Bad Guy Justin Miller, AKA Blue Pumilio

[Lucille]

we mostly get it right.

And that is based on what feedback? From those who on your site who you can ban? How valid is that?

Obviously there is lots of disagreement with the results of your investigation of someone you are saying is a
'nice guy' and who you imply is innocent of screwing someone (because he is not banned), there are those here who seem to disagree.

 

[kerrek]

First - you have to consider if Scott Richardson is telling the truth - or at least the full story. I'm telling you he isn't sharing the full story.

Justin - has screwed up. Scott R gave me the line of "He's screwed someone out of $1,000!". It's my job as a Mod to investigate this. Not to cover it up, not to do anything else - until I find the truth.

So I asked Scott R to please give me the name of person who was "screwed" out of $1,000. He refused. If you're not going to give me the full story - do not give me any part of the story - because I will pursue the full story (again, it's my job).

It IS slander/misinformation - if it's only rumor. You need to have a name attached to the information to make it real.

What Scott R was banned for - was not "speaking ill will" of Justin. Scott was banned for posting personal communications (between he and I) on Dendroboard. This is expressly not allowed. He might eventually have gotten a light tap on the wrist for not sharing the full story - but he received a much longer ban for sharing private information.

I finally got the name of the person involved and no, he wasn't screwed out of $1,000, He wasn't exactly perfectly satisfied (but he is now if you check with him), but he wasn't "screwed".

Nobody at DB is protecting Justin. I know of one Mod who has bought anything to do with him, and that was having Justin hand pick frogs from Strictly Reptiles. So it wasn't actually a sale - the Mod paid Strictly Reptile directly.

It is my job to investigate anything like this that comes along. I take it seriously. Just is an acquaintance of mine, and personally, I think he's a nice guy. But if he had screwed someone out of $1,000 - he would be banned on DB (and I would be working hard trying to get someone their money back).
I also investigated two other stories that popped up while I was investigating the first story - and there was not a whole lot of truth to them either.

Now - Justin has a past. He surely would've been better off expressing that early on - rather than letting it be found out. He understands he needs to do a better job of doing exactly what he says he's going to do - and that has been expressed, strongly, to him.

I don't care about rare frogs. The only "rare" frogs I have are from Understory Enterprises and strictly legitimate.

I do care about the truth.

Scott
DB Moderator
Tucson, AZ

So as long as it is under $1000 its ok to screw somebody? What exactly is the dollar limit on Dendroboard for screwing people and not getting banned? What do you think of how he treated the OP in this thread? It's only $40 so I guess that's not bad?

 

[Scott85730]

If the OP would like to contact me on DB - I'll be happy to help him any way I can. As I mentioned - I looked into two other people.

I am here mainly to address ScottR's post but if the OP would like to PM me on Dendroboard I'll happily look into any issue he had.

Have a good evening.

s

So as long as it is under $1000 its ok to screw somebody? What exactly is the dollar limit on Dendroboard for screwing people and not getting banned? What do you think of how he treated the OP in this thread? It's only $40 so I guess that's not bad?

 

[Lucille]

but if the OP would like to PM me on Dendroboard

Scott was banned for posting personal communications (between he and I) on Dendroboard. This is expressly not allowed.

The problem with these 'back room deals' is that others, including future buyers, are left out in the cold. You are inviting the OP to talk to you yet saying that he is expressly not allowed to post the content of that conversation as per your rules.

That means that it is possible that something might be done (or might not) but that others who might save themselves money and aggravation by hearing about all of this and judging for themselves whether they want to do business with Justin will not have that information exchanged in this secret meeting.

That makes this system elitist. Instead of each side presenting and posting information and allowing readers to decide as is done here, the 'secret meeting' process is in effect saying that readers don't have enough smarts to decide for themselves, that the Dendroboard mods will decide for them.

I myself think that readers here have both the intelligence and the incentive to read carefully and choose what is in their own best interests as far as deciding who to do business with.

 

[Scott Richardson]

If I am leaving out part of the story, I am giving my permission to post the private messages from DB here.
The funny thing is, As he said, Scott had me banned for good for posting the private message he sent me in public. The reason for the ban was defaming a mod. They were his words. How is that defaming? If his words speaking of Justin being a good source made him look bad, that is his problem. The original ban was two weeks for speaking ill of Justin.
It was stated that he found out who I talked to. He did read my PMs to find a member on DB I talked to about Justin, but the person I referred to was on another board. Justin sells on several boards. Check the archnid and snake forums for bad dealings as well.

