Kingsnake.com... Again...

[Svee]

bambiism or bestiality?

The animal loss area deals with lots of things about someone losing a pet. It is sponsored (or whatever you call it when online by PetHobbyist.com {the parent site of kingsnake.com - I believe}). I would never have imagined such stuff on kingsnake.com; but as if that had not been enough of a shock to my system - just try to imagine what amazement (and horror) I felt when I clicked on the "Animal Issues" link and found a link to this article: Young mother nursed orphan pups


Yep, thats extreme, and obviously supported by the hosts. im skeeered now. heck...i felt like genuflecting and crossing myself...and im jewish! the standard of educated and practical responses will drop because of the beliefs and attitudes of this particular strain of 'herpetologist'. i am appalled at the anthropomorphic rubbish that has been put forward as fact on the other boards ...and then this? OMG - i just had to think bestiality! suckling an animal {ew ew} is just the next step isnt it? no bloody GTP is gettin near me! ok...it doesnt apply. i was just taken back to fantasy years of Tarzan raised by wolves etc., im sorry but i dont want to go there, not here... thats for movies and books and people who have nothing more to do with their time than try to prove how 'tame their amazingly intelligent, personality filled reptile' is... and having them perform by having them come when called and spell out S.O.S. with their bodies in times of distressssss.... heck...... i find the whole issue disturbing particularly because it takes away from the incredible natural make up and instincts of reptiles...as they really are.. not animorphed! and it reeks of control and directive. i refuse to be directed into that inane way of thinking and i resent it in my face.....its an insult to serious, ground level herpetoculturalists. im a school teacher.... actually, and have studied {just this year in fact} 'childrens acurative behaviour' do you have any idea of what this can to a childs perception of reality as they grow up? i do not want the children i know and love thinking they can tame their dads redbelly or green tree snake to do what they say.....do you? please reassess... as i will when i begin to read any post on here.... NB other than that guys .... you have great info, some of the most intelligent and respected herpers and im happy to be associated with you guys and sitting at the feet and hearing your wealth of information and wisdom.. {do ya think that got me in favour with the good guys?} this is absolutely true. thanx for that.

 

[HerpTiles]

Getting Banned

Well I got banned from Kingsnake about 2 years ago for posting a complaint about recieving spam from them. I signed up for a classified account and nowhere does it say on the order form or the TOS that they will send out SPAM. Well within 10 mins of posting it to the boards on kingsnake I get a nasty letter from Jeff stating they can do what they want and then canceled my account.

This wasn't the first time Jeff and I went round and round. I one time contacted him about doing recipercating links with my site, http://www.herptiles.com "Which by the way has been running for OVER 7 years" He said it would be a dis-service to his customers because I do the same thing he does. Then he says I should have contacted HIM BEFORE starting my site and he would have given me better ideas than doing this. My site was up and running for 3 years BEFORE kingsnake.com. Hell I remember when Jeff ran his site from his personnel account and had a classified section that HE had to update on a monthly basis. Well enough of my rant...


If anyone needs or wants ANY service that Kingsnake.com offers I will give you the same thing at 1/2 their price. Plus I'm more CUSTOMER friendly.. LOL

Check out my herp site http://www.herptiles.com
and the Hosting Business http://www.iwpp.com

 

[dwedeking]

Special Characters In Ads

Ritchie,

I got the same email from kingsnake about the special characters in the subject line. I removed the characters in my ads and then wrote Kevin stating that I made the ads compliant but in reviewing the classifieds sections that at least 50% of the ads were non-compliant and I hoped that the playing field would remain level for all advertisers. He replied back that he sends out that email to about 20 - 30 people a day. I've brought a number of issues to Kevin's attention and he's replied back with an email (usually within 24 hours) stating their position. I think in dealing with a large site like Kingsnake.com you need to word your emails so they do not appear confrontational. Personally I think that this rule is a little overboard but you won't get anywhere bucking their system as they have total control over what happens there.

I also think that as a business people need to make sure they are not putting all their eggs in one basket. What if Jeff wakes up tomorrow and says he's ready to retire and pulls the plug? You should have alternative streams of sales leads already in place.

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

I've gotten the same thing...

from Jeff regarding any concerns or questions about my ads being removed or warnings I've gotten. I just send an e-mail and get one back usually within a day or two explaining what happened. I rarely get mad or fired up in my e-mails to kingsnake mainly because if I have an ad taken down, I get a warning about it, then I repost it later on. No biggie.
BUT, with kingsnake being as big as it is, the moderators/staff SHOULD be prepared and somewhat understanding if people get upset because their ads are removed for a violation that you clearly see other advertisers getting away with. Large companies that wish to remain to be professional should realise that sometimes their customers will be upset and instead of flying off of the handle back at them, they should make an attempt to satisfy their customers before taking such measures as banning and cancelling their accounts. THEN if the customer is still being an a$$, cancel the account and ban them from utilizing the site. If you have a complaint with a shirt you bought at Macy's and you bring it to their attention in a less than happy way, they won't normally kick you out of the store, most of the time they will just do what is necessary to make it right and keep the customer coming back. I don't think that an online service like kingsnake should be THAT much different. BUT, I also agree that you should at least try to be as professional as possible as a customer because it shouldn't pay to be rude(though unfortunately in this society it often does). BUT on the other hand, as I stated, with a service as large as kingsnake is(hundreds of paid advertisers), they should realise that a banned customer is no customer at all and that if someone isn't happy with the service they paid for, they might not always bow down to whatever kingsnake tells them is wrong(especially when other people seemingly get away with it).

