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kenneth Yates of South Carolina

I agree with Neil that the responsibility falls on the shipper more so in this case then the carrier. As far as the climate controlled area goes every airport air cargo area is different. When I worked for Delta in Hartford and Providence years ago while in college there was no specific are to keep the animals in extreme weather conditions other then the office area. Most animals would be brought into this area. There were many times though when they would be left in the heat or cold because the staff working at the time was petrified of the snakes getting out. Hopefully Delta has implemented a policy for proper storage at every location since I left.
 
Was Delta even aware there were live venomous snakes in the box? Was the package adequately labeled (with regards to species, etc.)? What kind of a box was used for shipment? As far as I understand venomous snakes have to be shipped in a wood and not a cardboard box. What I'm now wandering is if Delta even knew there were live animals in that shipment.

Thanks.
 
Agree

Neil has it right, the responsibility for this lies with Ken Yates. It has been shown that he is a looser and this just puts the icing on the cake. He keeps trying to act like a big boy,(hired someone else to box them) but in the end he doesnt give a darn about anything but robbing a little of Peter to pay Paul. Bet the money went to help bail out his siding business. And since it appears that money is what was used to start the reptile business when will if ever end. Wonder what Anja is doing? and if she is still tied to him???
 
Don't You Have To Verify...

the animals are dead or alive in front of one of the airlines employees before even departing with the package? Whenever I've received anything I've always had to inspect the animals in front of an employee to verify the animal's status. They even mark it as having arrived alive on the paperwork. I can understand with venomous snakes this may not be the procedure for safety reasons. My bet is the actual contents were not specified and I think the shoddy packing job is 100% Ken Yates responsibility, NOT the airlines. Delta should ban himfromshipping with them after this incident. One idiot like that can put an end to the airlines handling live reptiles period. Then where will we be?
 
Venomous reptiles do have different container requirements that most certainly includes wood boxes. If this was not the method used then Delta should definately be notified of kennyboys taking everyones lives for granted.

I would also highly recommend that necropsies be done on at least a few of the dead snakes to determine if they were even alive when shipped. It would surprise me not at all to hear that they were dead before they left kennyboy's place.

Wes Pollock
 
The specimens should have absolutely been packed differently. The little hand warmers last less than 4 hours..6 at best. The boxes should have been wooden and built as per Delta/IATA regulations. Minimum 3/4 NOT 1/4" insulation. Was it shipped Dash or Priority freight? I have shipped with Delta for over 25 years and know many of the supervisors. They are surprisingly cooperative with placing the boxes inside or in a heated holding area(For dogs and Cats etc.) if you ask. I've had them make mistakes however. The specimens should not have been dead in 40 and up temps?? Even tropical species can survive colder temps for short periods. I can give you plenty of direct examples. They'll usually have some complications after but, can survive it. Why would he have someone else pack them?? Were the boxes clearly marked? Seems to be plently of points racking up against Ken in this one.
 
For what it's worth...

I spoke to one of the parties involved, and learned that Mardi Snipes was paid to pack and ship the animals. I was also told that Mardi said ALL the snakes that were paid for were packed and shipped, so it is a mystery that some did not make it to the destination. I have heard a lot of good things about Mardi, and have never heard anything that would imply that he is a theif. I also tend to agree with Herpetological's remark that the snakes should not have died even if they were exposed to 40 degree temps for a little while. I could see it making them sick, but not killing them. After all, how long could they have been exposed to the cold? It cold only be for the little while after the plane landed, because I doubt the airlines let the area they load the animals in get 40 degrees. So they could only be exposed to cold from the time the plane was unloaded until the time they were picked up at the airport. Could the snakes have been dead prior to shipping??? I doubt Mardi Snipes would be a party to that kind of crap. Just my 2cents
F. Stano
 
I can answer for some of the questions...

I emailed Mardi, but he told me he is out of town until thursday a couple of weeks ago, so I will know shortly if he did pack them. I personally don't think that Mardi would have done a job like this, but I cannot say for sure until I talk to mardi when he gets back. Mardi is also shipping another snake to me, so I don't see how if he packed the animals and shipped them, he would not have thrown in that animal also. If he did pack and ship these snakes, I cannot see him holding out on some of the snakes that were suppose to be there, I would say that more than likely he only shipped what Kenneth gave him to ship. Which, in that event could explain how he would have not known what was suppose to be there since it wasn't his deal. I will have to post after I hear back and can confirm if Mardi did infact ship the snakes. Here is a pic of the boxes used.
Kevin Smith
 

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I forgot to discuss...

on the cold issue. I think it really depends on the type of snake involved. All the snakes were very cold, but the mambas were the only ones that perished. Could it be possible that mambas are a little more delicate as far as cold tempratures? Or maybe it could be because they have less body mass compared to the other snakes? Not sure, but a friend and I were discussing that thought.
Kevin Smith
 
