Yeah. Right. Innocent again, eh?
Here is a screen shot of when "Glenn" registered here:
June 4, 2006
So "he" has been a lurker for a "long time" and just coincidentally when Marcia got involved in starting that thread over on Kelli's site, decides to register HERE. Obviously Marcia does not talk to her "husband" and he did not know about the controversy going on, I guess.
Then on June 15th, again oblivious to what has been going on, just out of the clear blue sky posts his observation in that "lurker" thread. And then, just as coincidentally, word of this post gets to Marcia (who, of course has not only been oblivious to her "husband's" post as he is oblivious to the controversy she has kicked up with her "human failings") and friends and within minutes they ALL coincidentally decide to post the positive karma points.
Yep, I believe it. Looks like the halos are all still intact above your heads.
But tell me, when are you all going to just grow up? I don't go to Kelli's site to try to inflict damage there so what the hell are you coming here for? Rhetorical question, I know.
Now, let's clear the air a bit about the roots of this entire conflict.
And as for Kelli, this whole situation revolved around Chris Johnson and his actions which I took exception to. And obviously some of her "friends" have chosen to make a religious crusade out of it. Here is the original email I sent to Kelli after Chris took a private message from me to try to get him to tone down what appeared to me and others as a campaign on HIS part for his own reasons:
----- Original Message -----
From: fauna
To: Steve and Kelli Hammack
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 12:52 PM
Subject: The developing war...
Kelli,
I just read the post you made on FC, and I am sick to death that you got involved with this. I am sure you got a copy of that PM I sent Chris, and there really is only one original source from which you could have gotten it, because I certainly did not spread it around. Chris is using this as a declaration of war, apparently, and drumming up his troops with it. It is most unfortunate that it is being taken the way that it is by some people. So I guess some clarification is in order, although I seriously wish that I were not adding more of a burden on you by even contacting you at all about it. This SHOULD have remained between Chris and I, exclusively. But apparently Chris thought otherwise.
First off, everyone knows how aggressive Chris is, and 100 percent business oriented on top of that. No one would like to think that anyone would take your unfortunate situation and turn it into an advantage for themselves. I believe that would be sickening beyond belief. When I saw Chris going into an apparent advertising campaign to drive people to his new forum site for the Hammack auctions, it raised questions in my mind. There was the banner ad, then the text line ads, then posting on the Leopard Gecko Discussion forum itself. I'm not sure exactly when it was that questions began forming, but they did, nonetheless. Questions such as why hold the auctions on an obscure message board on Chris's own site and try to draw people to it from a site with much more traffic, when setting up the auctions on FaunaClassifieds itself would have been the more practical way of handling it. When Lucille asked me if it would be OK to convert the Fauna Fund to the Hammack Fund, it was done instantly and already in a highly visible area of the site. I am not sure of the exact timing, but I believe it took place pretty much concurrently with the auctions on Chris's site. What purpose is served by advertising an auction on a much less traveled site yet have to draw people there from another site and force the new visitors to register in order to participate there? For such an effort, what would have been the most logical, most effective, and easiest way to handle it? So why was it done the hard way? What was to be gained by doing it that way? WHO was to gain by doing it that way? Personally I had nothing to gain at all by the auctions being held on FaunaClassifieds. The traffic was already there, and the auctions were going to be drawing from that already existing traffic, which was substantial. There was already a huge following in the Leopard Gecko Discussion forum that such an auction would draw from, and it would have been a simple matter to have those already registered members participating in an auction already on site. So I do ask you, what was to be gained, and by whom, to do it the hard way? Those are the kinds of questions that were being raised, and quite frankly I didn't have any good answers, only uncomfortable ones. Chris told me that the auction plan had been discussed among several people when the news hit. Not ONE of them came to me to ask me about setting up the auctions on FC. Not one. Now why is that? They chose, instead, to do it the hard way. Why?
Beyond what I have seen of Chris on FaunaClassifieds, I do not know him personally, but what I HAVE seen has not always been in the best of light. Heck, but I thought maybe I was just being overly sensitive to it, based on the emotions of the moment, and overlooked my feelings in the matter. Everyone was going a little bit insane with emotions, it seems. I normally don't like to think the worst of anyone, but I have developed a suspicion of anyone's motives just because of what I have seen take place on FC over the years. Yes, I do wish that self interest were not such an overwhelmingly driving force for many people, but it IS there, nonetheless. I really don't want to think the worst about Chris, but I am not naive and blind, and oftentimes do have to take things at face value based on appearances. But even so, even with suspicions, there are times when it is best to just leave it be, rather then make an issue out of it. But honestly, can you believe that some people would use ANYTHING they could in a competitive advantage? Yes, I most certainly think that some would. Is Chris one of those people who would do something like that? I certainly hope the hell not, but only someone who REALLY knows him much better then I do personally can answer that one.