Yes, It is ok for him to go into other members PMs, but not for members to share their PMs in public. ACTUALLY, people post PMs all the time. It is only an issue when it is a Mods PM threatening you for speaking ill of their source for rare frogs?

 

[spawn]

Wait the mods on dendroboard have access to read your PM's???

 

[Scott Richardson]

Yes. Read the User agreement over there.

 

[Lucille]

Yes, It is ok for him to go into other members PMs, but not for members to share their PMs in public. ACTUALLY, people post PMs all the time. It is only an issue when it is a Mods PM threatening you for speaking ill of their source for rare frogs?

If that is true, if there is spying and controlling, that is sickening. If it is true, why put up with garbage like that? Not worth it. I don't see why you guys don't just come over here and advertise and talk about your frogs.

 

[Scott Richardson]

I am done there. It wasn't always the site it is now. There used to be a feedback section. There still is, but there is a NO NEGATIVE FEEDBACK rule.
You are not allowed to mention any other forum in public posts or PMs. That is a violation of the user agreement. I always thought that odd. Who would know if I mentioned one in a PM. It made sense when a mod told me my PMs could be read.
Because of this, alot of people over there aren't aware of other forums.

 

[spawn]

I am done there. It wasn't always the site it is now. There used to be a feedback section. There still is, but there is a NO NEGATIVE FEEDBACK rule.
You are not allowed to mention any other forum in public posts or PMs. That is a violation of the user agreement. I always thought that odd. Who would know if I mentioned one in a PM. It made sense when a mod told me my PMs could be read.
Because of this, alot of people over there aren't aware of other forums.

Is this a change you propose happened because of the Vertical Scope buyout? Or was this type of change in effect prior to it?

 

[Scott Richardson]

No. That policy was changed prior to vertical scope. The only real affect I see with the Vertical Scope buyout of Dendroboard is lack of oversight of mods. Granted, Kyle let them do whatever, which is why it is like it is. And why Jasper made the comment about Justin's reputation on Dendroboard. And I commented with some insight.

 

[kakiharae]

kid live at home

after this incident with this child i had some info pulled on him.

he is 22 and live at home. No degree in anything HS dropout. He has no permits but does buy from strictly and two amigos for his animals. As far as my boss can tell he must someone be importing from Panama as there are several legit breeders there but I am not going to post his personal info. This guys is just some drop shipper kid that wants to look like he knows what he is doing. Not going to get burned by some total amateur and let others have the same happen so I tried to post all my obvious lies he told and keep up with til the end but fuck dendroboard.com. I was told I was just beating up on poor little justin so i just stopped using that shit site. The above poster is right, there people are more interested in getting rare frogs then the health and safety of the frogs they get and to all frogs out there as people like this are the offenders that spread fungus and disease as they do not know how to treat or read a book on what maybe to do not have a veterinary dr, like I work for the help check this shit out.

if anyone cares i can post all the bullshit lies justin tells about the frogs he never had and waiting two months for me to pressure him to in the end have my bank investigate him and re issue me all my cards as they said basically this guy is a scammer and has about 100 complains from CC companies on him out there.

Beware of children masqarading as legit sellers and breeders. Pay more for the real thing and from legit people. you will be happier and never have to deal with a kid and total prick like Justin Miller AKA Bluepumilio.com

 

[Scott Richardson]

So apparently I am not the only one that saw the mod Scott MacDonald protects him over there. I believe that is why Scott was always the one to shut down the Taron threads and Dart Frog Connection threads. Don't want them mad in case they bring in some cool frogs regardless of their past and the people that get screwed for not knowing. There are good people on there, and some good info. But there is also some bad people and info that should be there.

 

[Scott85730]

All I'll add here is - the only rare frogs I have are from UE.

TL / DLC have been shut down (on DB) because TL is a 3 time loser. Enough chances.

Have a good day everyone.

s

 

[markpulawski]

If that is true, if there is spying and controlling, that is sickening. If it is true, why put up with garbage like that? Not worth it. I don't see why you guys don't just come over here and advertise and talk about your frogs.

