pparrish
New member
Thank you so very much
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Responding to email notices you receive.
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In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.
Bad Guy Karl Koenig
- Thread starter uromastyx13
- Start date
urokeeper
Member
Mike. Believe what you want to believe! Bottom line you did not call me that next day and say anything about the male being lame and ask for your money back. Not til down the road. Thats on you. I guess we have to let bygones be bygones!
I would like to make a point about Karl. If you give a live and healthy guarantee at delivery. How would that work if the Uro's got to cold by improper packing or uro's left in cold area to long. The customer does not always get dead reptiles! The Uro's would be alive but doomed. So that means there alive but not heathy. I say this because I have had many Philbyi and they do great as wild caught. The only time I see a problem is with some female adults that dont acclimate well and gravid females. all sizes of males do great and subadult and baby females to. I cant see how Karl could have such a problem with all three?
I would like to make a point about Karl. If you give a live and healthy guarantee at delivery. How would that work if the Uro's got to cold by improper packing or uro's left in cold area to long. The customer does not always get dead reptiles! The Uro's would be alive but doomed. So that means there alive but not heathy. I say this because I have had many Philbyi and they do great as wild caught. The only time I see a problem is with some female adults that dont acclimate well and gravid females. all sizes of males do great and subadult and baby females to. I cant see how Karl could have such a problem with all three?
SouthernPrideExotics
New member
Jose Lopez is a damned annoying alias along with 20 annoying frikken aliases to the same guy in new york that floods our facebook pages, Chris M. Law and many other facebookers will gladly give you the list and keeps alligators in tiny tanks........ this same guy or not, who knows, I'm jus sayin.
SouthernPrideExotics
New member
IMO there is no "overpriced", animals are sold at prices based on breeder reputation, health, appearance, age, how fast the seller needs to sell, and what the seller is willing to let them go at.
Just because I can get certain snakes at $3o doesn't mean I won't pay $100 for the one I want (timber rattlesnakes for example)
If I buy a boa for $150 then find the same kind of boa for $75, it doesn't mean I get ripped off from an overpriced animal, It was me who agreed to pay the price for the animal I wanted
Just because I can get certain snakes at $3o doesn't mean I won't pay $100 for the one I want (timber rattlesnakes for example)
If I buy a boa for $150 then find the same kind of boa for $75, it doesn't mean I get ripped off from an overpriced animal, It was me who agreed to pay the price for the animal I wanted
SouthernPrideExotics
New member
if the price of an animal is too high for your liking, then go somewhere else to see if you can find it cheaper, it's called shopping around
maybe you'll find a good deal, maybe you won't, maybe the higher priced animal WAS the good deal
nobody forced you to pay what you paid. many times i have heard ppl say OH DONT BUY FROM HIM, he's overpriced
this isn't directed at anyone, i'm just putting my 2 cents in on "overpriced"
maybe you'll find a good deal, maybe you won't, maybe the higher priced animal WAS the good deal
nobody forced you to pay what you paid. many times i have heard ppl say OH DONT BUY FROM HIM, he's overpriced
this isn't directed at anyone, i'm just putting my 2 cents in on "overpriced"
uromastyx13
Member
I still dont know why you refer the "lame " male as if it was what ever ,knowing that poor animal had issues an as far as you answering my question of "would you of paid $800 for a pair of macfads knowing the male had neurolagical issues "? Guess ill never know since you dont wanna answer it. I tried to make things better by asking my money back you refused also asked you to exchange me for other animals and you still said no ,but its ok it is what it is yet I recognize my mistake by not saving the video of the "lame" male crawling.
As far as the trio of philbyis I shipped to karl I shipped them in a 6x7x7 insulated box with a 40 hour heat pack taped on top , when he received them he called and said the box was still warm and they looked great. Im almost positive the reason karl had no luck acclimating them because he placed them in screen aquariums with all sides open giving the animals visual stress , and also knowing its middle of winter and mostly all uros hardly eat, I also told him to try to oraly hydrate them and he always told me no that he would rather subcute fluid the animals directly to there body I have had good succes hydrating my uros oraly I told him everything I knew to save them ,but all he depended on was subcute fluids. Funny how karl blamed me saying that I sold him full grown philbyis when never in his life had he seen one and he was so confident they were full grown at barely 8 inches when I have seen dozens in person over 10 inches and he knew I was shipping him that size prior to shipping . Plain and simple the animals crashed on karl and he took out his anger on me by not paying me even though he owes me $770.
