KelliH and others Banned? Why?

[Art Klass]

Whoever is giving negative ratings on the certification to the people involved in this need to go back and remove them. That is uncalled for.

I had given out some negative ratings thismorning when I was angry. I had not thought it through. I believe that my doing so was wrong and I have already removed my ratings. I don't believe what was done was right, however that does not mean that these individuals are people that you should not do business with. I stand corrected. I apologize.

 

[Lucille]

I had given out some negative ratings thismorning when I was angry. I had not thought it through. I believe that my doing so was wrong and I have already removed my ratings. I don't believe what was done was right, however that does not mean that these individuals are people that you should not do business with. I stand corrected. I apologize.

I respect your opinion, Art, but respectfully disagree.
I think to agree to be moderators on a man's forum, accept those responsibilities to help and improve the site and promote goodwill, and to go to another forum and backstab both him, and the site he has put years of his life into, shows a huge lack of integrity in my opinion. And, to me, integrity is a quality that is important in the commercial world as well as interpersonal relationships.
For instance: people, in the beginning, tried to separate Chris Johnson's ripping and tearing up people he did not care for from his commercial endeavors. Some of them probably now think that when one shows a lack of integrity in one area, it might carry over elsewhere. I would not do business with Chris and I will not do business with anyone who is gleefully and publicly nasty, hurtful and derogatory.
I have a right to my vote and I cast it, and it will not change.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

But where do you draw the line between TRUTH and hurtful and derogatory? It's all a matter of opinion, isn't it?

 

[www.leogeckos.com]

The forum will not be the same without Marcia, Kelli, Paul, Jeanne, and all the others that were "banned". They were very helpful and produced awesome geckos. It is to bad that they had to be Banned for whatever reason. I still do not understand why they are being banned, it seems like its for a childish reason.

 

[LeosForLess]

Anybody kno or wants to say who told Rich? Im sure we will probably know in the long run, but they would be better fessing up now than later...

 

[ShannanD25]

actions warranting bad rep would be like Dan Quinn ripping people off. I don't think people bad mouthing one another reflects on business practices, nor warrants bad guy points, especially if you are the one being bad mouthed.
People talk about people everyday, best friends bitcx^ about one another all the time....Employees bitc^ about their bosses all the time. You can't tell me there is one person out there who has not complained about another at one time or another. The bad thing here is that it was all "public", never meant to be read by anyone but a few, but there it was. You can't hold that against a person's business practices because they hurt your feelings. Now if they scam you....BIG difference
No one intends to get caught bad mouthing another person. But everyone does it...

 

[WebSlave]

I do believe that some of you are overlooking a rather important point in all this. Those people banned were not planning on remaining here anyway. In an email I got from Kelli this morning after I sent her an email with screen shots of that thread, she made the following statement in closing:

I admit you trumped my ace on this one.

Now what do you suppose that meant?

In my opinion, both Kelli and Marcia knew about the new forum site Kelli was setting up at the time they accepted the moderator positions here on this site. From their comments, there is little doubt in my mind that they were planning to completely abandon this site, quite likely trying to recruit as many members as they could from the Leopard Gecko forum here in the process. It is my belief that my blocking their access to this site only sped up their agenda a bit. Nothing was really lost with them being banned except maybe a short period of time with them making token gestures at participating here while contacting other members with invitation to their site. I'm sorry, but does no one else see a bit of betrayal here with the Leopard Gecko moderator planning something like this behind the scenes?That the level of animosity exposed in that thread on Kelli's site runs way too deeply for me to believe anything else about their future plans?

What else could that "ace" of Kelli's really mentioning really mean?

No, I really do regret what has unfolded, but in my opinion it was inevitable. Those people were intent on taking their ball and bat and going home anyway, and trying to take some of the team along with them as well for their own backyard ballpark.

Which I do expect will happen. So to those that do go there, all I can say is to watch your back and beware the crocodile's smile. They are not trying to draw you over there for your benefit, but obviously and in my opinion solely doing so in an attempt to hurt this site. This is spite in it's purest form, IMHO.

