KelliH and others Banned? Why?

[robin d.]

Robin, I find your statement somewhat amusing since many of you were obviously and graphicly judging Rich, this site, and others; are you saying that is a privilege reserved only for you? ......

we werent judging we were basing it on our experiences with him and others. just because i do not like you doesnt mean i am judging you. get it?

 

[varnyard]

the site was a public domain... the thread was public .. only a few people knew of the site because they were helping with suggestions trying out the new forum and working out the kinks ... why invite the entore comunity to a forum which isnt complete yet ... hiden room? where are you getting that? pftt there are hidden rooms here and if you think i am lieing you really need to step back even rooms hidden from the forum moderators.

No one was going to know about that site, or the threads of backbiting. It was said it was for a select few. So how could you make out now like it was well known? Nope, no swamp land for me, I am not in need of any. However I do like Arizona.

 

[WebSlave]

the site was a public domain... the thread was public .. only a few people knew of the site because they were helping with suggestions trying out the new forum and working out the kinks ... why invite the entore comunity to a forum which isnt complete yet ... hiden room? where are you getting that? pftt there are hidden rooms here and if you think i am lieing you really need to step back even rooms hidden from the forum moderators.

Uh, then why is Wendy being accused of being a traitor for being the one who informed me of that thread? How can that be considered as being traitorous? It implies a betrayal of sorts. That someone expected something from someone that was not realized but by honor, expected. To keep a secret, perhaps? Why should it have been kept secret?

Sorry, I just don't understand what is being presented here as reasons.

 

[varnyard]

Uh, then why is Wendy being accused of being a traitor for being the one who informed me of that thread? How can that be considered as being traitorous? It implies a betrayal of sorts. That someone expected something from someone that was not realized but by honor, expected. To keep a secret, perhaps? Why should it have been kept secret?

Sorry, I just don't understand what is being presented here as reasons.

Exactly!!!

 

[bcfos]

Robin, I find your statement somewhat amusing since many of you were obviously and graphicly judging Rich, this site, and others; are you saying that is a privilege reserved only for you? ......

So you are the one without sin and you can cast that first stone huh?

Also Bobby Hill and others who seem to think that they are owed an apology because people said how they HONESTLY felt..... give me a break and grow up. Not everyone in the world is going to like one another and I will be damned if I will ever apologize for saying how I HONESTLY feel about anyone or anything.

And this right here is how it is. Time to pack our "baggage" in the trunk and move on with more "productive" things don't you all think??

 

[varnyard]

And this right here is how it is. Time to pack our "baggage" in the trunk and move on with more "productive" things don't you all think??

I agree it is time to move on. But the whole honesty thing above, is wrong. IMO, I have never met a honest back biter.

 

[robin d.]

I don't really think "bashing" is going on as you infer it, Robin. I think the question being asked of the participants in that thread is "what the hell were you thinking?" If my posts have made the appearance of "bashing" then I do apologize for that and hope to steer things away from that appearance.

I placed a post in the moderators forum back in mid April to expressly solicit of the moderators (which these members WERE participants of) to open up and lay it on the line about ANY issues they may have with other moderators here. To get it out of their systems and just deal with it. To see if there were some issues that might affect everyone's ability to do the best job here. This obviously included myself as well, and I had certainly hoped that no one would have accepted the job of being a moderator who had a hidden chip on their shoulder. Did they bring it up and try to deal with it openly? Did they try to at least get the issues out on the table so they could be addressed and if not resolved, at least give the opportunity for steps to be taken in that direction? Didn't they WANT to at least try to resolve this issues?

No, apparently, they did not. Instead, when presented with the opportunity to discuss such things (supposedly behind my back and others) they jumped at the chance in a very ugly manner on Kelli's site. That was supposed to be FUNNY? Purposely hurting people in public is FUNNY?

So why the heck did they do that? To keep the moderator's positions they had? To keep me and others from knowing how they REALLY felt? What was to be gained by doing that? Did they PREFER keeping the anger and hostility inside and hidden? They obviously preferred to hide it, but for what motive? Was being a moderator here so danged important to them that they were willing to jeopardize their credibility and reputation of honesty to keep it? Honestly, I just don't understand the reasoning.

So no, I think most of the bashing you hear is really just some people bashing their head against the desk trying to understand WHY. What was to be gained by doing what they did in that fashion?

i would like to know why in your mod section where only you ,DT, Ken and dr ownen, have acess.. i was the subject... it was on a hidden forum ... i was not aware of it or emailed about it. i found out through another site where the transcripts happen to be posted ... so now tell me whats the differenc?

oh this thread about leaving spaces. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=398799&postcount=501 the photo there was not an attachment but rather one of the photos you removed before reaching the 301 limit and stopping

I remember also, the people of God I knew. It is, I think, a position of trust and respect.

And Marcia is 100% correct, religious folks are not above human failings, there are those who abuse that trust given them by God and man.

