Bad Guy Kimberly Mingus

[SPAR0W HAWK]

Well here we go again, seems like I get someone every year. I responded to a post on Bearded Dragon Classifieds on FB left by Kimberly Mingus (also a FB friend) about a slow growing Silkie Dunner BD female. I think she was offering it for 150 + shipping OBO, I offered $165 shipped. She agreed. For the rest of the story here is the FB messages explaining it all...
Crystal Koppenhafer

How much are you asking on the silk dunner?
2:10pm
Kimberly Mingus

$150 plus shipping obo
2:13pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Could I see a pic of her sometime? And what r the details on her?
2:15pm
Kimberly Mingus

She hatched the week of st pattys. She is possible het hypo. She has also lost a few toe nails but not any of her tail. She's 4 grams now.
2:18pm
Kimberly Mingus

She eats small crickets and meal worms just fine. She's just growing slow
2:18pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

So she is a lil over a month? I suck at knowing the dates of holidays
2:20pm
Kimberly Mingus

Lol yea. She should be 5 almost 6 weeks
2:21pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Ok give me a quote for shipping to 65265 please
2:23pm
Kimberly Mingus

Shipping is $40
2:33pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Ok Im figuring out what I have, Ill get right back with you.
2:45pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Will you do 165 shipped?
3:01pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

I can send it immediately and have no problems with you shipping Mon, let me know and ill get right to work on setting up her an enclosure
3:11pm
Kimberly Mingus

Yea I can do that.
3:12pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Do you have a paypal address or how do you want paid? Yay so excited to see me new baby girl!!!!
3:14pm
Kimberly Mingus

I'm happy she's going to a good home!! I hope you love her she's so sweet!! My Paypal is [email protected]
3:19pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

You should have the money now
3:20pm
Kimberly Mingus

Got it! I'll send you tracking tomorrow.
3:20pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

okee dokee
April 29
1:28pm
Kimberly Mingus

Your address on paypal is correct right?

I also need a phone number
1:33pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Yep 1708 Churchill Pl.
Mexico MO 65265
573-581-2943
1:34pm
Kimberly Mingus

Thanks!
1:34pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Thank you!
1:40pm
Kimberly Mingus

here is your tracking
799636594503
1:55pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Now to start pacing by the front door
1:56pm
Kimberly Mingus

lol don't do that until later. We wait to drop them off around 930-10 so they aren't there as long.
April 30
11:10am
Kimberly Mingus

Has she arrived?
11:10am
Crystal Koppenhafer

Not yet, usually here right before noon.
11:11am
Kimberly Mingus

Weird since they're supposed to deliver by 1030 lol
11:12am
Crystal Koppenhafer

Yeah my location takes longer, lol
11:12am
Kimberly Mingus

Oh gotcha!
11:50am
Kimberly Mingus

I shipped out 2 last night and I'm more worried about this one than the other.
12:00pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

She's here! A little toasty from the heat pack but Im letting her cool some before I soak her.

Boy is she pretty!
12:01pm
Kimberly Mingus

I was worried about the heat pack, I didn't want her to get too cold. Debbie from reptiles express said to use one but put holes in the box. It was confusing. Glad she's there safe and sound!
12:24pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

I got her soaking now, just giving her time to recover from the heat. Can't wait till she is less stressed so she'll open those beautiful eyes!
12:24pm
Kimberly Mingus

Was she really hot?
12:27pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Yeah it was pretty hot in there, but Im taking my time with her and helping her recover slow so she doesnt get shocked or stressed more.
12:27pm
Kimberly Mingus

Okay let me know if anything happens. I guess we didn't put enough holes in.
12:29pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Probably didnt need the heat pack honestly. I keep you up to date on her. Just letting her relax for now
12:29pm
Kimberly Mingus

That's what I was afraid of. But please do she's such a sweetheart trust me!
12:30pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Oh I can imagine, got a feeling she is going to be spoiled rotten here
12:31pm
Kimberly Mingus

Aww good!! I can't wait to see her when she gets bigger.
12:54pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Eyes are now starting to peek open!
12:54pm
Kimberly Mingus

Awesome!!!
May 1
1:40pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Guess who ate their roaches! She is in one of my outdoor enclosures right now enjoying the sun
1:41pm
Kimberly Mingus

Awe good!! She finally settled in and opened her eyes?
1:42pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Yep, I was able to put her in normal temps last night and then this morning she chowed down on food, pretty sure she's gonna be just fine
1:44pm
Kimberly Mingus

Good! Did you come up with a name for her?
1:45pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Not yet, it can take me awhile, its gotta be perfect, lol.
1:48pm
Kimberly Mingus

I feel that!
May 5
6:49am
Crystal Koppenhafer

I just went to say good morning to my baby girl, and she had just passed away I so thought she was going to be ok!!!!!!! I just hate the fact she had to die alone I was just a few min late, she was still limp I am so going to miss her! This really sucks!
May 5
11:51am
Kimberly Mingus

I'm so sorry!! I can send you another baby in 2 weeks when they're ready if you want. I wonder what happened?