As far as the trio of philbyis I shipped to karl I shipped them in a 6x7x7 insulated box with a 40 hour heat pack taped on top , when he received them he called and said the box was still warm and they looked great. Im almost positive the reason karl had no luck acclimating them because he placed them in screen aquariums with all sides open giving the animals visual stress , and also knowing its middle of winter and mostly all uros hardly eat, I also told him to try to oraly hydrate them and he always told me no that he would rather subcute fluid the animals directly to there body I have had good succes hydrating my uros oraly I told him everything I knew to save them ,but all he depended on was subcute fluids. Funny how karl blamed me saying that I sold him full grown philbyis when never in his life had he seen one and he was so confident they were full grown at barely 8 inches when I have seen dozens in person over 10 inches and he knew I was shipping him that size prior to shipping . Plain and simple the animals crashed on karl and he took out his anger on me by not paying me even though he owes me $770.
s4sainz
Member
Anyword from karl?
Gojira1986
New member
No way do I agree w theres no such thing as over priced and an animals worth is what someone is willing to pay.
I know two ppl that would give me $600 right now for an adult Mali from my collection - bc they are beginners, have no idea what the going rate for adult malis are, and they have very well off parents. The Malis they want are not for sale right now as I have a personal attachment to them - however, if I ever did decide to sell them, I would ask $125-150 for them which is what adult malis w good patterns and in good flesh sell for on average.
I don't think it's ok to charge, for example, a starry eyed kid and his mom $300 for a baby Beardie bc they happened to fall in love w it and would pay whatever price I asked. I would charge them the same price I charge for all my Beardie babies.
is it ppls fault for not researching what an average price for the animal they are looking for is? Yes. Is it their fault for paying too much for an animal? Yes. But does it give sellers a right to be greedy andtake advantage of beginners and their naïveté? NO.
I was that starry eyed person once that saw a couple Uros at a local reptile breeders and fell in love. I would have paid $1000 for those 2 nigers bc I was awestruck. The seller knew I was a beginner and knew he could charge me $500 for a pair of recently acclimated yellow nigers.
While it was my fault for being duped, when I realized how much the seller took advantage of me, I never refered anyone to him again and have spent thousands of dollars elsewhere ever since, that original seller could have made lots of money working w me in the future if he had been less greedy initially.
No matter what breeders or brokers say, if I've heard it once I've heard it again from hobbyists "when I was starting out, I bought exclusively thru so and so bc I thought we had a friendship and I trusted him/her. Down the road I later found out he/she was charging me double/triple/quadruple/ect. Than what the same species of animal was being advertised for everywhere else and I was heartbroken and never bought from them again." in addition, those ppl usually stop buying all together bc they won't trust anyone anymore, and the hobby has lost a great keeper.
Im not going to argue this point, bc this is how I feel about it wholeheartedly and no matter what anyone says, it won't change.
I know two ppl that would give me $600 right now for an adult Mali from my collection - bc they are beginners, have no idea what the going rate for adult malis are, and they have very well off parents. The Malis they want are not for sale right now as I have a personal attachment to them - however, if I ever did decide to sell them, I would ask $125-150 for them which is what adult malis w good patterns and in good flesh sell for on average.
I don't think it's ok to charge, for example, a starry eyed kid and his mom $300 for a baby Beardie bc they happened to fall in love w it and would pay whatever price I asked. I would charge them the same price I charge for all my Beardie babies.
is it ppls fault for not researching what an average price for the animal they are looking for is? Yes. Is it their fault for paying too much for an animal? Yes. But does it give sellers a right to be greedy andtake advantage of beginners and their naïveté? NO.
I was that starry eyed person once that saw a couple Uros at a local reptile breeders and fell in love. I would have paid $1000 for those 2 nigers bc I was awestruck. The seller knew I was a beginner and knew he could charge me $500 for a pair of recently acclimated yellow nigers.