 

[perefalcon]

That's It I Can't Stand It Anymore You Are An Arrogant Ass, Just Ban Me I'm Done Here, I'm Sorry I Ever Wasted My Time Here, You Don't Care About Other People Opinions All You Care About Is The People Who Suck Up To You. I Have No Use For People Like You

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

Being one of the victims of their nastiness, I would like to share my thoughts.
__________________

I personally was more disappointed with the behavior shown on that forum then angry. Kelli & Marcia both I respected very much. I would never have dreamed that they specifically would lack the honesty & integrity that was shown in that thread. The most of the others did not bother me as much as those do not have the reputation that Kelli & Marcia do, and do not (in my eyes) have as much weight in the community.

If their was so much animosity toward Fauna, why were three of them Mods here? Why was that forum to remain private by invitation only until a specific release date (after everything was deleted from the original forum and a clean slate presented - per Kelli & Marcia both)? Why would it be ok to state what was said, and then have it removed in a day or two?
__________________

I applaud the individual who stepped up and did the right thing by allowing the reptile community as a whole to see what was being said. I would much rather know someone has a problem with me, then for their to be gossiping behind my back while I'm spoken to sweetly by the offending party.
__________________

I agree with Lucille that that the lack of tact and integrity shown in that thread speaks volumes about them in a personal & business sense. Will the individuals who attacked Fauna and its members lose business? Maybe. But the consequences should have been thought of prior to doing what was done. It's a little late to cry over spilled milk.
__________________

I do not think the individuals who were banned or willingly left Fauna will cause the downfall of the Leopard Gecko forum here (or Fauna in general). Their are a lot of individuals here that have the knowledge and passion that they have and would benefit this community. I myself for the most part stopped posting in the Leo forum because I did feel it "cliquey." I of course kept it to myself and went about my life coming in now and again to see if anything interesting popped up.
__________________

Should the three Fauna Mods have had their privileges yanked? I think so. Should they have been banned? I don't know. Probably if I was in Rich's position I would have done the same thing. Why have them here if they have nothing positive to say about Fauna and its community? They claim they were going to leave anyway...Well, let them go then I guess.
__________________

Will the individuals banned here on Fauna also have a suspended GGC?
__________________

I for one will continue feeling disappointed about what happened and with the individuals that are involved.

 

[sugarkornbizkits]

Rich, you did the right thing, man. To see this has been so disappointing for me-the people that I trusted most and looked up to, acting like this? I thought I had left high school! When will these people grow up? The forums won't be the same, but as stated before, why would we want backstabbers like that among us, anyways?

 

[Fedawg]

I take it you read the rest of this thread. Are you saying that if those people said those things to and about you, and you were in my shoes, you would just allow them to stay?

Well as much as I know most of the people who were banned , are really good people. Im gonna have to go with Rich on this one.

This is HIS site , whether you like it or not. I do think he had a very good reason to do so. Like he said , put yourself in his shoes.

Rich , this might be irrelevant, but I have to say it , whether it gets me banned or not:

Do something about Lucille

This lady is the biggest hypocript I have ever seen , deleting peoples post of a certain nature , when allowing others of the same nature to stay , maybe she has something against some people???

This lady chooses to abuse her "powers" (lol) , at others expense , and i can see by the amount of posts and threads she has started , she just has no other life.

I said what I said , take it for what it is.

 

[LeosForLess]

Well as much as I know most of the people who were banned , are really good people. Im gonna have to go with Rich on this one.

This is HIS site , whether you like it or not. I do think he had a very good reason to do so. Like he said , put yourself in his shoes.

Rich , this might be irrelevant, but I have to say it , whether it gets me banned or not:

Do something about Lucille

This lady is the biggest hypocript I have ever seen , deleting peoples post of a certain nature , when allowing others of the same nature to stay , maybe she has something against some people???

This lady chooses to abuse her "powers" (lol) , at others expense , and i can see by the amount of posts and threads she has started , she just has no other life.

I said what I said , take it for what it is.

