYR came along?

Anyone who has been shipping or receiving snakes in any numbers for any length of time knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that the majority of snake shippers do not completely label their shipments with the common and scientific names of what they are shipping.

It seems there is a bandwagon mentality forming to crucify SYR for skirting the rules when it's been a common practice all along by breeders big and small.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's how it is.

I personally do not recall getting in a single shipment of snakes that were labeled "properly", and I have received my share. I may have gotten one or two, but I don't remember noticing it.
If you've never received a snake marked simply "perishable" then you haven't received many snakes.

I've been doing this for 20 years, I've seen a lot, including the current holier than thou masses with their 2 or 3 years experience, passing judgment on things some of the old timers in the hobby consider business as usual.
Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying singling out SYR for doing something that reptile shippers everywhere do every day is being unfairly judgmental.

I colored coded your quote with my responces.

Yes, people shipping did benifit from a reduced rate, but SYR's was making a profit at the same time, and don't even think they don't. That is why they are so quick in refunding people's money. Even if a snake package got confiscated and SYR's reimbursed that shipper, it would just be a cost of doing business for them. The term REPTILES is used very loosly here, and not being defined entirely, which leads to assumptions. Judging by the amount of packages they are claiming that are being sent through their account, they are easily profiting well over $50,000.00 a year from other people's packages.

Sure, but without making a profit off of others.

I have always used Fedex, it is better by far. SYR's even opened up an account for me and I have never used it. Cheaper does not mean better, I put the animal first, and one example of what I mean is, Fedex trucks are climate controled and UPS's are not.

I would say for the most part in this statement that it is business as usual. There is no reason to draw attention to your package by anouncing to the whole world what is inside regardless of who you use for shipping services. I shipped a snake Delta Dash one time and had it marked all over the box, and it never arrived at it's destination and was never found. The difference here is, someone else ( a middle man, SYR) is making a profit off of other people packages. And, in my opinion this could be placing someone's package at risk or even a higher risk.

There is a bandwagon mentality, and in this case there should be. People are being led to believe the service they are using is legitimate, and it appears it is not.

 

[Kloned]

well for me im just getting fedex certified so thats that

 

[deborahbroadus]

I colored coded your quote with my responces.

Yes, people shipping did benifit from a reduced rate, but SYR's was making a profit at the same time, and don't even think they don't. That is why they are so quick in refunding people's money. Even if a snake package got confiscated and SYR's reimbursed that shipper, it would just be a cost of doing business for them. The term REPTILES is used very loosly here, and not being defined entirely, which leads to assumptions. Judging by the amount of packages they are claiming that are being sent through their account, they are easily profiting well over $50,000.00 a year from other people's packages.

Sure, but without making a profit off of others.

I have always used Fedex, it is better by far. SYR's even opened up an account for me and I have never used it. Cheaper does not mean better, I put the animal first, and one example of what I mean is, Fedex trucks are climate controled and UPS's are not.

I would say for the most part in this statement that it is business as usual. There is no reason to draw attention to your package by anouncing to the whole world what is inside regardless of who you use for shipping services. I shipped a snake Delta Dash one time and had it marked all over the box, and it never arrived at it's destination and was never found. The difference here is, someone else ( a middle man, SYR) is making a profit off of other people packages. And, in my opinion this could be placing someone's package at risk or even a higher risk.

There is a bandwagon mentality, and in this case there should be. People are being led to believe the service they are using is legitimate, and it appears it is not.

Aye, that's the rub.

I thought we were suppose to be supporting Good Guy behaviors? Encouraging people to break rules doesn't classify as a Good Guy behavior in my book..but perhaps the rules change the further up the ladder one is?

So, If I accept Clay's argument about Knowns vs Unknowns...it would follow that I could make a career of encouraging people to break rules, laws, etc and as long as they also benefit..then I shouldn't have to go to jail, or suffer any consequences?

The argument that Unknowns jumping on the bandwagon against a Known is not a logical argument.

 

[Twizted Paths]

Where on their site does it say that you can ship snakes?

They're using a snake as their logo, they know for sure we are shipping snakes, & their how to vid uses a snake. They say they have a spiffy waiver & the animal we need a waiver to ship is snakes.

Alright, it's time to shine a great big spotlight on the elephant in the room.

If SYR bent the rules a bit in the area of shipping snakes, they weren't the only ones that benefited. Everyone that used them benefited from the reduced rates of the shipments as well as the ease of the process. Had SYR not offered their service, they would have shipped their snakes just the same under their own account, or no account at all.
What were alot of you snake shippers doing before SYR came along?

To me there is a difference between knowingly weighing the risk/benefit ratio of breaking or bending rules and thinking that I'm doing something in an acceptable approved manner.

I've told people who have never shipped before to just send it SYR, that they ship snakes. I would not have done so if I would have known their waiver didn't include snakes, if they had ever said anything when they were here addressing our concerns about using them.

What I am willing to do and what I recommend others to do are two entirely different things.

I personally do not recall getting in a single shipment of snakes that were labeled "properly", and I have received my share. I may have gotten one or two, but I don't remember noticing it.

About a third of my shipments have came in labeled properly, most of the rest were Live Harmless Reptile or some such. I've only received like 3 or so with no labeling at all in the past few years.