When I received the PM that is quoted in my own to Chris, I felt that perhaps I am not just being overly sensitive and seeing boogie men under my bed, as other people are seeing something potentially unpleasant as well. Whether it is the truth or not is irrelevant, because many people will judge by appearances regardless of it. My PM to Chris was to inform him of this appearance he was making to the public on FaunaClassifieds. I had nothing at all to gain by contacting him about it, and certainly, knowing Chris, I knew I was possibly subjecting myself to some flames. But it needed to be done if other people are seeing it too. To say that he took it calmly would be a bald faced lie. I don't wish to quote his private messages to me, but I will say they were rather extreme, to say the least. He obviously chose to forward that PM to other people, and I have to ask for what purpose? What would be the hoped for outcome of doing something like that. What sort of possible result could come of it that wouldn't also appear to be self serving? Even though I explicitly told Chris that Lucille was NOT behind those words I forwarded to him in that PM, he went into attack mode, regardless, and obviously approached people whom he knew already had issues with Lucille in order to whip them up into a frenzy against her. But she was an easy target for him, apparently, even though he was jumping to entirely the wrong conclusions. I don't know, maybe this is the root of the issue. Maybe those people discussing setting up the auctions did not want them on FaunaClassifieds because they knew Lucille would be involved in it? Perhaps that is it, but I am just thinking out loud trying to come up with logical reasons for the actions I see.
So, in a nutshell, what happened here? Did Chris just make a mistake in judgement concerning the appearance he was giving and just will not admit that I may have been right? Appearances don't have to be based on right or wrong, they are just there. I would certainly hope that the appearance it gave to me and others is wrong, but the appearance was there nonetheless. Is Chris's flying off the handle and now engaging in this war just a result of the emotions involved in your situation or is it something else even uglier then the original appearance problem? I really don't know. All I can know is my own thoughts. I know I had nothing at all to gain either way in the auctions and where or how they were run. I know I would have nothing to gain by engaging Chris and friends in a war. I have always found it helpful in determining someone's motives by trying to determine where the self interest lies. It is not infallible, of course, but it does provide a road map more often then not.
Chris and I were working things out privately when this crap just got stirred up all over again. So maybe someone else has something in mind and was not satisfied that the drama was beginning to wind down over it. The world is just filled with some odd personalities, and many people are not as they appear. Beware the crocodile smiles from your "friends".
Those are the facts and opinions as I see them, Kelli, so you can take them as you see fit.
I am EXTREMELY sorry that someone decided to drag you into this, Kelli, and I wish it were otherwise. But apparently some people just revel in slinging crap and really don't give a damn about who gets splattered by it. as long as they can get their jollies from watching other people's disgust.
BTW, just in case that original PM got altered along the way, here's a copy of the original that I sent to Chris:
=======================
Chris,
I just want you to be aware of an appearance you are making that you may not be aware of, but other people are taking note of. This aspect was not lost to me either, but I wasn't sure how much other people would take exception to it. Rather then go further into details, I figure one of the emails I have gotten would be best to enlighten you so you can think this over:
Quote:
I know this is a little stupid of me but I am a little upset that I went to webslave to ask for the auctions to be posted on Fauna and he said it was OK, in the mean time Chris J is taking a lot of this over to his forum.
I feel that fauna is a larger community and the auctions should stay on fauna and it seems to me that he is hijacking this tragic situation to up his forum in standings.
I feel so much for Kelli and her family and have slept with my kids by my side since this happened and cried everynight for her and her son.
I just do not like when people run with things like this to make a positive outcome for themselves.
I know there is nothing that either of us can say about this but I needed to vent my feelings about this to someone.
And you may PM me back and tell me I am stupid, if you do thats fine.
BTW, this email was NOT sent to me, but was addressed to someone else who then forwarded it to me. The response from the original recipient is as follows:
Quote:
If there is one thing I can give you out of this, is that you ALWAYS have every right to your feelings. Always. And, from the very beginning I never thought you were stupid even for a moment. I enjoy your presence on our board a great deal and I appreciate your request for auctions for the Hammacks.