Crystal Koppenhafer

How those new babies coming?
June 3
12:21pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Is everything ok?
1:31pm
Kimberly Mingus

Yea just stressed out.
2:21pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

No problemo i understand that one, I hope things get better for you!
2:45pm
Kimberly Mingus

Thanks!
Thursday
11:29am
Crystal Koppenhafer

Things going better? Any news on the babies?
Sunday
1:57pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Are you selling out or something? Whats going on?
1:59pm
Kimberly Mingus

I don't have any babies left I didn't know you wanted another one, I'm sorry. My boyfriend joined the navy so were selling everything. I'm keeping 1 dragon for sure maybe 2 if no one buys my other.
2:05pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Oh so Im just out then? I was hoping for something to replace her, that was a lot of money for nothing to show for only a couple days that she lived. I know that it was overheating that did it and that the person who told you to include a heat pack is to blame. Im not trying to be mean Im just trying to understand what your thinking on about this. Im so VERY SORRY you have to get rid of everyone, Id be bawling my eyes out Please talk to me about it if your willing.
Monday
7:55pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

?
8:50pm
Kimberly Mingus

I didn't get a reply from you when I said I had other babies, so I had no idea you wanted another one. I really apologize but I don't have anymore and I thought you would let me know if you wanted one.
8:54pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Im sorry that I didnt reply I just thought it would be clear that only after 3 days of having her some type restitution would be needed. That was wrong of me to assume that and I apologize, I was just thinking of how I would handle it. But I don't think that this should just be let go either.
8:55pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Can we talk about a refund of some sort?

I did think that once the babies were ready you would let me know. Once again, I was wrong to think that.
10:56pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Do you still have the frilled, Id be willing to work something out for it.
11:00pm
Kimberly Mingus

What were you thinking?
11:04pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Well since you have it posted recently for 150 I have 165 invested, Ill pay whatever remaining shipping cost there is. So the 150 + 15 towards shipping and I pay the balance.
Tuesday
1:38pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Well?
Today
2:34pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Well you have ignored me for 24hrs, is this going to continue or are we going to try and work this out?
4:22pm
Kimberly Mingus

I'm sorry I do have a life and things with my family do come first. I can't do the frilled for that much since I do not believe it was over heating that killed her. I'm not saying you did anything either it could have just stressed her out too much. I've talked to a few people about it now and we believe if the heat killed her that it would have happened sooner than 6 days after you getting her.
4:41pm
Crystal Koppenhafer

Well I guess since you are backing out on the situation Ill let everyone know how you conduct your business. Thanks for what little time you have devoted to solving this. Your the one that offered a replacement not me. I just assumed you would go through with it and I was not worried. If your even thinking that I did it, I wouldnt go there. She was doted upon!
4:42pm
Kimberly Mingus

I offered you a replacement and you never let me know you wanted one. But don't worry I'm out of the dragon business and the only people I'm worried about know how I do things and have no problem with it.

And I never said you did it. It could have been a number of things. I already stated that before.

So as you see she is going back on her word and doesnt care about her rep since she is out of the Dragon business. Great for her! Once again things like this really makes me realize how much I hate most humans :/

 

[Lucille]

It sounds like the lizard was eating roaches, you put it in an outdoor enclosure for some sun, it sounds as if she was doing well for days. Are you sure it was the shipping conditions that were the cause of death?

Also, on May 5 she said she would have babies ready in two weeks. You did not respond until almost a month later on June 3.
Perhaps the seller should have sent another email, or perhaps you could have confirmed that was what you wanted. Communications could have been better.

I think perhaps if you had continued to talk to her perhaps an amicable solution could have been reached.

 

[Serafim]

It sounds like the lizard was eating roaches, you put it in an outdoor enclosure for some sun, it sounds as if she was doing well for days. Are you sure it was the shipping conditions that were the cause of death?

