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kenneth Yates of South Carolina

i could flex them to loosen them up to dangle them for the snake to strike ( and yes dangle as in the backbone would be flexible enough to wiggle)
Click to expand...

Great point.. BUT would you believe that ALL the dead snakes were worked over to make them all very limber for the pic?
With the exception of the black mamba and the one green mambas head and neck?

A great many photos here, of dead snakes, are taken with the snake(s) on their backs, with the same shape they were in when they died in transit.
Many insist on that type of picture to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the animals in question are dead.
Except for hognoses.. which do that while alive.. :)
 
Re: Ken

ElapsMan said:
"ElapsMan
i did not send you anything
this makes me real curious of your info and thank you for sharing this"


i did not say the e-mail was from you, in fact other than an e-mail address, I really do not know who it is from. But somebody must have access to your stuff to scan it and send it out. Anyway, is the information correct? Did you in fact receive the cash from someone in California in a fedex mailer envelope? Did the writing appear to be that of a 5 year old (poor handwriting)? If this is the case, it makes Kevin's story of him having sent you the money instead of Ken in CA untrue.
Click to expand...

the writing on both letters looked like a fifth grader wrote it
 
well all i know

Is my friggin boas are ALIVE and need there water bowls changed that they pushed that rat from last week into ...GGRRR gotta love it and i just changed there water ...
 
So Kevin..

Is that really Ritchie Rich in the picture? This collection was going to be kept hot? If the Black Mamba was "VERY STIFF" why was it not in the same position as it was found in the bag?

Still being open-minded, but awaiting your answers.
 
Hey Ken ...

From your typing skills you probably write like a 5th grader ??? so was it you who made that up ? i mean while were talking Conspiracy theories couldnt ken have made that label? by the information of the real lable ? lets all get our CLUE game handbook out . If were going to go old wild tangents this should also be put in the ballet box ... maybe we can find a hanging chad !!
 
Re: yes....

oreganus said:
there was only one green that didn't have rigormortis when it was unpacked. That made me wonder exactly how long they had been dead. It lead us to wonder exactly when they died. the black and two of the greens were extremely stiff.
Kevin Smith
Click to expand...
if rigamortus had set in how did you got them so lose and hang that way in pic 1 lol amazing tricj you can do
 
Rigor Mortis is intially a stiffening and then it goes away and the body becomes flexible again. Don't know if that's what happened here. But most guys that handle hots you don't hear too much about. Until they get bit and make the news.

I have heard that mambas are very temperature sensitive. My personal experiance is limited but I did do some research into them long ago and talked to a couple of people that kept them also long ago. From what I remember they do not take cooling well at all. The shoot we were doing with them was in the desert and we had to keep them warm at night.

I still don't know about these and most likely never will.

But let's ask a real important question here- First though let me say I do care about the snakes and it's a shame that they died. That having been said, what is the point in persuing this any further. We know kennyboy is a lying scumbag, that he shipped them after packing them terribly and I strongly suspect that he knows he should refund some of what Kevin paid but, most likely won't.

At this point I have a serious problem believing Kevin as well. Too much doubt about what happened, to many scenarios about what MAY have happened.

I would say stay away from the both of them. It's not about whether or not venimoid surgeries were or are performed by kevin. It's not about anyones opinions on whether or not he is qualified to do this or even if he should.

It's about the shipping job, which we KNOW was terrible, and whether or not kennyboy should/will refund as he should.

Unless someone is going to babysit Kevin for the rest of forever then I'm ready to let this one go. The snakes are dead no matter how they died. We can't know for certain how those deaths were achieved.

I say let sleeping dogs lie. heh heh heh

Wes Pollock
 
Ken

It's 'rigor mortis'. not rigamortus. Come on, those two words have been properly posted about 20 times. No offence, but if you would take your time and check your basic spelling and grammar, it would give everyone one less thing to taunt you over.
 
All I know is that Kevin said the snakes were very stiff and that he took the pictures immediately after unpacking the snakes. If they were stiff from rigor mortis, how did they get loose to hang like that? I suppose one might loosen an animal in full rigor by flexing its body, but to what end? Holding up a stiffened corpse in the shape of the bag in which it came would certainly be even more of an effective picture.

I have no idea, folks! I am not accusing anyone, and I am not going to go into the relative red coloration of the man's face in the picture. However, the pose does not look like the person is convinced they are harmless, in my opinion. Perhaps he is simply worried about possible post-mortim nervous action in the mambas???