Okay,

I just recieved an email from Mardi and He did bag the snakes, but he DID NOT box them or ship them. He did bag six neotropicals, but only two came to me, so there is only one person that knows what happened to the other four before they were boxed and after they were bagged. I would like to say that Mardi seems to be a very stand up guy and nothing that kenneth has done should reflect on him in any way.
Thanks
Kevin Smith
 
Body/Mass do indeed play a factor but, not as much as stress and condition.(Before they were shipped) Two very extreme examples... I found a male Haitian Boa loose back in the early 80's. The outside temps were in the low 30's to the high 50's for about 3 days. The extreme low that night was 28. Since none had been imported for some time previous it obviously was an escaped pet. The specimen was found in a yard and showed no signs of life. I took it inside for preservation(Formulin). I didn't get back to it for about 3 hours. I went back and it was quitely sitting on a shelf!!!! It didn't even end up with any complications!(rare) It was exposed to sub-30 temps for at least 10 hours and sub-50's for at least 2 days. I've even had matas and poison arrow frogs recover from temps in the low 30's.(Not my doing) I think one of the big problems is that many people try to warm the specimen back up too fast. This puts them into shock! If you do get a specimen that has been chilled don't count it out right away! Leave it to warm slowly over the course of a few hours. Although, if it is simply cold and still alert you can increase the speed of the warm up. Still be careful. Sorry not on thread just figured I'd point it out.
 
I just recieved an email from Mardi and He did bag the snakes, but he DID NOT box them or ship them.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to question anyone's information, but is it common to pay someone to simply bag your snakes and then return them to you for boxing and shipping?

This whole thing is just weird. The boxes were wooden, they were marked "venomous snakes", so I have to assume that the airlines treated the boxes as live cargo. It just doesn't make sense that they got THAT cold during the transit.......6 hours? 8 hours?

Are you having a necropsy done on any of the dead animals?
 
Terese.... I gotta tell you.... if those were MY snakes (even though I don't have a "hots" license), and I had to ship them out.... you could be darn sure I would hire someone to bag them up, and then I would box them up.... If Ken wasn't familiar with handling hots (duh), I don't blame him a bit for hiring someone to bag them for him.... that's the ONLY thing he did right!

Neil
 
Aahhhhhhh, I get it now. Thanks, Neil, it was lost on me why someone would hire someone else to bag their snakes. I guess I just assumed (DUH!! That's what I get) that if you kept venomous, you handled venomous.

Learn something new every day.
 
exactly...

Ray,

Yes, I have seen that before, I usually just simply put them in a closet with a space heater going on low until it reaches about 78F, that gives them plenty of time to recoup and they don't go into shock like you mentioned. I have had snakes pull out of it to my surprise, but have also been disappointed a few times. I have went to great lengths to save snakes in the past, such as recessitating them for an hour and managed to revive them. It is a very good idea to keep a recessitator just incase a snake is that far gone when it comes in. It has saved me at the airport quite a few times. I will post a picture of what I am talking about for anyone not familiar.

Teresse and Neil:

I also agree that is one thing that he did do right. As for the packing and using the cheap insulation with little or no heat source, that is absolutely crap and there was no excuse what so ever. Even if he is not familiar with hots, he should know how to insulate a box properly, since it should be the same with any snake that is shipped in these tempratures. I have not ever lost a snake and have shipped in the middle of winter numerous times, there is just no excuse for not using at least 3/4 inch or thicker(I prefer 1") insulation. I insulate in both winter and summer because it works in both hot and cold weather to keep the temprature constant and stable. Heat packs in the winter and cool packs in the summer. There is just no excuse for an animal dying because of laziness of the person shipping.

For just Teresse,

It is quite possible for an animal to get that cold during the winter. You have to figure what altittude they are flying at and what the tempratures are like that high up. They do not ship in a heated cabin on the plane unless it is a mammal, then it is in a pressurized cabin and I believe it is also heated, but not certain on that.
Thanks
Kevin Smith
 
ready for questions

i do not think it is right for all the name calling about me, although i do understand there are alot of children in this world.
i am willing to answer any question.
 
That's It?

Ken,

That's your response to this situation?!!? I wouldn't worry about everyone elses posts, yours' screams, no I take that back, SCREAMS what your standards are.

Kevin,

I usually feel that you need to give the vendor a chance to fix the issue before going to any legal actions (a personal dislike of lawyers) but what I read by Ken's response, that is the only way you will ever see justice in this situation.
 
namecalling?

I don't think I called any names except for maybe "piece of work", but if I did, I apologize.
Anyways, for everyone else:
Here is a picture of the recessitator that I mentioned. These are quite handy to have around. You can use a small cathiter on the end of the hose to administer air to the snake. You can go to most surplus places and find one of these in the first aid section, it sure beat giving a snake mouth to mouth;)
Kevin Smith
 

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