While it was my fault for being duped, when I realized how much the seller took advantage of me, I never refered anyone to him again and have spent thousands of dollars elsewhere ever since, that original seller could have made lots of money working w me in the future if he had been less greedy initially.
No matter what breeders or brokers say, if I've heard it once I've heard it again from hobbyists "when I was starting out, I bought exclusively thru so and so bc I thought we had a friendship and I trusted him/her. Down the road I later found out he/she was charging me double/triple/quadruple/ect. Than what the same species of animal was being advertised for everywhere else and I was heartbroken and never bought from them again." in addition, those ppl usually stop buying all together bc they won't trust anyone anymore, and the hobby has lost a great keeper.
Im not going to argue this point, bc this is how I feel about it wholeheartedly and no matter what anyone says, it won't change.
urokeeper
Member
Hey Mike. 8-8-2011
called you a couple of times. Wanted to talk about the Macfad pair. I thought about you asking me about taking them back!
I would of if I still had the extra male. But, I sold him to Nick and Austin after you bought them. I did tell you all about the male 's back legs and showed you them when I delivered. I want to be fair with you and you with me! I received $700.00 for each macfad that I sold. I sold you the pair for $800.00. Also the female was gravid. which I did not know. You didn't offer them back when she was gravid.
You have some rare uro's there. wait till next year and see if they breed for you or one of the
Ok Mike.
I went through my records and you pay paled me the $800.00 on June 13, 2011 and with in the week we met at the main place mall. I spent over a half hour showing you the Macfads. You called me the week of August and asked to return the Macfads. I know this because you asked to trade them for a pair of Benti I had just bought. And I also came across a email that I was going to send to you. But I decided not to. That email is above here and the date of 8-8 2011. This is the first time that you asked to return the Macfads.
See. If you would have asked me to take them back the next day I would have just refunded your money and took the Macfads back. I checked and I did not withdraw the $800.00 from my paypal account for a month. If I deceived you with a sick male Macfad than why did you not mention it to Lindsay when you were asking advice on the gravid female. I also gave you a few outdoor pond/cages with screen tops after the Macfad deal. You were happy. No problems! I am guilty of not getting back to you when you asked.
That was not right of me! But I was really eradiated that you wanted to give them back after you failed with the eggs.
You are not fair!
called you a couple of times. Wanted to talk about the Macfad pair. I thought about you asking me about taking them back!
I would of if I still had the extra male. But, I sold him to Nick and Austin after you bought them. I did tell you all about the male 's back legs and showed you them when I delivered. I want to be fair with you and you with me! I received $700.00 for each macfad that I sold. I sold you the pair for $800.00. Also the female was gravid. which I did not know. You didn't offer them back when she was gravid.
You have some rare uro's there. wait till next year and see if they breed for you or one of the
Ok Mike.
I went through my records and you pay paled me the $800.00 on June 13, 2011 and with in the week we met at the main place mall. I spent over a half hour showing you the Macfads. You called me the week of August and asked to return the Macfads. I know this because you asked to trade them for a pair of Benti I had just bought. And I also came across a email that I was going to send to you. But I decided not to. That email is above here and the date of 8-8 2011. This is the first time that you asked to return the Macfads.
See. If you would have asked me to take them back the next day I would have just refunded your money and took the Macfads back. I checked and I did not withdraw the $800.00 from my paypal account for a month. If I deceived you with a sick male Macfad than why did you not mention it to Lindsay when you were asking advice on the gravid female. I also gave you a few outdoor pond/cages with screen tops after the Macfad deal. You were happy. No problems! I am guilty of not getting back to you when you asked.
That was not right of me! But I was really eradiated that you wanted to give them back after you failed with the eggs.
You are not fair!
urokeeper
Member
To high of price
LOL! Come on Natalie.
Think about what you just said. That would be like saying your Dad is a crook.
Because he is an Attorney. He charges lots of money to people that are down on there luck.
I like quality! Its cheaper in the long run
LOL! Come on Natalie.
Think about what you just said. That would be like saying your Dad is a crook.
Because he is an Attorney. He charges lots of money to people that are down on there luck.
