kenneth Yates of South Carolina

[oreganus]

I just emailed Kenneth...

So we will see if this is going to be settled after all of this. Here is a copy of the email that I sent him:

"Let me know what we are going to do, I told you fine on the rattlers and fine on the black mamba, but I do expect to be paid back for the greens. These are the prices that were listed on the ad:
1.2 W.A. Green Mambas 425.00 Each
4 E.A. Green Mambas 425.00 Each

Okay, I am not asking for that much obviously because I paid less than was asked for the whole lot. I have two mambas alive out of all the greens. I will take $175 each for them, since that is well under half what they were listed for. send me $600 for the lot that died, since I am not being covered on the black mamba or anything else. I think this is more than fair, Please email me back and let me know what you would like to do. I prefer to do this through email, then there is a record of the whole thing and there is nothing to argue about or deny on either of our parts. Let me know.
thanks
Kevin"

I posted this to show that I am trying to resolve this situation peacefully. And with an email there is no "He said" statements without any proof. I also figure that if this is taken care of and everyone sees the emails, that will also enable Kenneth to clear his name.
Kevin Smith

 

[elite]

ken harbert

i believe you are a jerk and like i said you have been against me from the begining and you are a moderator or mediator not someone who can single out one person and go after them
but i really do not care you mean nothing

 

[elite]

Mike,
I believe that Mardi said he packed the snakes but didn't state how he bagged them. Whether there were more than one snake to a bag or individual bagging on some or all the snakes.
I know ken is in trouble with the window company he has, he started elite reptiles with other people money from his other business. So with that knowledge, I would not put it past him, if the snakes were individually bagged that some may have went to another buyer???
I do not trust this person and would put nothing past him. I believe Mardi gave what he did, and I believe him. He seems upstanding. He did not say, however, how they were bagged. And after they were bagged we don't know.

i started this company with MY OWN PERSONAL MONEY and i do not know who started these statements and BS why don'y you all type what you know for a fact and not guess

 

[The BoidSmith]

Ken,

Lets stick to the facts. It seems as if Kevin gave you a fairly equitable solution to end this whole ordeal. Are you going to fulfill your end of the deal (send the $600)?

 

[oreganus]

It is now 11pmPST.....

and I have still yet to hear from Kenneth. He was called and told to answer my email, but haven't heard a word.
KEN:

I offered to settle this for a very fair price and gave you a chance to show everyone including myself that you will stand behind your word, so why won't you email me? If you take care of this, I will promptly email on here and apologize for this entire thread. I am not attacking you or asking more than is owed, I am being extremely fair and trying to enable you to show everyone that you are a good business man and stand behind your word. How come you can come on here and post about something totally unrelated to the topic and totally ignore a totally peaceful post. If you take care of this, I will post on here and that will benefit you way more than myself. Let me know.
Kevin Smith

 

[elite]

SEE WHAT IMEAN

elite,
You have been issued a warning by WebSlave on the account of Antagonism Towards Moderators!
You now have 22 Warning Points.
The ban limit is currently set to 100 Total Warning Points
ken herbart hates me and will do anything he can what a moderator. just someone who runs a site like a dictator

 

[elite]

kevin
i will answer you
i do not believe you. i sent the snakes and followed our agreement. i hate some died, i love animals and always have and anyone who knows me knows that. the people on this site don't. i would not harm any animal!!!! our agreement was followed i have proof of this with witnessess and pictures. you have lied to me anf your partner has called and left nasty voicemails and etc...
due to all of this I AM DONE WITH THIS

 

[Rob @ RK Reptiles]

Ken,


You have shown proof that you don't care about animals. By your packing job shows you only care about the money. If you had cared about the animals you would have packaged them to ensure that they arrived alive and well. Also you have shown no proof that you had any agreement to your so called "no live arrival guarantee" Another thing,you have agreed you issue the refund and now you are saying you are not going to issue the refund. You are doing more and more to dig yourself a grave in the Reptile Community. I feel it good that you are supposedly retiring and it would be best if you did and stayed away from the reptiles permanently. Also I would not try and re-open under a different business name as you will be shown then as well if you did try to. Just issue the refund and fulfill your requirement of shipping him what he ordered.