In this particular case, I think you have great clarity of perspective.
In short, some people think it is rather tacky that you are using this incident as a means to try to draw people from this site over to yours. That may not really be your intention, but that is the APPEARANCE it is giving.
Take care.
==============================
And I do need to interject this comment here about the timing of this whole incident. When Hayden was killed, I didn't know a thing about it until I was trying to catch up on my stack of several hundred emails from getting back from one of the rare mini vacations my wife and I take. I had been away for 4 days of so, just rolled in the door and find all this going on. Anyone who works with live animals, especially right at the onset of egg hatching knows what it is like, and quite honestly, although it was certainly a tragic event that I was told about, quite honestly, I just could not devote all, or even a large portion, of my attention towards it. So there were PMs and emails flying every which way while I am just trying to get everything back together here from being away and preparing for hatching season. So no, I really don't know the exact sequence of events that took place, or at least don't remember them because I had necessary things in my own life that needed attending to. This is just a fyi that needs to be made to put some things into perspective.
Yeah at the time, I certainly did have my doubts that maybe I was just reading Chris wrong. Yes he was, in my opinion, extremely aggressive, abusive to others, and 100 percent gung ho in promoting his business and new website. And he did purchase a LOT of advertising on my site in that pursuit, so there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he was keenly intent on promoting his business in any way possible.
So what this all boils down to is that you (Kelli) are all saying that there just is no way possible that Chris was not doing this with even a moderate amount of his own best interests at heart. It was COMPLETELY and 100 percent unselfish and absolutely altruistic in every sense of the word. To which I say "bullsnot". Especially after events recently have unfolded about Chris, which I seriously doubt ANY of you cannot be cognizant of, for you to still adhere to that position is absolutely nonsensical. From all appearances, based on the information presented on that thread in the BOI about Chris Johnson, he has scammed MANY people with absolutely no regard whatsoever for their feelings nor concern over their hardships. And here you are claiming "Oh no! Chris would NEVER have done that sort of thing when it comes to Kelli!" Again, bullsnot. In my opinion, he saw a golden opportunity to take advantage of a situation and use it as a springboard to drive traffic to his own fledgling message board site. Anyone who thinks he was not smart enough or quick enough on the upswing to recognize that opportunity when it presented itself is either being extremely naive or just plain flat out lying to themselves.
So really what it all boils down to is that the hatred and ill will that is being projected towards me, this site, Lucille, and others ALL stems from this one incident where Kelli, Marcia, Robin, and others are quite frankly choosing sides in to believe Chris Johnson over this side of the equation. And regardless of what recent past events have shown in black and white and irrefutable proof, YOU all still chose to cling to your now dark hearted and baseless beliefs. Why? Because it just feels good?
Kelli, I was NOT responsible for the death of your child. I had nothing at all to do with that. I know you need someone to hate and rail against because of the cards fate dealt to you, but I am NOT that one. I never did anything to harm you. Who was the one who brought this to you? Maybe some day you will be able to pull out of this destructive unreasoning hatred you have in your heart, but with your "friends" with their own hatred filled hearts standing by your side whispering their own hatred filled thoughts in your ears, I seriously doubt you are strong enough to break out of what you are trapped in.
You created your own website in anger. You did so because of hatred in your heart because of your own perceived wrongs inflicted upon you by me and this site. Your intentions were to try to harm me and this site with your actions. You were and apparently are not doing this with any real good intentions whatsoever. You just wanted to hurt ME because of this forced ignorance of the truth of the situation that has become a home for your mind. You allowed that thread that Marcia created on your site to go on with your rooting for the derogatory trash being spouted there and putting your own hate laced two cents in as well.
I cannot change the way you think or feel. All I can do is to present the facts and you can either deal with it or not. I believe you have fixated on the good that did come from the auctions held by Chris and because of that good, have chosen to completely ignore the fact that he had his own self interested stake in it too and USED you for his own purposes. I chose to call him down on it, even recognizing the tiger I was grabbing by the tail. And because of my recognizing that purpose and his then making it a PUBLIC issue, again to further his own purposes, you have chosen to make me the bad guy for it.
So over THIS you have decided to just fill your heart with hatred and refuse to let go of it even when the facts are just staring you in the face.
Very well then, Kelli. You just go ahead and believe whatever the hell it is you want to believe for your own personal reasons. And take your "friends" with you as well.