I like quality! Its cheaper in the long run
urokeeper
Member
Karl
For the record! I think Karl is wrong. Mike should be paid.
This is a lesson in business though. There is many ways to loose, Thats why Reward (profit) has to out weigh Risk.
You can not count your money til you take it off the table.
For the record! I think Karl is wrong. Mike should be paid.
This is a lesson in business though. There is many ways to loose, Thats why Reward (profit) has to out weigh Risk.
You can not count your money til you take it off the table.
Gojira1986
New member
First of all - my dad isn't a crook bc he's an attorney.
9 out of 10 ppl he represents that are "down on their" luck as you put it Jerry, are "down on their luck" bc of their own doing and choices. They broke the law or chose to associate themselves w criminal activity and that's why they need a lawyer. My dad charges the same hourly rate as other lawyers in our area with the same level of experience and expertise as him. The price doesn't change based on how much money a client has, or how much trouble a client is, or how much a client has to lose if they go to jail.
I highly think my dad is comparable to someone who jacks up their asking prices bc they can or bc they are dealing w a someone who doesn't know any better; or in some cases, bc they know a potential buyer is wealthy or their family or parents are weathly.
This is the last I'm going to post on this issue, and I would like to end with this .. In my particular situation, and many ppl I know who are involved with reptile's situation, when I finally became aware of the ppl who were overcharging me for animals bc they knew they could, I took my business elsewhere. This is the case for countless others I know; when they realized the person/ppl they were giving all their business to bc they trusted them were charging them excessively high prices bc the seller knew the buyer trusted them and didn't know any better, they took their business elsewhere - if the sellers had been fair from the get go, they still would have made money and would have had a loyal lifetime customer.
I've been dealing with one person recently for purchases, mainly bc even in the beginning, when he knew I would pay very high prices for his animals bc I had the money, and had been paying very high prices for animals of similar quality up until then bc I had blindly trusted sellers, this guy charged me what the animals were actually worth, not as much as he could possibly get out of me. He didn't get greedy, and for that, I will buy from him forever.
I enjoy quality too Jerry, and there are many quality animals out there for fair, accurate prices - and those animals stay at those fair, accurate prices regardless of what the knowledge level or financial situation is of the person looking to buy.
9 out of 10 ppl he represents that are "down on their" luck as you put it Jerry, are "down on their luck" bc of their own doing and choices. They broke the law or chose to associate themselves w criminal activity and that's why they need a lawyer. My dad charges the same hourly rate as other lawyers in our area with the same level of experience and expertise as him. The price doesn't change based on how much money a client has, or how much trouble a client is, or how much a client has to lose if they go to jail.
I highly think my dad is comparable to someone who jacks up their asking prices bc they can or bc they are dealing w a someone who doesn't know any better; or in some cases, bc they know a potential buyer is wealthy or their family or parents are weathly.
This is the last I'm going to post on this issue, and I would like to end with this .. In my particular situation, and many ppl I know who are involved with reptile's situation, when I finally became aware of the ppl who were overcharging me for animals bc they knew they could, I took my business elsewhere. This is the case for countless others I know; when they realized the person/ppl they were giving all their business to bc they trusted them were charging them excessively high prices bc the seller knew the buyer trusted them and didn't know any better, they took their business elsewhere - if the sellers had been fair from the get go, they still would have made money and would have had a loyal lifetime customer.
I've been dealing with one person recently for purchases, mainly bc even in the beginning, when he knew I would pay very high prices for his animals bc I had the money, and had been paying very high prices for animals of similar quality up until then bc I had blindly trusted sellers, this guy charged me what the animals were actually worth, not as much as he could possibly get out of me. He didn't get greedy, and for that, I will buy from him forever.
I enjoy quality too Jerry, and there are many quality animals out there for fair, accurate prices - and those animals stay at those fair, accurate prices regardless of what the knowledge level or financial situation is of the person looking to buy.
pparrish
New member
Glad we kinda got back to Karl. That's where/how this thread got started.
So Jerry, you think Karl should pay Mike in that situation. What do you think would be the right thing for Karl to do where I'm concerned....or where Natalie is concerned?