 

[elite]

rob and everyone

I PACKED THEM AS I THOUGHT WOULD BE GREAT.you pack something poorly and should be held liable only if you intentionally packed them poorly and npt caring if they died
the only live arrival was not given and agreed between the 2 of us was because he wanted them so quick and the low low price he paid i reduced the package asking price by over 700.00 and paid for all box charges
that was the AGREEMENT!!!!

 

[ReticEd]

I got this vibe...

About 5 minutes after posting yesterday.

Imagine this.

Oreganus sees an ad for the snakes.
Does a search on the BOI or simply recalls the name, Elite along with Ken Yates and thinks 'Cool, he's a bad guy, I can order them, say several died and get some money back.'

(M. Snipes DID post that the mamba was NOT the same snake he had bagged. and the recent history Oreganus has with Ray Hunter.)

Elite (KY), upon recieving the order from Oreganus, does the same, either a search or simply recalling the Ray H. thread. (both Elite and Oreganus have high profile, extremely long threads - easy to recall) and realizes an easy way to make money by not sending a few animals on the list or an incomplete order.

To me, it is as if one had the intent of scamming a scammer and in the process, was scammed.

 

[ReticEd]

One question I would like to know a deffinate answer on, is whether Anja B. is deffinately NOT working with KY anymore.

Ken, can I get a simple yes or no on that question please?

 

[elite]

i did not get scammed i followed the agreement we made and things went well. IF AND I DO MEAN IF the snakes i sent died that i am very sorry of. the problem is kevin kills snakes daily and could have taken pictures of any of numerous snakes in his collection. when you ship large orders the sad thing is that some while die. you always try to make that as few as possible and pack them the best you can which is what i did. i am sorry for any death but it is now over

 

[The BoidSmith]

when you ship large orders the sad thing is that some while die.

No comments. Self explanatory.

 

[Greg Riso]

Totally Unacceptable Attitude

Ken, With your outlook on shipping mortality it's no wonder animals died in transit. Rather than do everything possible to guarantee live arrival you used minimal insulation and simulated heatpacks for protection. I've had two shipments via airlines made to me that didn't arrive until the next day for whatever reason. However, this was not the case with you. Even WalMart has 18 hour hand warmers that are effective and inexpensive that would have been better for your use. For someone that supposedly ships a lot of animals it seems you certainly have no clue of how to do it. Is there such a thing as live arrival guarantee with anything you ship? If so you must be taking a beating because I can guarantee half of what you ship probably won't survive. There's no excuse for packing the animals the way you did. If the proper insulation had been used with decent heat packs the animals should have made it.
I don't understand why any buyer would accept a no live arrival guarantee with the animals being shipped via the airlines. I don't personally buy your story that this agreement was understood and from what I can see any verbal agreement of yours isn't worth the paper it's written on.
I've followed this thread and never once believed there was a snowball's chance in hell you would make good on this deal and surprise, surprise, you haven't. Imagine that!
It's apparent you have little concern for your reputation or you wouldn't walk away form this situation the way you are. Do you remember I was actually contemplating doing a deal for some CA boas? I decided to pass after reading about you here and being warned to run, not walk away from dealing with you. After I told you I was no longer interested in doing the deal you actually had the nerve to ask me why. You knew what I'd read here at the BOI yet still you were persistant. Such is the art of a con man.

 

[PAUL BOLLINGER]

Eddie Nolen

You took the thoughts right out of my head. Marti has already stated that the Mamba that was pictured was not the one that he packaged. Personally, I would fight tooth and nail for every snake that arrived deceased. No deal cutting for Wrong Doers. I don't know either party but I think that these two have common practices.


You Said it Right "To me, it is as if one had the intent of scamming a scammer and in the process, was scammed."

 

[Ken Harbart]

Re: ken harbert

i believe you are a jerk and like i said you have been against me from the begining and you are a moderator or mediator not someone who can single out one person and go after them
but i really do not care you mean nothing

Much like a neutered dog, you just don't get it... so let me spell it out for you.