Also, on May 5 she said she would have babies ready in two weeks. You did not respond until almost a month later on June 3.
Perhaps the seller should have sent another email, or perhaps you could have confirmed that was what you wanted. Communications could have been better.

I think perhaps if you had continued to talk to her perhaps an amicable solution could have been reached.

I was wondering if the overheating was the issue myself. seeing as the baby was alert enough to eat and enjoy some sun in an outdoor enclosure..

 

[SPAR0W HAWK]

Yes I admit I was lacking on communication, May was a bad month for me. My mother in law took a bad fall and stayed with us for quite a bit of May. I was completely consumed in my mother in law, my son and my animals care, I barely slept, lol. I never thought she would do this plain and simple. Once my mother in law was able to return home I starting picking up the pieces of my life and noticed she hadnt let me know the babies were ready and thats when I began trying to contact her. It took multiple attempts to get her to acknowledge the situation.

 

[Lucille]

Do what? I hope your Mom in law gets better, I'm sorry she took a fall.
But your seller seems as if she did not realize you wanted a baby because you did not communicate back.
If the death was not due to shipping, and it does sound like the baby you had recovered enough to eat and sun herself, she was going to give you another baby as a gift, but you did not let her know that was what you wished.

 

[SPAR0W HAWK]

Ok so that makes it so she can completely dismiss that I had said animal for less than a week and she owes me absolutely nothing? Its seems like she was entertaining the frilled as a replacement until she found out I wanted to put forth the full value of the money I gave for the beardie? I would certaintly never just forget what happened if I was on the other side of the table. My customer would be taken care of plain and simple.

 

[RichsBallPythons]

Ok so that makes it so she can completely dismiss that I had said animal for less than a week and she owes me absolutely nothing? Its seems like she was entertaining the frilled as a replacement until she found out I wanted to put forth the full value of the money I gave for the beardie? I would certaintly never just forget what happened if I was on the other side of the table. My customer would be taken care of plain and simple.

Its your fault for not replying back in timely manner stating Yes ill take a baby when ready.

What was her guarantee as some dont guarantee animals but few days due to anything can happen in few days in someone elses care!

 

[koalaburr]

I'm at fault for not posting my guarantee I'll admit that. I normally do 48 hours but I never sent that to her. Bad on me I know. I thought she didn't want a baby after not replying to my message. We both assumed things and were wrong about it. I have offered to send her the only dragon I have left now except it's not a baby but she needs a good home. I got no reply so once again I assume she isn't interested. If the frilled was mine we could've worked something out but it's not mine. I'm selling it under my name since I'm on Facebook a lot and know more people than my boyfriend does. It's his lizard. If I had the money right now I'd send it to her just to be done with all this.

 

[Lucille]

Kimberly in my opinion you have no obligation to send anything. The offer of a baby was a nice gesture but not replied to in a timely manner. It sounds as if the baby was doing fine after the trip and then it passed away. I do not see how that could be an issue you would have to take care of.

 

[Snake-Queen]

Sometimes, six week old bearded dragon babies die ... it could be genetics, dehydration, impaction, etc.

OP, when the seller made the offer of a baby, you should have responded in a timely manner. The seller made her offer & you dropped the ball on accepting it. If I was her, I would have assumed you weren't interested in a replacement.

 

[SPAR0W HAWK]

Wow, Im really surprised on the view towards customers. I would never tell a customer they have a time limit on getting a situation like this solved, though I am a very patient individual and base things on the facts. There was a shipping issue, said beardie did not fully recover but was on its way. Died suddenly in six days, I would totally feel that my customer should receive restitution. To each their own opinion. We are working on coming to an agreement on this and just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for their view on this matter. I will post when all is resolved.

 

[Lucille]

The lizard seemed fine. This seems like an attempt to hang a bad outcome on a seller who sent a baby who was eating, and sunning itself. If your seller does send you anything, (and she sounds like a wonderful person) in my opinion it is a gift, not restitution.

Here, the buyer even tries to put fault on the shipper:

12:01pm
Kimberly Mingus
I was worried about the heat pack, I didn't want her to get too cold. Debbie from reptiles express said to use one but put holes in the box. It was confusing. Glad she's there safe and sound!



2:05pm
Crystal Koppenhafer
Oh so Im just out then? I was hoping for something to replace her, that was a lot of money for nothing to show for only a couple days that she lived. I know that it was overheating that did it and that the person who told you to include a heat pack is to blame.

BTW, are there pictures of the lizard that died?