So Jerry, you think Karl should pay Mike in that situation. What do you think would be the right thing for Karl to do where I'm concerned....or where Natalie is concerned?
urokeeper
Member
Well, I think that a fair compromise would be for Karl to give Mike the price that he paid for the Philbyi plus the shipping price. I say that because. Mike did not guarantee the Uro's but if they all went down hill something must of went wrong in shipping. That way mike looses only his time and Karl lost what the uros cost because he took the risk of buying wild caught reptiles.
Than they can go there separate ways.
And Natalie. I dont think your dad is a crook. I was making a point that you can not broad brush!
I dont sell to kids! I do not deal in low end uro's or abundant. How ever you want to call it.
I have been keeping uros since 1994. I have seen over a thousand Benti come in to the country in the late 90's. Not but a hand full left! I believe a heathy price will keep these creatures out of the hands of irresponsible keepers that will result in there demise.
Than they can go there separate ways.
And Natalie. I dont think your dad is a crook. I was making a point that you can not broad brush!
I dont sell to kids! I do not deal in low end uro's or abundant. How ever you want to call it.
I have been keeping uros since 1994. I have seen over a thousand Benti come in to the country in the late 90's. Not but a hand full left! I believe a heathy price will keep these creatures out of the hands of irresponsible keepers that will result in there demise.
urokeeper
Member
For the record Natalie. I offered you uros because I thought you new how to take care of them not because you had money!
I dont make my money from reptiles. its hobby.
I dont make my money from reptiles. its hobby.
pparrish
New member
Finally, a straight answer for Mike. Care to give an opinion on #30 and #39 of this thread? I believe Karl has probably screwed many people out of money here and there. And for what? $260.00? $700.00? If I were a Uro Breeder my concern would be all the "Karls" out there turning potentially good customers into people that don't trust any Uro Breeder. Take myself for example, I don't breed these things, and I do not know anyone personally that does. My daughter took an interest in them so I took a chance on someone and bought her one. She expressed further interest in wanting to try her hand at breeding them so looked for a female. Then I got burned! You guys are 1 for 1 as far as I'm concerned. Who's an honest breeder? Who will rip me off? I don't know, obviously. The point is, now I'm extra leery. All thanks to Karl, one bad apple.
DNA Dragons
Breeder
Understanding the value of reptiles in like understanding the value of art. Each artist has independent variables contributing to the value of their own work beyond the "picture."
It is the consumers responsibility to make educated purchases. It is not price gouging when a breeder factors in thinks like "time, food, care, etc" into his profits. Some people do this as a hobby and they can afford to take losses or make very slim margins. Unfortunately some people consider hobbiest breeders the standard for "fair market value" when they don't share the financial burden of the professional level breeders or dealers.
It is the consumers responsibility to make educated purchases. It is not price gouging when a breeder factors in thinks like "time, food, care, etc" into his profits. Some people do this as a hobby and they can afford to take losses or make very slim margins. Unfortunately some people consider hobbiest breeders the standard for "fair market value" when they don't share the financial burden of the professional level breeders or dealers.
urokeeper
Member
Exactly Clay.
When looking for a good uro. One needs to look for true captive bred or truly acclimated, By that I mean a uromastyx that has been in some one care for at least a month and eating well,good weight gain, fecal solid.
Also the seller willing to help with the transition to the new cage of the new owner. No that they can live for weeks with out eating before dieing.
When looking for a good uro. One needs to look for true captive bred or truly acclimated, By that I mean a uromastyx that has been in some one care for at least a month and eating well,good weight gain, fecal solid.
Also the seller willing to help with the transition to the new cage of the new owner. No that they can live for weeks with out eating before dieing.
Chris Kennard
Well-known member
LOL! Come on Natalie.
Think about what you just said. That would be like saying your Dad is a crook.
Because he is an Attorney. He charges lots of money to people that are down on there luck.
I like quality! Its cheaper in the long run
I think you could have disagreed with Natalie without posting this ridiculous and way out of line post. Lawyers often don't get paid and spend half of their career, much like people in medicine, paying off their education.
Chris Kennard
Well-known member
LOL! A familiar statement made by so many here on the BOI. You wouldn't be here posting if it was just a hobby and you made no money from your "hobby".