I could care less if you think I'm a jerk. Likewise, I could care less if you thought I walked on water. I'm not in this to make friends, nor do I do this to meet new drinking buddies. This isn't a popularity contest, and my personal objective here is singular- the betterment of the herpetocultural trade. That's it- nothing more; nothing less.

Now then, let's look at this paranoid delusion of yours. Had I been "against [you] from the beginning," you wouldn't be posting here today. To begin with, let's go back to the "beginning"- a post by you on 9/28 in which you posted a threat against another person. I admonished you for it. Screw up, and I call you out on it. Do something illegal, which is exactly what you did in that post, and I'm going to read you the riot act. You were also issued warning points for that brain fart. No biggie.

Let's move on to the thread in which you made that threat. It was closed not once, but twice, by myself and Webslave because of those who were criticizing you shifted it exclusively to your failed window business and the accusations were generally vague. That was the end of that, as far as I'm concerned or care.

Not one who's smart enough to quit when he's ahead, you opted to whine about receiving a warning for threatening people, and insisted on being banned from this site. Well, we aren't nannies, nor are we here to protect people from themselves. Once again, had I/we been "against [you] from the beginning," it would have been easy to silence you right then and there.

Keeping with our chronological timeline, we move on to your next complaint about moderation of this site...my confirming in that same thread when your last visit to the site was. That's not sensitive information, so that one's a moot point.

Chronologically, we move on to this thread.I don't have the power to issue warning points, so you can quit whining about it. My guess is that you got the warning points not because you were antagonistic towards me, but because you were antagonistic towards my position as a moderator. Then again, it could have been because earlier in this thread, you threatened to sue Rich Z. Then again, it could be because Rich as simply gotten tired of you wasting his time by reporting your own posts. It could be any of the above, or it could be a combination of all of them. Either way, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Once again, Ken... it doesn't matter to me what you think of me. As long as you continue to conduct "business" in the manner that you have been, I'll continue to be critical of it. I'm not the type of person to sit idly by while you kill snakes and screw your customers out of substantial amounts of their hard-earned money.

 

[JungleHabitats]

To Ken

Dear Mr. Yates ( im using that LOOSELY)
I sincerely hope your retirement plan affords you are very large roommate.Some one that you will have the joy of kissing there snake everynight and being there closet companion for many years .

Its really tragic you try to show such a business man attitude when i honestly dont think you could manage a lemonade stand without screwing people over.i truely hope that when you are gone that you are GONE. Your kind just make it that much harder for people to put trust in all of the honest people that do business over the internet.You are like a nail in the foot of baby you whine all the time , you cry when you get yourself in trpuble and thin everyone owes you something when you screw people over .As far as your comment on packaging them the best you can im sure if you had the same mannerism in you window business that the poor soles had rain and wind coming in around every gapt you left in them ,

when you ship large orders the sad thing is that some while die. you always try to make that as few as possible and pack them the best you can which is what i did. i am sorry for any death

I have personally seen people ship large orders WITHIN the US that all have lived when properly packaged the fact is i dont think you could package the trash without it spilling on the floor before it got out the door .
M Yates i hope you have a really SWELL retirement
Respectivly
Alan

 

[Mustangrde1]

I have read this thread and really wanted to stay out of it as I FIRMLY BELIEVE this is a case of a scammer trying to scam another scammer and both screwed each other. I have really tried to weed out the facts from the outright lies. The problem is you have to look at the lies to try and find the facts from the fiction. In doing this you need to look at past actions of parties for the relevance of prior bad acts or intents as inferred by prior bad acts. In this case we have two people who in the past both have a less then stellar track record for integrity and honesty. With that knowledge we now have this case to view over.

Kevin wished to purchase snakes from Ken.. That we Know," probably one of the only honest things on this thread."

Kevin began unpacking snakes and found 4 dead " I am skeptical of this from past knowledge of him and his business practices"

Kevin showed pictures of the packing and heat packs" Kudos' Kevin your learning to back up words with proof".