Lol Derek

 

[WebSlave]

That's It I Can't Stand It Anymore You Are An Arrogant Ass, Just Ban Me I'm Done Here, I'm Sorry I Ever Wasted My Time Here, You Don't Care About Other People Opinions All You Care About Is The People Who Suck Up To You. I Have No Use For People Like You

 

[DontShootMe]

ummm... wow! I don't post here much but I read up on the forums just about everyday. Alot of the people that were talked about on the other forum, if they weren't talked about they'd probably be defending the "other" side. Just an opinion don't shoot me!

 

[kmurphy]

Don't Shoot Me -

ummm... wow! I don't post here much but I read up on the forums just about everyday. Alot of the people that were talked about on the other forum, if they weren't talked about they'd probably be defending the "other" side. Just an opinion don't shoot me!

Well I wasn't talked about. There really isn't a defense for the "other side" even they wanted it kept secret. They would have been happy to be closet back stabbers.

perefalcon

That's It I Can't Stand It Anymore You Are An Arrogant Ass, Just Ban Me I'm Done Here, I'm Sorry I Ever Wasted My Time Here, You Don't Care About Other People Opinions All You Care About Is The People Who Suck Up To You. I Have No Use For People Like You

You've now got your badge. You can go to the other site with your head held high. I don't know if you'll get banned here but if it were me I wouldn't give you the honor.

ShannonD25

On my little site, I may be owner, but I do not have control over booting people. My administrator does. If someone calls me a bitc^ somewhere else, but has provided my customers with some good info, and are a valuable informational asset, I will want to ban them for personal reasons, but my admin people would say, but...they provide good info and we would discuss it and they would overrule me

So what you're proposing is kind of a sliding scale. The more you contribute the more you can be an AH. Say these people were nobodies in the leo forum. Would anyone care, or come to their defense? I think this whole thread would be about what a$$es they are and if they don't like fauna they can stay where they are and good riddance.

 

[aliceinwl]

It's a pity that something like this happened and everyone started reacting based on emotions rather than logic. I think the thread on the other site was mean spirited, but I'd seen similar threads about members on the hell forum in the past (main reason I never went there). Ultimately this will hurt Fauna and the leo forum most of all.

I can't help but see a parallel between what happened a few years back to the KS Leo forum. There was a mass banning of a bunch of the most knowledgable people. They settled here and others followed. By banning them and stripping them of their moderator positions, others who wish to take advantage of their knowledge will be forced to go elsewhere. On KS the number of posts on the leo forum plummeted and it's been in steady decline.

As hurtful, as some of the things said were, I think that the best thing for this site would have been to ignore it. Other forums have sprung up since I've been on fauna, they enjoy a brief period of popularity, but gradually everyone gravitated back over here since most of the posts were redundant in the first place. I think that the same thing would have eventually happened here.

As long as the name calling didn't occur here, the mods / members were fulfilling their duties, these bannings should not have occurred.

-Alice

P.S. I would have been really hurt, had I seen my name on a list like that, posted by people I thought were my friends. There are individuals that rub me the wrong way, but I recognize that there are probably just as many people out there "putting up" with me. If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all (and if you can't do that, make sure it stays private).

 

[nicolai]

That's It I Can't Stand It Anymore You Are An Arrogant Ass, Just Ban Me I'm Done Here, I'm Sorry I Ever Wasted My Time Here, You Don't Care About Other People Opinions All You Care About Is The People Who Suck Up To You. I Have No Use For People Like You

I bet In ten minutes i will see a post elsewhere saying " I really told him off over there, see what I did, please pat me on the back!!! Can i be one of the gang here now??"

I am sure we are going to see more of this for a while why people try to make martyrs of themselves in order to highten their stature elsewhere. there will be a"group" of people i am sure that will shouting from the roof tops "Look at me, I told them off and got banned from fauna" as if it will be some kind of status symbol for them to carry around for life. I bet some of them will look back in a few months and say "why the hell did i do that?". I sure it feels good right now to run with the pack but you may have second thoughts later when things cool down and you want to be a part of other things here.