Look at the stories about the priests sexually abusing the young children entrusted into their care. The news stories one sees of church notaries who steal and make off with the contributions that families, many times poor families, sacrifice and tithe to see the work of God done. Yes, such horrors exist; but joining this group I think, should be avoided.

That we all stumble and fall once in a while is a given. What I have seen lately is a degree of relish and glee in the descent that does not become those who hold a holy calling.

One would expect that those entrusted with such a calling would do their best to follow the teachings of the Bible, to be kind, to follow the commandment to 'treat thy neighbor as thyself'. I don't see that happening, here.

adding her two cents to the drama

[quoteAs for lack of class, thats funny, looking back on that screen shot of Kelli's old site. Yes, Kelli and Paul showed all kind of class on that one. [/quote]

As for those people over on Kelli's site ostracizing you, I really can't see where that is any real big loss. If I never had any contact with any of them ever again, it would be no loss to me whatsoever.

Rich Zuchowski

That is the problem when associating with liars. They know exactly what it is to be a liar, so they assume everyone else is as well. I have no desire nor reason to involve myself with their issues in any manner whatsoever.

Rich Zuchowskil/quote]

plus ken post towards me but thats his opinion and words and i think nothing less of him because he has never done anything to me personally

so there are some examples

 

[robin d.]

No one was going to know about that site, or the threads of backbiting. It was said it was for a select few. So how could you make out now like it was well known? Nope, no swamp land for me, I am not in need of any. However I do like Arizona.

it was for a select few to try it out to work out any kinks ... it's not like it was hiden just a few peole were invited to help test it and work out the kinks ... until all the kinks got worked out and it was announced to the public in it's complete version.

 

[robin d.]

Uh, then why is Wendy being accused of being a traitor for being the one who informed me of that thread? How can that be considered as being traitorous? It implies a betrayal of sorts. That someone expected something from someone that was not realized but by honor, expected. To keep a secret, perhaps? Why should it have been kept secret?

Sorry, I just don't understand what is being presented here as reasons.

well we didnt want a load of people over there until it was done... everone once the new version was up had to regesister. it was about keeping it small to work out everything... ya if she was considered the narc or traitor it was because the public knew before it was ready.

 

[varnyard]

Robin, Do not take things out of context. This Quote was by me:

As for lack of class, thats funny, looking back on that screen shot of Kelli's old site. Yes, Kelli and Paul showed all kind of class on that one.

It was in reference to Sammy's comment of Rich showing a lack of class. So lets, do keep it in the proper context.

 

[varnyard]

it was for a select few to try it out to work out any kinks ... it's not like it was hiden just a few peole were invited to help test it and work out the kinks ... until all the kinks got worked out and it was announced to the public in it's complete version.

And in your opinion that is what was going on? All that was posted that I seen was back biting. Thats a fine way to try out a new site. Tests and kinks indeed.

 

[robin d.]

Robin, Do not take things out of context. This Quote was by me:
It was in reference to Sammy's comment of Rich showing a lack of class. So lets, do keep it in the proper context.

"yes, kelli and paul showed all kind of class on that one" you said it, it may have been in reference or pretaining to sammy's posr bur none the les those are your words and feels and trying to stir the pot....have toi had fun kicking all these people down? i hope so

 

[robin d.]

And in your opinion that is what was going on? All that was posted that I seen was back biting. Thats a fine way to try out a new site. Tests and kinks indeed.

apparantly you didnt view thwe entire site.......... most posts were suggetions and how do i and can we add and what about this ect. i can send you a link to the archived site if you really want to look and we can count negative posts posted before the poo hit the fan. how about that?

 

[varnyard]

"yes, kelli and paul showed all kind of class on that one" you said it, it may have been in reference or pretaining to sammy's posr bur none the les those are your words and feels and trying to stir the pot....have toi had fun kicking all these people down? i hope so

I am trying to understand you but I can not make out what is said in this one.

It was my comment back to Sammy that you quoted, not Rich's.

I am not trying to stir the pot, but I will not hide the facts either. So let this thread die and it will be the end of this. If not than we can continue to run in circles.

 

[robin d.]

i know it was not rich;s quote i was trying to show how the bashing and post had been and at that still being stired and how people were still bashing

 

[varnyard]

Well like I said let this thread die and it will be the end of this.

 

[WebSlave]

well we didnt want a load of people over there until it was done... everone once the new version was up had to regesister. it was about keeping it small to work out everything... ya if she was considered the narc or traitor it was because the public knew before it was ready.

"traitor"? For simply letting someone else know about the test site? And no, I don't believe there is any "if" about that at all.

traitor: One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.

That's a pretty sharp rebuke for someone who merely allowed someone else outside of those "select few" to view the forum don't you think?

