Bad Guy Keven Vogenberger Misrepresenting Imports.

[tlmoon]

Matt Karl seems to be intentionally derailing the thread. Do you not have anything better to do?

I would love for Keven to improve - he sounds like he's sincere and wants to....but he has a pattern of "mistakes", some of which were quite egregious (the giant legged, sick frog comes to mind). You can only say, "oops, my bad" and brush things off as just a mistake for so long. After a point you stop giving a person the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MikeCurtin]

because i asked if maybe he made a mistake???? Thats crazy.. but whatever makes you feel better. i could never trust you cause your name is stupid and you lack clerical thought.

It has nothing to do with you asking if he may have made a mistake.

Here are some of my early comments to this thread where I gave Keven the benefit of the doubt(and called into question Ed Clark's motives for this thread). You can read the progression of my changing view of his ads. Even when it became clear that it was either willful ignorance or deception, I did not bash Keven (or you).

Here is another ad for tegus with the same language, using the 2 terms interchangeably, but with photos of eggs and what is apparently a newly hatched baby.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664691

Did you contact Keven to clarify the language, or did you come straight here to post another bad guy thread?

Not saying I would personally feel comfortable buying from Keven, but I fail to see how this thread is helpful.

Keven has had some less than stellar transactions, to be honest. He may have even had one with regards to captive hatched vs. captive bred origin (I do not specifically recall). Captive bred/born/hatched have been erroneously used interchangeably for years, and many times unintentionally.

The whole point here is that Ed is assuming they are indo imports, and I'm not sure I would label this particular ad as dishonest until I, as a buyer, asked further questions about the origins of the animals. I know I would not intentionally seek out to smear someone with whom I had no intention of doing business based on some ambiguous wording.

He states that they are captive born.....they were born in captivity. Animals born to live bearers are captive born, not captive hatched.

This is why I am not so quick to condemn someone for being deceptive when those terms are used interchangeably.

You are correct.

I would also like to re-think my defense of innocent confusion between captive born and captive bred, James. I just went back and found a thread where I defended Keven for the same "mix up". Considering the past confusion, he should certainly be paying better attention to his descriptions of the animals he sells at this point.

 

[Ed Clark]

keven say i don't know lol. like it matters...... they hate me me now maybe more than you.

This is crazy! I just love animals....I came here cause I love animals... All i wanna do is work with animals....people now hate me cause i asked if maybe this guy made a mistake....

wow no matter what i say is f'd.

maybe it should be a vulgar display of power...

You are not adding anything to this thread,step away and think how you want to be perceived by us all.

My opinion of Keven stands, it is not because of a personal grudge. its more about his consistent lying trying to get out of the problem of the week. and the way he treats his animals so badly.

 

[Andy_G]

because i asked if maybe he made a mistake????

He's actually made multiple perpetual "mistakes", mainly flipping animals he knows little to nothing about while continually passing the buck to people he purchased from, as well as zero ability to keep a single story straight, and yes he has been defensive towards or rude to people who have been completely objective and offering nothing more than insight in other threads. I could see justification behind your question if it was an isolated situation, but that isn't the case.

 

[Snake-Queen]

She just said she didn't believe it...could you imagine had Keven made that comment to Ed????? People would lose their minds!

Why condemn what is a troll post? One designed to stir the pot. I said my peace, that should've been sufficient.

I also believe Keven should find another outlet for his love of animals. He makes "mistakes" quite often in his wording and identification of reptiles.

Your comments provide nothing but self-deprecation and deflection.

 

[Lucille]

He's actually made multiple perpetual "mistakes", mainly flipping animals he knows little to nothing about while continually passing the buck to people he purchased from, as well as zero ability to keep a single story straight, and yes he has been defensive towards or rude to people who have been completely objective and offering nothing more than insight in other threads.

He has just posted quite a few animals for sale, and specifically advertising each one as healthy just like he did for that miserable misidentified sick looking chameleon that was the subject of another Keven thread.

I would like to thank Rich for implementing the BOI icon idea (was that Harald's idea, I don't remember) so that those looking at a Fauna classified ad have the BOI on 'speed dial' so to speak and can see BOI threads about the seller by clicking the icon on the bottom of the classified ad.

 

[Vorlon1]

I do keep BTS and buy dubia roaches from a local pet shop. The owner imports BTS, about a dozen at a time. Every time he gets gravid females that have young that are born in his shop. In his shop they are well cared for. These would be "captive born".

The wild caught adults appear over active, and on the thin side.
I am making no judgement on Keven. I am just trying to inform.

 

[Chris Kennard]

After reading this thread, I am truly suprised the the only phrase I haven't seen here is..."I know you are but what am I?".