 

[Khaman]

Where on their site does it say that you can ship snakes?

As was pointed out they have a snake for a logo and sell snake shipping kits.

What were alot of you snake shippers doing before SYR came along?

I have only beed shipping for 5 years or so I was using Fed Ex with their approval.

Anyone who has been shipping or receiving snakes in any numbers for any length of time knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that the majority of snake shippers do not completely label their shipments with the common and scientific names of what they are shipping.

This is very true most have a very liberal way of applying the Lacy Act.

Again, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying singling out SYR for doing something that reptile shippers everywhere do every day is being unfairly judgmental.

They are getting singled out because it is supposed to be a legitimate business allowing you to legitimately ship snakes. If I received a snake through UPS from someone that did not use SYR I would not be critical. I am not critical of the old timers and how they had to sneak their shipment though that was the time and we knew the risks. I am critical of a service that says we will ship your snakes through UPS because we have a contract with them to do so but you have to be careful not to get caught so fudge your label a little.

I suspect the incident with the false water cobra was mistake, most of us consider venomous to be deadly venomous (rattlesnakes, cobras, and such) where as the FWC can be dangerous but then again so can hognose and garters but those are shipped all of the time. I suspect someone did not give it a second thought about it being slightly venomous. Maybe a list of what not to ship.

 

[Twizted Paths]

I just received a reply back from them.

They state that they did indeed have a non venomous snake specific shipping waiver from UPS.

As their waiver is not open for public viewing that's going to have to be enough for me for now.

Until this is straightened out I will not be shipping or receiving snakes through UPS at all. Through SYR or not, with the scrutiny this is causing I don't think it would be in the animals best interest at this point in time.

 

[Shadera]

I'm just finishing up with my FedEx waiver and am gonna stick with that from here on out.

Bandwagon? What I see are a lot of folks who never really got satisfactory answers from the get-go receiving even less answers now. SYR is not at this time addressing this publicly, and their site says nothing at all about halting the shipping of snakes. Business as usual I guess. Why not post publicly at least on the main site and put some or all of these fears and questions to rest if there is nothing to hide? Some if not most of us are reasonable people capable of coming to our own conclusions - no need for bandwagons.

Nothing against proexotics, I have several of their animals in my collection and love them and will buy more, but I'm not going down with the captain of the shipping ship. I learned my lesson with repster.

Did I enjoy the discounts? Heck yeah I did, and all of my shipments through them went without a hitch. But it just feels like something is being hidden from us. No one's actually laid eyes on that waiver, and this shouldn't be such a top secret project any more. The lack of response from them is what ultimately has lost them my shipping business, even if they recover.

 

[Melinda]

They are getting singled out because it is supposed to be a legitimate business allowing you to legitimately ship snakes. If I received a snake through UPS from someone that did not use SYR I would not be critical. I am not critical of the old timers and how they had to sneak their shipment though that was the time and we knew the risks. I am critical of a service that says we will ship your snakes through UPS because we have a contract with them to do so but you have to be careful not to get caught so fudge your label a little.

Ditto!

 

[brd7666]

No offence, but this is not on SYR's web site. You have posted a Google screen shot. Where does it say on SYR's web site that you can ship snakes?

 

[bwt501]

the video on the site shows Robyn packing up a Ball Python...

 

[brd7666]

the video on the site shows Robyn packing up a Ball Python...

I understand that, which could be considered misleading. Again I ask, where on SYR's web site does it say that you can ship snakes?

 

[Khaman]

No offence, but this is not on SYR's web site.

Yes, it is for google to display that it would have to be listed as a meta tag within the source HTML of shipyourreptiles.com.

 

[Khaman]

Anyone can access the source code of a website just right click and select view source

 

[brd7666]

I am not a computer programmer, but I did just take my first computer programming class in college. It appears to me that the specific html coding you did a screen shot of, is designed for search engines. Most people do not go searching through the html coding of a web site. In fact, a lot of people probably don't even know how to view the html coding. So my question has still not been answered. Where on their web site does it say in plain view, for all to see, that they are allowed to ship snakes? I rephrased it a little. Maybe that is better.

 

[Khaman]

Where on their web site does it say in plain view, for all to see, that they are allowed to ship snakes? I rephrased it a little. Maybe that is better.

It doesn't if you come to the site though a search engine to ship your snake it pops up first on the list and even says we ship them "securely and affordable", they sell you a snake shipping kit, they show a how to video using a snake to demonstrate but no where does it say they ship snakes except in the meta tags which someone from SYR had to put on there because Google and the rest of the search engines don't write sites tags they just read and display them.

I would also like to point out the site does not say they ship lizards, monitors, geckos, frogs, turtles, ect except in those meta tags but we are not questioning whether or not they ship those. We are questioning why if they have stopped shipping snakes even for a short time why have they not put a notice on the website stating as much. IMO it seems they want to say we warned you not to ship but you did..oh did you not get the email or read any of the forums we're sorry but you are just SOL. just so it will be business as usual because I would think a majority of their business is the shipping of snakes because aside from the discount that is the only thing they have going for them because every Joe with an account can ship almost everything else.