Justin Mitcham... false advertising, poor business ethics

[Justin Mitcham]

You know what sucks Ron.. Things would of most likely turned out very different if you would of swollowed your pride and tried being a friend instead of instantly turning me into the enemy!

 

[herphobbyist]

Justin

There was a time when I did consider you a friend. I even corrected you on the actual lineage of that male when you had it wrong. I did that so you would have the correct information and history of that male. When I tried communicating with you about my concerns you started in with the profanity and name calling. That just isn't right Justin. I never called you those type of names. Then to call me a screw up because I lost my ass due to a thermostat malfunction, again not right. I have switched to Herpstat 2's since then. Good luck with all your breeding projects. Ron Radloff

 

[Cat_72]

I have read, re-read, and read the statements about these snakes, and really tried to see things the way Ron may be seeing them. The only thing I can come up with is this....

Justin,
Lets try this again... By reading these 2 statements from your web page one would get the impression you produced the male that produced the 80 offspring.

This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find.

If Ron were to read that in bold as Justin saying that HE produced the male...I can understand what he is saying....but I had to really stretch my thoughts to come up with that. As in, when Justin says "this line", he is indicating the male Ron produced, not the offspring produced out of that male. I guess if I were in Ron's shoes, I would be a bit emotional about it as well....and maybe have read it incorrectly.

Ron, if this is the case, rest assured that no one else is reading it that way, and I really believe that Justin had no intent of having it sound that way either.

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Ron... from the very beggining you calling me unethical for keeping a missexed snake I purchased from Omar..you IM me several months ago and basically called me a theif..one of the very 1st emails I sent you ,you replied demanding I send this snake to you etc..!! All in all you have been demanding , callous and insulting from the start..my harsh PRIVATE replies to your last emails was due to the fact I am sick to death of you trying to make me look bad or feel like crap because I purchased this animal and did well with it.. It makes me wonder what kind of spin you put on it to others i.e. Jim S..Sam A. etc..

 

[Bill & Amy]

I have read, re-read, and read the statements about these snakes, and really tried to see things the way Ron may be seeing them. The only thing I can come up with is this....



If Ron were to read that in bold as Justin saying that HE produced the male...I can understand what he is saying....but I had to really stretch my thoughts to come up with that. As in, when Justin says "this line", he is indicating the male Ron produced, not the offspring produced out of that male. I guess if I were in Ron's shoes, I would be a bit emotional about it as well....and maybe have read it incorrectly.

Ron, if this is the case, rest assured that no one else is reading it that way, and I really believe that Justin had no intent of having it sound that way either.

Correct, the way I read it Ron thinks the "line" started with the male he produced and Justin is starting the "line" with the babies he produced and not the male. The male was just one piece in the puzzle.

 

[herphobbyist]

Cat 72

Maybe I am misreading it. I guess maybe I should explain how it reads to me.
I think we all agree INCLUDING me that Justin created and produced the Extreme Red Albino. I think we all agree INCLUDING Justin that I created and produced the High Red Albino. Now keeping these facts in mind read the paragraph from his web page.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
EXTREME RED ALBINO'S

This line in my opinion is the finest line of albino's that exist today. This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find. Unlike most red phase hogs this line actually gain color as they mature. Over the years some albino hogs have been plagued with health and fertility issues. This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now based on the facts outlined above tell me who you think produced the male that fathered the 80 offspring? My issue with Justin is that it wasn't an Extreme Red but a High Red that I produced. I was just asking Justin to correct his page but it got out of hand. I knew I was going to take an ass kicking coming here but thought I would get some to see my side. I worked on that color gene for 6 years so I was a little upset to him rename it. I never asked Justin to mention my name. Had he just posted the father was a High Red Albino people would have been able to connect the dots. I have NO issues with what he names the offspring. Apparently the consensus is that I was wrong. Ron Radloff

 

[Bill & Amy]

So you are throwing this big stink because you want him to change "Extreme" to "High"?

 

[Bill & Amy]

Here is a thought Ron.

If you would have email him with that quote from his website and said that technically the father of you extreme reds isn't a extreme red he is technically a "high red". You might have gotten a better response from him.

Instead you send an email like this.

Subject: website
Date: 4/27/2007 10:07:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
Nice website.... However I don't appreciate you taking credit for creating the red albinos when you had NOTHING to do with it. I created that line and the only reason you produced ANY is because of your unethical business practice. Please correct your web page.

