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kenneth Yates of South Carolina
- Thread starter oreganus
- Start date
yes....
there was only one green that didn't have rigormortis when it was unpacked. That made me wonder exactly how long they had been dead. It lead us to wonder exactly when they died. the black and two of the greens were extremely stiff.
Kevin Smith
there was only one green that didn't have rigormortis when it was unpacked. That made me wonder exactly how long they had been dead. It lead us to wonder exactly when they died. the black and two of the greens were extremely stiff.
Kevin Smith
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
Makes you wonder...
How much time elapsed between when Mardi bagged the snakes and when Ken delivered them to the airport? Did Mardi say WHEN he bagged them? Was it the same day they were shipped?
How much time elapsed between when Mardi bagged the snakes and when Ken delivered them to the airport? Did Mardi say WHEN he bagged them? Was it the same day they were shipped?
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
Can I ask where Ken said this? Maybe I missed it, but I think I only saw that in Kevin's post, attributing the statement to Ken.
bud mierkey
New member
info about kevin
like i said oregeno sorry for your loss ha ha
in my opinion kevin is one of the infaMOUS garage venomoiders
peta has been after these two and it would not suprise me if a lot of the snakes shipped to them turn up dead
The guy in the pic is dick ritchey the garage butcher .
They are the scourage of the venomoid craze.
they need to be shut down.
the dead snakes are lucky that they did not have to be mutilated.
only deal with a real vet!
and they are nothing but hacks.
I am suprised they are allowed to post here!
being animal butchers and all ?
like i said oregeno sorry for your loss ha ha
in my opinion kevin is one of the infaMOUS garage venomoiders
peta has been after these two and it would not suprise me if a lot of the snakes shipped to them turn up dead
The guy in the pic is dick ritchey the garage butcher .
They are the scourage of the venomoid craze.
they need to be shut down.
the dead snakes are lucky that they did not have to be mutilated.
only deal with a real vet!
and they are nothing but hacks.
I am suprised they are allowed to post here!
being animal butchers and all ?
Ken Harbart
New member
Re: info about kevin
Your personal views on the ethics of venomoids have no relevance whatsoever to the issue at hand in this thread. If you'd like to espouse your opnion of venomoids or those who sell them, feel free to start a new thread pertaining to that subject in one of the discussion forums, such as "Sound Off" or "General Business Discussions."
I'd like to thank you for your future cooperation in no longer attempting to hijack this thread and turning into your own personal soapbox for an off-topic issue.
Regards,
Ken Harbart
Mr Mierkey,bud mierkey said:like i said oregeno sorry for your loss ha ha
in my opinion kevin is one of the infaMOUS garage venomoiders
peta has been after these two and it would not suprise me if a lot of the snakes shipped to them turn up dead
The guy in the pic is dick ritchey the garage butcher .
They are the scourage of the venomoid craze.
they need to be shut down.
the dead snakes are lucky that they did not have to be mutilated.
only deal with a real vet!
and they are nothing but hacks.
I am suprised they are allowed to post here!
being animal butchers and all ?
Your personal views on the ethics of venomoids have no relevance whatsoever to the issue at hand in this thread. If you'd like to espouse your opnion of venomoids or those who sell them, feel free to start a new thread pertaining to that subject in one of the discussion forums, such as "Sound Off" or "General Business Discussions."
I'd like to thank you for your future cooperation in no longer attempting to hijack this thread and turning into your own personal soapbox for an off-topic issue.
Regards,
Ken Harbart
herpetological
New member
Not saying it's a fact but,....is it possible that the snakes in question were already dead when shipped and maybe the specimens shipped are not the same animals that were packed by Mardi???? Seems that since other items were missing or changed out that there is always that possibility. Did this policy of no live arrival guarantee come up at the last minute so to speak? Just a side note.... it does happen. I know a dealer that back in the 80's had many shipments he sent out that were claimed as mishandled by Delta. He would pack frozen snakes and ship them to the customers. They would come in cold and it would appear that they were mishandled and chilled during shipping. He would credit the customer and place a claim with Delta. Delta would then cut him a check for the loss. It was always during the Fall/Winter. The only problem is that after two years he was finally caught.....It just happened that on one of those shipments it was unseasonably warm... He packed them too well..They came in still frozen with a warm heatpack!! Not saying this is the case just pointing out some other scams that have happened before.