But these people should remember a few things. If Kelly's site doesn't stick around for the long run, Where will you go to talk about your leos? Whats happens when someone decides to put a bad guys post on the BOI about you?? your banned and cant even defend yourself!! What happens when potential customers read all this and decide not to do business with you for ethics reasons.

Some of you in the gecko community may see this as" Take Kelly's side or Rich's side" so everyone will know where you stand. A few have already done that. Didn't anyone ever teach you about burning bridges?? You never know what can happen in the future and if you burn the bridges you cross you may not have anywhere to return to.

I have leopard geckos, I participated in the hayden funds on both sites (fauna and TSE), I like Kelli and Marcia, and Jeanne and a whole lot of others in the leopard gecko community. I visit the leo forum on a regular basis and enjoy the photos and conversation. I belong to many many other reptile sites besides this one. I don't know how everything thats happening now can possibly be good for the leo community or for the reptile community in general.

 

[jglass38]

Sounds to me like an ego has gotten out of hand. I'll leave it up to everyone to decide for themselves whose it is. I have my thoughts on it...

 

[Chameleon Company]

I have read both threads ....... phewwww !

Griz writes (in the other thread):

They say that character is who you are when nobody is looking.

This is in the context that those participating in the other thread thought it was blocked from public view. It is one of the most poignant and accurate statements I have read lately. Well put Bob!

Wendy, you write this, from earlier in this thread:

I got pulled as a mod but not banned, I mentioned 4 people that are members here that I do not always like, none of them mods just regluar posters. If Id of said it here in HELL it would have been fine so I don't see why I can't say it other places.

You also mentioned me as a "friend" with whom you had major differences. We have traded views on the phone, in threads, etc, and not always in agreement. One thing I would expect of a "friend" would be to keep the negative gossip and feelings out of a public forum, while a "non-friend" would be under no such expectation, but maybe that's just me.

Here's the rub. Wendy, you seem to create a class distinction, between "mods" and "just regular posters", as if criticizing the lower class should be more acceptable than the upper class. While I don't agree with the concept of HELL, the mods forum where they bash members, etc, lets just use your own characterization. If mods are "special", and deserving of more respect, then I would say that it is a fair implication by your own words that more is expected of them, and how they conduct themselves relative to us common folks. That is where you fell short, although I do not think you should have lost your mod status, just been warned, as I also think respect should not be a 2-tiered system. I also think HELL is a bit of a double-standard quandary for that reason, as well as the mod-forum if it is used as a place to bash us common folks.

While Rich and I have had our disagreements, I have no problem with his rationale. It both amazes and amuses me that people think that "free-speech" carries some guarantee of no-accountability for what is said !

 

[nicolai]

I honostly dont think is has anything to do with egos. i think it has everything to do with someone getting thier feeling hurt by a situation that happened a year ago when it wasnt the other persons intention to do so.
The whole thing is one big misunderstanding. On one hand you have a person that had a terrible loss and was and is very emotional about it and didnt want or need any critisism or doubt placed about them in thier personal ordeal. On the other hand you have a person that was trying to do what was best for thier site and was drug into a situation that he couldnt have very much control or say over and had everyone best interest, not just his own at heart..
Things were said and taken out of context on both sides and alas we end up here, where yet again the reptile community in general will suffer in the long run. I am sure this will has a ripple effect for a long time to come.
Even though I dont think that "they" thought anyone would ever find out about what was being said on that forum, they must of considered that fact when they posted it there. I dont know what Her long term plan was with that forum but if she did indeed plan on taking all her friends and supporters with her to that site she should have been upfront with rich about it and resigned herself as a mod if Rich felt it was a conflict of interest. if that would have happened everyone could have walked away with thier feelings, morals and ethical principles intact, all could still be members of both sites, the reptile community would have another site to visit and enjoy the hobby without this entire fiasco dragging everyone into a who's with who battle drawing lines in the sand.
If anyone can point out to me how this whole situation can possibly benefit the leo family or the reptile community in general I would love to hear it.
I would rant some nore but I have to head to the Hamburg PA show now to go spend all my money on some new aquisitions and make some new friends. I guarentee you atleast one person bring this situation up with me while I am there!!