Ron Radloff ,originator of the Red Albino... dba "The Crawl Space"

Then you wonder why you got the response you did.

 

[snakemom1961]

It is so sad to see that people can't comprehend what this thread is about. I know they don't comprehend because they keep bringing up the fact that Justin now owns the male, or the offspring he produced. This thread is not about either of those 2 subjects. Then theres the albino and God theory, that speaks for itself. This thread is ABOUT the wording on his webpage. I guess I shouldn't except people to understand unless it happened to them. Justin keep in mind that just because a few people responded in your favor doesn't change anything. There are MANY that will read this and see the truth. Just because they didn't post their opinion here doesn't mean they haven't formed one. They will see the unethical ways you conduct business. I just received a CC of an email Sam sent to you regarding your post on here about the trade you 2 did. Sam asked me not to post it at this time. I assume he is a waiting on a response from you. Once he gives me the OK I will post it and people will read his side of the story. Then they can use their own judgement to decide whether what you did to him was right or unethical. Sam is one of the nicest most honest people I've ever met and has many friends and fellow herpers that can testify to that fact. Sam didn't bring the issue to this board because he just figured he'd chalk it up to experience. Ron Radloff

He Purchased The Snake In Question!!!!!!!

Where does the problem lie? It sounds to me like your a snot nosed little kid who had his blocks taken and now your complaining about it. It's not HIS problem you had your snake mis sexed. I guess in hindsight you will be more diligent aobut how your snakes are sexed. Or maybe not, just so you can come a piss and moan about how you were had.

GROW UP. You sold that snake and now it's in a breeding program that may ver well produce an income and you lost out on that.....SUCKS TO BE YOU BUDDY BOI!

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Ron, it took me awhile to get what you are referring to. I think, I understand what you're stating now. If, I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

You aren't complaining about the name of the offspring. Only that Justin calls the father a "Extreme Albino" as well. Not that he states that it is his or that the "Extreme Albino" line is his. Is this correct?

You think the way that it is worded states that Justin raised up one of his extreme albino's to produce the line?

This is the quote

EXTREME RED ALBINO'S

This line in my opinion is the finest line of albino's that exist today. This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find. Unlike most red phase hogs this line actually gain color as they mature. Over the years some albino hogs have been plagued with health and fertility issues. This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my Extreme Albino male fathered 80 offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing.

This is how you would like it to read.

EXTREME RED ALBINO'S

This line in my opinion is the finest line of albino's that exist today. This line originated by breeding together the best out crossed specimens I could find. Unlike most red phase hogs this line actually gain color as they mature. Over the years some albino hogs have been plagued with health and fertility issues. This seems to be absent in the Extremes, for example my High Red male that I used to establish my line fathered 80 Extreme Albino offspring before his 1st birthday. Truly amazing.

 

[jsrocket]

Ron, one last thought, and I mean this sincerely.

Did it ever occur to you, that if you had handled this matter more maturely and professionally, that maybe Justin would have been more receptive to your argument, and possibly even allowed you to share in his success?

Not that he would be obligated to do so, but I have found that being fair and generous in business deals has its rewards down the line.

Just my .02

 

[Justin Mitcham]

Here's his reciept copied and pasted... funny Ron decided to call them high reds after I established my line... do you really think he "worked" for three years on the high reds etc..he just got lucky and bred two outstanding snakes and produced a few animals that actually get better with age..that's why in hindsight he is so upset, it's because he didn't realize he had anything special..hence the price , normal albino's were going for 1k -1.2k that year..what did Omar pay 600 albino 200 male 50.00 shipping..LOL these really must of been special too you Ron... What if Omar rasied that pair up to find out he had two males..wonder what he'd say!!

Bill of Sale

Buyer: Omar Rodriguez
Seller: Ron Radloff
Item: 0.1 (05) Albino Western Hognose
1.0 (05)Het Albino Western Hognose

Price: $800.00
Shipping: $50.00
Balance: Paid in full

I guarantee live arrival, eating unscented live mouse pinks, accurately sexed and healthy snakes. Photo I.D. included.
Hatch date: 6/14/05


Ron Radloff: Ronald Radloff Date: 07/25/2005

 

[herphobbyist]

Dennis

Ron, it took me awhile to get what you are referring to. I think, I understand what you're stating now. If, I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

You aren't complaining about the name of the offspring. Only that Justin calls the father a "Extreme Albino" as well. Not that he states that it is his or that the "Extreme Albino" line is his. Is this correct?