KEN that packing job was one of the worse I have ever seen including from exporters from foreign countries. There was NO EXCUSE for it. I have been in Restoration Construction since 1995 which covers everything from demolition of entire dwellings to complete rebuilds and have seen on occasion an Home improvement store completely out of something I needed but have never seen everyone out. Even in the miracle they were all out Every journeyman I know has a back up which in the case of foam stripping is a simple trip to Walmart or the nearest Art n Crafts shop. In the event you want to say they too were out then why did you not get a higher " R factor rated insulation".
Ken has been posting on Kingsnake for a while now and regardless of if he packed or had someone else in his employment do the past packing for him I am certain he has at least seen and knew what PROPER packaging was.

Now I cant pass up the resuscitator gave me a hell of a good laugh, you use that on a snake kiss his inner working a big balloon popping good bye. If and Big if you barely squeezed just enough to give air for hour/hours it did nothing. The most likely answer is the animal regained body heat and or came out of whatever narcotic state it was in.

Now Ken at least said what he used to make the boxes, at least that was correct wood and construction for shipping venomous. Then again if he did that correct why did he skimp on the insulation. Perhaps to cheap or did not care.

Mardi did bag the snakes but did not ship them. I can believe that someone not familiar with venomous would pay a person with experience to do this for safety reasons. I highly doubt Mardi would have allowed them to be shipped in a manner of such outright and intentional neglect of care in packing with the knowledge his name and reputation might be brought up. I firmly believe he" Mardi" only bagged the animals and that was his part in this nothing else.

As to what happened after Mardi packed them ONLY KEN would know. Personally IF as Ken says they were all shipped that means there are some very toxic snakes out there missing someplace and I am sure DELTA would be looking for very deadly lost animals on one of their flights. This in mind by now they should have been found and Delta would have notified them. This makes me believe Ken sold the missing ones to someone else and they never did get sent to Kevin.

Onto the Black Mamba question. Mardi said it did not appear to be the same animal. Kevin backed off his request for reimbursement of it. This sounds to me like a switcharoo did take place for the picture!!! or he just didn't care and wanted some financial reimbursement!!" This is why I am skeptical of him"on this thread.

I did notice however the prices of the Mambas and at $425.00 each my guess is they are venomoids already. The selling price for venomous Mambas are running only about $125 to $150 for W/C and could be higher for C/B or LTC depending on who and where you purchase . So the argument of Kevin doing venomoid surgery on them would be moot at this point if they were already venomoids. I would like to know though if they were it would tend to show Ken brought up the Venomoid issue to purely try and make this in to something else and divert attention off the subject.

Ken wants to say in big shipments their will always be loss of life. Well, I have seen shipments much larger then what he was sending both arrive and be sent with 0 fatalities when properly packed correct. So that's a load of cover up horse manure.

I will conclude with saying Kevin you have learned from past problems and stayed on focus which shows more maturity and credibility in this case and I believe you on most of your points. Still with your past history I am very leery to believe it all. Perhaps in time I will believe you are trying to change but so long as you are in to venomous reptile alterations I can never believe you 100% when it comes to dead animals you may have received.

Ken You are from the evidence and your trying to turn the issue potentially in to " venomoid issue "in my opinion if I was on a jury you would be paying for damages. You used inappropriate packing material and possibly did cause the loss of life of 4 animals you did this with knowledge and forethought and tried to make up excuses. As an owner of a business dealing with living animals you should and I have no doubt did know how to properly pack and insulate for the shipping of these animals.

Scott Bice

 

[The BoidSmith]

Out of curiosity

Kevin,

Is the address you posted in this thread the same you requested to be removed from the BOI a few weeks ago due to high risk/security reasons?

 

[Wilomn]

Well kennyboy, what do you have to say now? There is NO ONE here that thinks you are in the right. Hmmmmmm seems like we've been at this particular juncture before.

I'd still like to see a copy of the alluded to contract between you and kevin. But, in reality, I seriously doubt there is one. I'm not surprised, it's not like you haven't lied almost everytime you've posted here.

Better get yourself a cute little skirt as you'll no doubt be someones girlfriend in the near future.

Wes Pollock