Lucille you are bashing a forum you know nothing about, is this thread about DB moderation or Justin Miller? DB has taught more people in the hobby how to care for their dart frogs than any other forum, sure it has issues but so do all forums. I see Scott Richardson driving a thread about Justin, is this not about transactions with Justin, did Scott have one? Is not 3rd party info banned if names are not mentioned? Scott did you have a deal go bad? The only person I know that had an issue with dart frogs is Wes Lowthian or V Scape vivs, 1 of his Pumilio was damaged when he received and Justin replaced it about 3 weeks later. I know several people that got great and yes some rare (Costa Rican import)frogs from him. I hope the guy that got his newts from him gets it worked out, aside from that if you want to talk about DB create a thread.

 

[Lucille]

Lucille you are bashing a forum you know nothing about, is this thread about DB moderation or Justin Miller? DB has taught more people in the hobby how to care for their dart frogs than any other forum, sure it has issues but so do all forums. I see Scott Richardson driving a thread about Justin, is this not about transactions with Justin, did Scott have one? Is not 3rd party info banned if names are not mentioned? Scott did you have a deal go bad? The only person I know that had an issue with dart frogs is Wes Lowthian or V Scape vivs, 1 of his Pumilio was damaged when he received and Justin replaced it about 3 weeks later. I know several people that got great and yes some rare (Costa Rican import)frogs from him. I hope the guy that got his newts from him gets it worked out, aside from that if you want to talk about DB create a thread.

When a thread is initiated here, people may add information about transactions they have had with either of the parties, and they may also post their opinion. If Justin Miller is being called out as a Bad Guy, claims that he is somehow protected on a certain site are obviously relevant to how others see his reputation, and opinions about a site that has been alleged to protect certain members and which has been alleged to spy and control are relevant as well.

Mark, if you have come here to try to control what is said here about those people or sites that are involved in BOI threads, good luck with that.

 

[markpulawski]

When a thread is initiated here, people may add information about transactions they have had with either of the parties, and they may also post their opinion. If Justin Miller is being called out as a Bad Guy, claims that he is somehow protected on a certain site are obviously relevant to how others see his reputation, and opinions about a site that has been alleged to protect certain members and which has been alleged to spy and control are relevant as well.

Mark, if you have come here to try to control what is said here about those people or sites that are involved in BOI threads, good luck with that.

I thought 3rd party unnamed sources was banned in BOI inquiries and no Lucille I did not come here to control what is said merely correct your wrong assumptions, which I assume you made from info you got from 1 person without ever checking to see if what they said was true. Don't BOI threads ask for evidence, communications, screen shots or at least some verification of claims made? Have you ever been to DB Lucille and read the terms and rules, have you been to the site you say protects members and does not allow negative feedback and check to see that yes Justin Miller has at least 2 negative feedbacks! It seems there are only 2 people here posting on actual transactions with Justin and those are the only relevant posts until we can see some validation of claims in the other posts. If you want to believe claims made about DB by a person that was banned from DB good luck with that.

 

[markpulawski]

And for the record DB requires feedback both positive and negative to be approved by a mod before it is posted as record. We have all seen plenty of BOI threads where 3 or 4 posts in the person that created says...oh this is a mistake, I don't want a bad guy thread on this person, yet it is here. DB try's to review this feedback and if something doesn't smell right, they require further info, they will also go to the person and try and get them to make it right. I am not a mod for DB nor would I ever want to be, it was recently sold and has gone though it's own problems but those aside it is still the place to get the best info on how to keep dart frogs.

 

[Lucille]

It seems there are only 2 people here posting on actual transactions with Justin and those are the only relevant posts

Perhaps you should go read how the BOI works, and that people may in fact post their opinions and need not be a party to the transaction, (which is what you are doing now, without you having an actual transaction).
Nice try though.

 

[wyldwurm]

Perhaps you should go read how the BOI works, and that people may in fact post their opinions and need not be a party to the transaction, (which is what you are doing now, without you having an actual transaction).
Nice try though.

Well said. Looks like more than one person needs review of the forum rules.

If Mr. Underwood plans on participating, he should probably drop that type of language. There ARE people here that do not appreciate that type of language. Not to mention it is expressly against the rules.