Ken Harbart,
I do now believe that the venomoid issue DOES command attention and quite relevant to this thread at hand.
Thank you Mr Mierky for pointing this out as I and possibly many others were under the impression that is Oreganus in the photo.
From Oreganus
From a recent thread, very similar and nearly parallel with this one, we all learned that Oreganus and his 'Voider' do not have the means to properly administer the correct dosage of anesthetics, to any of the animals.
We now know that the 'Voider' is present for the picture, being in the first picture posted.
We also see from Oreganus, that the black mamba and two of the greens were affected by rigormortis.
Quoted above - "the black and two of the greens were extremely stiff"
Now hold on to your seats people...
The snakes are alive in the pic.
If the black and two greens were 'rigored' and in the event of the temps in transit, the rigor would have made it impossible for the snakes, ALL of the snakes pictured, to be straightened out and limber for the pics.
With the prescence of the 'Voider', actually holding the snakes in the picture, the medicine for anesthsia had a very good chance at being present AND having had been administered PRIOR to this picture. Anesthesia will also explain the growth of the snake as it (black mamba) is nearly completely relaxed and free-hanging like this, will allow the maximum length of the snake to be reached.
Look back on page one of this thread, at the picture of the 'Voider' holding the snakes.
Notice his hands, or rather his fingers, holding onto the snakes delicately in order to sense movement and to quickly drop or toss the snakes in the event the anesthetics wore off too soon or did not have the desired effects.
Look closely at just where the eyes of the 'Voider' are locked, with severe concentration and interest.
They are on the head of the black mamba.
It moved.
Look at the position of the 'Voiders' mouth.
It is pursed tightly, in the manner of someone trying hard to not wet their pants.
He is scared.
The anesthetics were underdosed for the snakes.(we know they do not know how to properly administer meds..)
The black mamba and the green mamba on the upper left of the pile of greens, were awakening from the effects of the anesthetics and the black mamba very much got the attention of the person holding the animals.
Unfortunately for Oreganus, it was all captured in the photograph.
I now feel that the scam against KY was planned in advance, by taking the picture shortly after the animals had been anesthetized in preperation for the surgery.
I now feel that KY owes Oreganus NOTHING for any of the snakes, period.
However, this does not forgive KY of the shoddy packing job and I still feel that KY owes a small percentage of the shipping fee.
I do now believe that the venomoid issue DOES command attention and quite relevant to this thread at hand.
Thank you Mr Mierky for pointing this out as I and possibly many others were under the impression that is Oreganus in the photo.
From Oreganus
From a recent thread, very similar and nearly parallel with this one, we all learned that Oreganus and his 'Voider' do not have the means to properly administer the correct dosage of anesthetics, to any of the animals.
We now know that the 'Voider' is present for the picture, being in the first picture posted.
We also see from Oreganus, that the black mamba and two of the greens were affected by rigormortis.
Quoted above - "the black and two of the greens were extremely stiff"
Now hold on to your seats people...
The snakes are alive in the pic.
If the black and two greens were 'rigored' and in the event of the temps in transit, the rigor would have made it impossible for the snakes, ALL of the snakes pictured, to be straightened out and limber for the pics.
With the prescence of the 'Voider', actually holding the snakes in the picture, the medicine for anesthsia had a very good chance at being present AND having had been administered PRIOR to this picture. Anesthesia will also explain the growth of the snake as it (black mamba) is nearly completely relaxed and free-hanging like this, will allow the maximum length of the snake to be reached.
Look back on page one of this thread, at the picture of the 'Voider' holding the snakes.
Notice his hands, or rather his fingers, holding onto the snakes delicately in order to sense movement and to quickly drop or toss the snakes in the event the anesthetics wore off too soon or did not have the desired effects.
Look closely at just where the eyes of the 'Voider' are locked, with severe concentration and interest.
They are on the head of the black mamba.
It moved.
Look at the position of the 'Voiders' mouth.
It is pursed tightly, in the manner of someone trying hard to not wet their pants.
He is scared.
The anesthetics were underdosed for the snakes.(we know they do not know how to properly administer meds..)