 

[vschutz]

The shipping and heat pack is not an issue if the baby lived six days and was eating. That she was a "slow grower" is an indication that something may be wrong and you are taking your chances on a nice dragon for a lower price. You took a chance and it didn't work. And may I say I am sorry for your loss. Communication could be better at both ends. Since there are no more babies, perhaps a partial refund is in order.

 

[leaveittoweaver]

Not to play devil's advocate, I agree the buyer is at fault for not taking the seller up on her generous offer, but if I was the seller, to cover myself, I would have tried reaching out one more time. Emails can get lost, people get busy and forget things. I would have tried at least one more time to reach out to the buyer.

 

[Fangthane]

Not to play devil's advocate, I agree the buyer is at fault for not taking the seller up on her generous offer, but if I was the seller, to cover myself, I would have tried reaching out one more time. Emails can get lost, people get busy and forget things. I would have tried at least one more time to reach out to the buyer.

While the buyer was clearly negligent in not making it clear that she wanted a replacement, I'm surprised to see so many people who are so satisfied with the seller's half-hearted attempt to make good on her offer. How could anyone reasonably assume that a buyer wouldn't be interested in a replacement for their dead dragon? Who wants to end up with nothing to show for their payment? It's not as if the shipping went off without a hitch. The apparently excessive heat caused by the chosen packing method has simply created more than enough reason to think that the seller's actions had set the stage for the dragon's demise. When the shipper makes such a clear mistake, which is quickly pointed out by the buyer, I think the originally intended 48 hour guarantee goes out the window.

 

[Bill T]

At that size there is a number of things that could have caused it's death. I pearsonaly would not have purchase it at 4 grams at that age.

 

[Lucille]

Between the 'apparently excessive' heat and the 'demise' (are their pictures?) the dragon was reportedly eating and sunning.
I'd hate to see sellers here, in general, on the hook for replacements for deaths after the critter appears fine for days. The buyer must have thought the critter was OK, or else why would she put the critter out in a sun cage if she suspected heat issues?

I believe the seller is working on a resolution, even though I believe personally she is not obligated to replace.

 

[leftycrane]

It's not safe to assume they would want a replacement though. I had a gecko arrive DOA and I did NOT want another shipped to me as a replacement, I wanted a refund (I was scarred for life and swear to never ship anything again just because I will be too freaked out) but the assumption that anyone would automatically want a replacement is wrong. She says her guarantee is 2 days, the dragon lived for at least 5 in the OPs care, her offer to replace it was very generous and if the OP wanted either that or a refund she should have stated it. It's sad that this dragon died, and there might have been some poor communication on both parts, but I don't personally feel either of them is a "bad guy".

 

[Fangthane]

Between the 'apparently excessive' heat and the 'demise' (are their pictures?) the dragon was reportedly eating and sunning.
I'd hate to see sellers here, in general, on the hook for replacements for deaths after the critter appears fine for days. The buyer must have thought the critter was OK, or else why would she put the critter out in a sun cage if she suspected heat issues?

An animal has a temporary rally after being removed from a deadly environment. Not entirely counterintuitive. Even if it "appears fine" for a few days, that's still a very truncated timetable. While you seem content to protect the sellers; I'd hate to see buyers on the hook for eating the cost of a DOA, especially after the seller admits to shipping in such a way as to put its life in extreme danger, while very likely creating whatever circumstance led to its untimely demise, in less than a week. That's not even taking into consideration whatever underlying condition it may have had, which led to it being undersized for its age.

Had it not been overheated during shipping, my opinion would be right in line with the rest of the herd. Unfortunately, that's not the case, so I do think the seller is, at the very least, somewhat culpable for the dragon's death. Yes, assuming it's actually dead. Let's leave no stone unturned in our effort to remove any degree of responsibility from the seller.

It's not safe to assume they would want a replacement though. I had a gecko arrive DOA and I did NOT want another shipped to me as a replacement, I wanted a refund (I was scarred for life and swear to never ship anything again just because I will be too freaked out) but the assumption that anyone would automatically want a replacement is wrong.

Replacement or refund - they both amount to the same thing: Reimbursement. To assume that someone would have no interest in being made whole is a fairly ludicrous ASSumption.

 

[leftycrane]

I agree they are both reimbursement...but she never specified if she wanted one or another after being offered a replacement AFTER the sellers guarantee lapsed...which she didn't have to do. Seller offered reimbursement of some kind, OP never accepted. For the seller to still be trying to work it out with her is going above and beyond to me