Regardless, even if Kevin were found to have lied about the death of the snakes, that in NO WAY implies that Ken is not to be blamed for the shoddy packaging and shipping of those animals. IF they did not arrive dead, it is a small wonder that they didn't!
 
OR...

"However, the pose does not look like the person is convinced they are harmless, in my opinion."

If that is Ritchie Rich, maybe the snakes are already venomoids??? Or maybe they are from their collection of dead snakes from failed surgeries?

When I looked back at the pic, I took special note of the fact that NONE of the 3 boxes looked like they were ever opened (I know, I know, ... Kevin already stated that he took the time to re-screw them back together). But the other thing that I wondered, is what are the opened rubbermaids for?
 
rubbermaids

Maybe there going to put them dead snakes in them ?
i doubt those snakes fit in that small of a rubber maid ... unless its DEEP then that would be hardto go in a freezer full of dead snakes as everyone says
 
Jerry

Could it be atall possible that they openedthe Mambas first and that they had not gotten to the rest at thetime oftaken pics of those dead snakes ? the have obvioulsy opened some box for the 1/4 styro & toe warmers to be shown .
 
My guess is the rubbermaids were placed in the wooden boxes after the bagged snakes had been put in the rubbermaids. They looke deep enough to hold them and take a look at the inventory list. Some of those snakes would be fairly small.

Maybe it's time to let this one go.
 
There is a lot of what if, or, and possibilities going on in this thread now. We are even picking at a picture of how someone looks and is holding the snakes. To me if he were not sure, he would not be holding his hands up, which puts the snakes closer to his body then if he were holding his arms straight out.
And perhaps he held them up like that thinking that he should for proof.
Who knows?
What we do know is that ken packages incorrectly.
Possibly this thread should die out unless someone has something besides what ifs.
 
Also, I would have the rubbermaids ready for when my snakes arrived. I would not expect to open up crates with dead snakes in it.
 
OK Wes just told me I am agreeing with him too much and we wouldnt want to think that devil child is in the making.
So here goes: Yep ken is right all the way, he did no wrong, he packaged perfectly, as any responsible person would. He does not lie, he always tells the truth and of couse is very knowledgable in reptiles!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
"Could it be atall possible that they openedthe Mambas first and that they had not gotten to the rest at thetime oftaken pics of those dead snakes ? the have obvioulsy opened some box for the 1/4 styro & toe warmers to be shown ."

Alan,

That is a perfectly reasonable conclusion that one might draw as a possible explanation for all of this. Except ... did Kevin not tell us that he found the dead mambas, then hurridly unpacked all the rest of the snakes in hopes of saving some?!?!? Then, according to Kevin, he paused to take pictures.

That seems rational too, but it is completely incongruous with that picture, in my mind. I just don't see someone unpacking the snakes, then screwing the crates back together all nice and neat, and THEN taking pics of the dead mambas. Maybe that IS exactly the way it took place, but it just doesn't "ring true" to me.

:bandhead0 :shrug01:
 
sorry, I have been out most of the night...

I guess I should respond quickly before Elvis comes back on a space ship and regenerates life force in the dead mambas and then impersonates the person in the pick and proves me to be lying about the mambas being dead, LOL. It is amazing how much time and imagination has went into some of these posts. That said, let me try and sort this out to put minds at ease. First, all of the snakes were unpacked and the ones that were alive were put in a warm room to help them recover. I had rubbermaids ready before I opened any of the boxes. The first box we opened had the majority of the mambas in it. What I meant by really stiff, was that they were stiff starting at about 6-7inches up to the head. The dead animals were inspected for heart beats and then place in the first box opened until we were done unpacking all the snakes. Since the house was warm, they loosened up by the time everything was straighened up and put away and we were able to take the picture. The black was the stiffest one and it did not seem to loosen up that much, maybe this was due to it being larger than the greens, thus it would take more time for it to warm up. the back half of the snakes were limp and not that stiffened, it was mostly around the heads and a few inches down the neck. These snakes were full inspected and were truly dead, although a couple had faint heart beats, but even after trying to warm them and giving them air, they did not pull out. They were all put in rubbermaids seperately and left in the warm room over night incase of a miracle that might occur. Up to this point only 2 out of the 7 greens have survived. The fifth green died later on. most of the snakes appeared somewhat dehydrated and even Mardi told Kenneth that. Kenneth obviously had no regard to the wellfare of the snakes and there is no assumptions or hypotheticals that can take away from that fact. If there are any other questions feel free to ask.
Thanks,
Kevin Smith
 
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