The black mamba and the green mamba on the upper left of the pile of greens, were awakening from the effects of the anesthetics and the black mamba very much got the attention of the person holding the animals.
Unfortunately for Oreganus, it was all captured in the photograph.
I now feel that the scam against KY was planned in advance, by taking the picture shortly after the animals had been anesthetized in preperation for the surgery.
I now feel that KY owes Oreganus NOTHING for any of the snakes, period.
However, this does not forgive KY of the shoddy packing job and I still feel that KY owes a small percentage of the shipping fee.
Darin Chappell
Senior Hillbilly Member
- Joined
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- Rogersville, MO (Ozark Mts.)
I have to say, the man in the pictures looks as though he is delicately holding the venomous animals they are, rather than simply holding up several corpses for a picture. Why hold them so far out from his body and in his fingertips? Why not hold them in the firm grip of certainty, knowing that they are quite dead?
They may be dead as door nails in that picture, but after looking at it again, It seems odd to me that the handler is so obviously attentive to a handful of rigor-stricken dead mambas. Who knows???
They may be dead as door nails in that picture, but after looking at it again, It seems odd to me that the handler is so obviously attentive to a handful of rigor-stricken dead mambas. Who knows???
Stardust
human
I just looked at the pic again also, and I think you are reaching a bit.
What is he supposed to do? Hug the snakes to him? If I were holding up dead snakes I think I would be holding like that, not to mention holding them up high so it all shows well in the pic.
JMO
What is he supposed to do? Hug the snakes to him? If I were holding up dead snakes I think I would be holding like that, not to mention holding them up high so it all shows well in the pic.
JMO
JungleHabitats
New member
hmmmm
is elvis alive? who shot JR? was it a plot on kennedy? OJ didnt do it ? Bill Loves Hillary? Is Osama in crawford Texas? do old people really need that much fiber ?
Hell i hold dead rats like that
I also think maybe its a stretch ... but its like UFO's if you think its true long enough you to will have been taking onto a ship and probed ..... this thread should totally be locked down before long this thread will be doing cryogenics and it will work ... walt disney will be walking around .... the guy on tv really does talk to dead people , Binny Hin really does heal all thos people by slapping them in the forehaed ....
man o man where will it end ...
is elvis alive? who shot JR? was it a plot on kennedy? OJ didnt do it ? Bill Loves Hillary? Is Osama in crawford Texas? do old people really need that much fiber ?
Hell i hold dead rats like that
I also think maybe its a stretch ... but its like UFO's if you think its true long enough you to will have been taking onto a ship and probed ..... this thread should totally be locked down before long this thread will be doing cryogenics and it will work ... walt disney will be walking around .... the guy on tv really does talk to dead people , Binny Hin really does heal all thos people by slapping them in the forehaed ....
man o man where will it end ...
Stardust
human
I do not see the lips pursed together, in fact they are slightly apart. and the red on the face? Come on, I see people like that all the time, and they are not holding snakes.
Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetching the imagination arent we?
LOL Alan.
Streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetching the imagination arent we?
LOL Alan.
??
I am not sure that him holding like that them could mean anything, maybe he is red from stress of unpacking hots, has to go to the bathroom, pissed that the snakes are dead. Looks to me like a stretch to go that far in analogy of a pic.
My question is more basic if they had rigor setting in from being shipped in a bag how did he get them to hang limp to take the pic.
I am not sure that him holding like that them could mean anything, maybe he is red from stress of unpacking hots, has to go to the bathroom, pissed that the snakes are dead. Looks to me like a stretch to go that far in analogy of a pic.
My question is more basic if they had rigor setting in from being shipped in a bag how did he get them to hang limp to take the pic.
JungleHabitats
New member
well
if the rigo had not been several hours old i think it could be possible to physically straighten them and that by doing so loosen them up
i have had rats sit that were killed and not eating after a few hrs they would be stiffed up .. i could flex them to loosen them up to dangle them for the snake to strike ( and yes dangle as in the backbone would be flexible enough to wiggle)
if the rigo had not been several hours old i think it could be possible to physically straighten them and that by doing so loosen them up
i have had rats sit that were killed and not eating after a few hrs they would be stiffed up .. i could flex them to loosen them up to dangle them for the snake to strike ( and yes dangle as in the backbone would be flexible enough to wiggle)
kingmike
New member
It would take an awful lot of flexing to get a extremely stiff snake to hang perfectly limp. Not makeing any accussations.