Actually I have set up a few new sites myself, and when I needed testing to be done, the general rule is that the more testers the better. Always the chance that someone might find a glitch that escaped everyone else. And to be quite honest about it, vBulletin has been around for a very long time. The chances of you finding a "glitch" in that software is about as close to "nill" as you can get. There are bugs, to be certain, but of such a type that unless you are doing mod enhancements and touching the actually code that runs the message board, you will never see them.

But in any case, no, I can't see where if I had set up a site and invited some people to test it that someone who may have extended the invitation to someone outside of my selected group I would be inclined to treat them as a "traitor". In reality, for a new site, you really WANT people to now about it. Unless you feel there is something to hide, of course. People pay big money to try to get traffic to their sites. Calling someone a "traitor" for helping out in that department is not particularly reasonable.

Hate to say it, but that whole explanation is real weak. I do hate to use the "L" word, but heck, if it smells like a chicken, looks like a chicken, and tastes like a chicken, then it probably IS a chicken.

And most certainly.........

Quite honestly I would go ahead and just close this thread because I think all of the cards are out on the table for everyone to see. All we have now is a case of some people trying to call a "spade" a "diamond" and hoping some people won't notice. But as certain as the sun will rise tomorrow, if I did close it, half would applaud the move and the other half would cry FOUL and want to burn my shorts over it....

 

[bcfos]

Quite honestly I would go ahead and just close this thread because I think all of the cards are out on the table for everyone to see. All we have now is a case of some people trying to call a "spade" a "diamond" and hoping some people won't notice. But as certain as the sun will rise tomorrow, if I did close it, half would applaud the move and the other half would cry FOUL and want to burn my shorts over it....

For the love of god, country, firearms that make a huge hole, and all my hero's at the 3rd Expeditionary Force close it and lets move on....

 

[Ken Harbart]

Well, this one has certainly progressed further downhill in a short time...

As an outsider looking in nowadays, I can definitely see that the fate of herpetoculture is in a downward spiral. There was once an esprit de corps within the hobby. Now, real issues facing you all are left by the wayside so you can gossip about each other like 11 year old girls. Not only is the infighting getting tiresome, guys and gals- it's detrimental to herpetoculture as a whole.

Certain individuals on both sides of this issue are concentrating on being on the offensive rather than the defensive. In battle, that's a sound plan, but we come back to the sticking point of this not being a battle- it's just words posted in a forum, and nothing more. It would be delusional to think that one could be victorious in something such as this. There comes a point in time when the sensible thing to do is try to meet somewhere in the middle.

What I find to be reprehensible is that Kelli's emotions have been manipulated by various individuals throughout this. These are individuals have counted themselves as being amongst her friends. I'm not going to delve into this much further, as it opens wounds that should have been allowed to start healing long ago. Wounds don't heal when you constantly pick at the scab. I bear Kelli no ill and have no less respect for her than I did before. That's a statement that should be taken no other way than sincerely, for I've always had a tremendous amount of respect for her.

Now, there's been something posted in this thread that folks have taken one way, and it was allegedly meant in an entirely different context. I tend towards it being an honest mistake, but also very poor judgement. Tone and intent are things that are very difficult to convey via the written word. It gets especially complicated when replies are typed and posted in the heat of the moment. In situations like this, one of the best things a person can do is take their time, think through what they want to say, and probably even step away from their keyboard for a shirt while before they hit that nifty little "submit reply" button. Coming back to what you typed gives you a chance to read it with fresh perspective after you've calmed down and ask yourself "is this really the message that I want to convey," and "is there any chance this can be easily taken to mean something other than what I intended?"

Finally, I'd like to take a moment to respond to Robin... Robin, despite the tone of my last reply, I likewise bear you no ill will and do sincerely hope that you can prove me wrong, although the recent string of posts told a different story. Your behavior has personified one of the problems facing herpetoculture as of late- which is the maliciousness. While I'll also say you've been antagonized to an extent, you have also done more than your fair share of antagonizing. Ro said that you can be taught new tricks, and I hope that's true. For your own sake and that of those around you, it's time for a paradigm shift- try to let go of some of those grudges you're holding onto so dearly. Trust me, it will do wonders- not only will you feel less stress in your life, but you'll also reap the health benefits that come along with a more laid back attitude. Oh, and one other thing... congrats on regaining some of your vision. I hope you continue to make progress, and I sincerely mean that.

 

[critical bill]

I have two children, 3 & 4 years old. I looked out on my empty backyard this spring and thought...wow...wouldnt it be really nice if they had a huge swing set with a fort, and a slide, and a rock climbing wall. It would definitely free up some time for me, giving them something entertaining to do.

I lost my thumbnail to a hammer hit, cut my knuckles, got a wicked sunburn on my balding head, swallowed a bug that landed in my soda, and I screwed my favorite shirt between two pieces of wood on the fort. It was quite a project, but I was thinking all the while just how happy they would be with my vision of what I thought could keep them happy and entertained.

They began fighting not 5 minutes after it was all completed. 12 hours of building, 5 minutes of peace.

Give the webslave a break.