You think the way that it is worded states that Justin raised up one of his extreme albino's to produce the line?

Dennis,
That is exactly what I am saying. Justin states that the Extreme line was created by him outcrossing various lines. That would mean anything labeled Extreme would have been produced by him. The male that produced Justin's 80 Extreme offspring was NOT an Extreme and should not be labeled as such since it already had a name. Maybe you still don't agree with me but I am very happy you understnd what my issue is.

All other recent posters,
I guess you would have to work on something 6 years and see it renamed in order to understand my side. I know some think this is trivial and just about a word. Try cornering Mike Tyson they call him the N word and see what just a word means to some. Ron Radloff

 

[herphobbyist]

jsrocket

I have to admit you are 100% correct about the way I handled it. I am more professional than that but let Justins emails get the best of me. Ron Radloff

 

[Cat_72]

That is exactly what I am saying. Justin states that the Extreme line was created by him outcrossing various lines. That would mean anything labeled Extreme would have been produced by him. The male that produced Justin's 80 Extreme offspring was NOT an Extreme and should not be labeled as such since it already had a name. Maybe you still don't agree with me but I am very happy you understnd what my issue is.

I see where you are coming from, Ron. I wish you could have explained it like that to begin with, and this thread may have been MUCH shorter.

Or more civil, at least.

 

[Bill & Amy]

I have to admit you are 100% correct about the way I handled it. I am more professional than that but let Justins emails get the best of me. Ron Radloff

Were they sold to Omar as "High Red"? According to Justin the receipt doesn't say that.

 

[jsrocket]

I have to admit you are 100% correct about the way I handled it. I am more professional than that but let Justins emails get the best of me. Ron Radloff

It's cool, Ron. Time to move on.

Wish you the best.

 

[Justin Mitcham]

your so full of it..

I have to admit you are 100% correct about the way I handled it. I am more professional than that but let Justins emails get the best of me. Ron Radloff

Subject: website
Date: 4/27/2007 10:07:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time
From: Herphobbyist
Reply To:
To: Asnakemann

Justin,
Nice website.... However I don't appreciate you taking credit for creating the red albinos when you had NOTHING to do with it. I created that line and the only reason you produced ANY is because of your unethical business practice. Please correct your web page.

Ron Radloff ,originator of the Red Albino... dba "The Crawl Space"

Ron you are so full of it...

1.) you claim you hatched others and worked on this project for three years hatch many clutches from multiple females all the same quality..Ron where are they all? The successive generations..why is this animal so important then..you should have plenty holdbacks..lets see them? You provided a photo ID with Omars purchase...where are the others? I'll tell you..Jim S has one a female that is under 100grams from what I hear and the other died mysteriously on Sam..where's the others..some names bro!! There are no others..thats why your here!!

2.) you claimed you were calling them high reds and you worked hard on them for years..funny your reciept don't show it, your price, nor does your site, 1st I hear of them being called this is well now!!

 

[Justin Mitcham]

sorry that should read 6 years..

 

[herphobbyist]

Justin

Actually I did work on that for 6 years. I first acquired 1.4 high red hets from Regis Opferman. Then sitting next to Lori Barcyzk on a flight returning from the Daytona Expo I asked if they had any high contrast albinos and she said they did. After soon time passed I phoned Lori and proceeded to purchase a male. It took 2 years to raise the females at which point I kept the 2 that best fit into my plans and sold the remaining 1.2 hets. I then produced the red albinos 3 years in a row. Last year I didn't produce any. That makes 6 years. Just because I didn't create a web site and advertise them doesn't mean they weren't named. Justin maybe you should post the time line on your Extreme project? When you first received the male you had the genetics wrong. I gave you the correct gentic make up and history to help you out. I find it interesting that you were able to outcross the correct bloodline in het females and get them to breeding size while claiming you only realized the snake was a male a few months before breeding season. Now thats a time line that doesn't add up. Send that male to anyone with a high red het that is NOT related to Regis's bloodline and see what you produce. I'd bet they look just like your Extreme babies.. so bascically you are the one that got lucky. Ron Radloff