Wilomn
New member
I think it's a bit of a reach as well to assume that the snakes were merely knocked out.
It would seem logical to me to hold them very carefully if they weren't dead for sure. Were one to snap out of it all of a sudden you'd be dead. Whether or not these guys do their anystitising(?) properly is somewhat in question here but if I wasn't sure I had a snake as hot as a mamba knocked out right I would not hold it like that for a picture. Perhaps I am the wrong standard though as we all know I would NEVER do anything foolhardy or rash.
If the black were not dead would it be bent the way it is? A live black mamba that close to me would have my hands open and my feet in the air as I propelled myself backwards out of strikng range. Since these guys have apparently performed these surgeries before it is a logical assumption that they do know dead from live snakes or they themselves would not be here.
Way back in "The Day" I did a movie rental for a friend. He had the ancient herper Al Robbins cut the duct of the mamba we used so that there was no possibility of venom getting to the fangs. That was one of the quickest snakes I have EVER handled. While I was not present for the mamba surgery I was present for several other cobra and rattlesnake surgeries that this guy had Al do. He used ether and sometimes the snakes came out quick and unexpectedly and sometimes they stayed nice and quiet for a long time. I don't think anyone who knows of Al could question his professionalism or knowledge. He never took chances that I saw when he was doing surgeries. Holding those snakes like that, were they merely unconscious, is sort of like spitting in Death's eye. I still figure they're dead. I don't blame any of you who suspect other wise but, I can not get on board with this one.
Wes Pollock
It would seem logical to me to hold them very carefully if they weren't dead for sure. Were one to snap out of it all of a sudden you'd be dead. Whether or not these guys do their anystitising(?) properly is somewhat in question here but if I wasn't sure I had a snake as hot as a mamba knocked out right I would not hold it like that for a picture. Perhaps I am the wrong standard though as we all know I would NEVER do anything foolhardy or rash.
If the black were not dead would it be bent the way it is? A live black mamba that close to me would have my hands open and my feet in the air as I propelled myself backwards out of strikng range. Since these guys have apparently performed these surgeries before it is a logical assumption that they do know dead from live snakes or they themselves would not be here.
Way back in "The Day" I did a movie rental for a friend. He had the ancient herper Al Robbins cut the duct of the mamba we used so that there was no possibility of venom getting to the fangs. That was one of the quickest snakes I have EVER handled. While I was not present for the mamba surgery I was present for several other cobra and rattlesnake surgeries that this guy had Al do. He used ether and sometimes the snakes came out quick and unexpectedly and sometimes they stayed nice and quiet for a long time. I don't think anyone who knows of Al could question his professionalism or knowledge. He never took chances that I saw when he was doing surgeries. Holding those snakes like that, were they merely unconscious, is sort of like spitting in Death's eye. I still figure they're dead. I don't blame any of you who suspect other wise but, I can not get on board with this one.
Wes Pollock
ElapsMan
New member
HMMMM
I don't know about all that, but I DO KNOW that when a snake is in rigor mortis (and as Kevin himself stated "VERY STIFF") the snake would have been in the same position it was in while in the bag when rigor mortis set in. The snake in the pic should be all balled up and stiff, IF kevin's account is right. Lets see how this is explained (if it is)
I don't know about all that, but I DO KNOW that when a snake is in rigor mortis (and as Kevin himself stated "VERY STIFF") the snake would have been in the same position it was in while in the bag when rigor mortis set in. The snake in the pic should be all balled up and stiff, IF kevin's account is right. Lets see how this is explained (if it is)
kingmike
New member
Wes I agree with you that it doesnt seem very likely, but when you look at the pic you have to wonder which 2 greens are "extremely stiff" ? They are all hanging pretty loose. Something doesnt seem right there. And I cant help but wonder why it was only all the mamba's that died, and not any other snake. Maybe mamba's are "weaker" than all the rest? I dont know, seems odd. Also realize I am not a hot expert, maybe they are actually super weak compared to the rest.