Hope that makes sense to at least someone. Ritchie, unfortunately I didn't get to see what was posted on kingsnake(unless you copied it here and I missed it), so I hope you don't think I'm trying to say you were rude or anything like that(and if you WERE...rock on! lol).

Cheers!

 

[Dwight Good]

Re: Special Characters In Ads

I removed the characters in my ads and then wrote Kevin stating that I made the ads compliant but in reviewing the classifieds sections that at least 50% of the ads were non-compliant and I hoped that the playing field would remain level for all advertisers. He replied back that he sends out that email to about 20 - 30 people a day. I've brought a number of issues to Kevin's attention and he's replied back with an email (usually within 24 hours) stating their position.

I think Kingsnake.com is a great site and I visit multiple times per day. Forums, classifieds, etc.

My only complaint is the lack of consistency with the TOS rule enforcements on the classifieds. Why is it that some people get away with posting whatever they want while others have to abide by the rules? Here is a perfect example on the colubrid classifieds section:
http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=32939

And here is a snippet from the kingsnake.com TOS...

<b>No "product" ads in the Animal sections - only animals We do not allow non-animal ads in the animal sections, no matter how closely related. An animal section can only have ads for animals in them. Period. </b>

Hmm, that doesn't appear to be an ad for animals. I reported this post to the kingsnake.com abuse link, but as you can see it was not deleted. This is just one small example, I have reported several other violations in the past by many other vendors. But I don't even get a response from the abuse coordinator/webmaster/whatever.

For this reason I have not renewed my classified account in a couple of years. Was hoping all the new additions and changes at kingsnake would result in a more level playing field but I guess some things change, some things remain the same.

As stated earlier, kingsnake is an excellent resource and I have no complaints other than the inefficient handling of the classified section. My webpage is hosted by kingsnake and I couldnt be happier with the level of service they provide with my account. Worth every penny. Which reminds me I will have to renew real soon.. lol. (that is if I don't get banned by posting my opinions here)

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Possibly the biggest violation I have seen is the posting of more than three ads per section per day. I have seen numerous advertisers get away with 4 or 5 ads in one day while others get slammed. I agree that breaking the rules is breaking the rules and you shouldn't use the excuse, "well Jimmy John-John got away with it, so why not ME?" because you still broke the rules, regardless. However, it DOES give the advertiser who got away with it an unfair advantage, whether intentionally or not. The same thing with ads in the wrong sections. If you try to sell a rack system in the gecko section and your ad gets deleted and you get a warning, why should the OTHER vendor who did the same be allowed to? I understand that the moderators and abuse coordinators have alot of ground to cover when it comes to classified/forum postings and that occasionally things fall through the cracks, but it seems to me at least that there are ALOT of TOS violations falling into the cracks as of late. I never contact the abuse coordinators regarding these things, though, mainly due to my belief that what goes around comes around and they will get theirs at the right time

I have a paid classified account with kingsnake and overall I have been very happy with their service and very happy with the excellent online resource they are providing. But I do wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be a more equal enforcement of the TOS there and that if you're going to have moderators, they shouldn't be touchy-feely animal rights activists who have barely a clue what they are talking about and you probably shouldn't post articles on women nursing puppies, no matter how cute or funny it seems as outside of comedic value, it doesn't really ad to the professionalism of the site.

 

[Seamus Haley]

Just a small peice of further evidence that proves the new Kingsnake moderators are all anti-private ownership of reptiles, animal rights activist, HSUS member individuals who are hell bent on destroying the pet trade in general...

http://www.anapsid.org/pettrade/index.html

Off Kaplan's own web-site no less...

I've been on vacation for a while so I haven't had a chance to send out screen captures or text that illustrates some of the sentiments these individuals hold true... And I haven't heard back from Jeff Barringer (No idea if the initial e-mail was even read) about my personal thoughts on the subject... I can send out some of the pertinent information to those who would like it... Not sure if it's acceptable to post here what with AOL's paranoid responses to use of text placed on their message boards and copyright laws...

For those that follow the link and read some of the articles this mad-woman has written, I ask you this...

Is this the sort of person who should be moderating a website that generates it's revenue and maintains it's existance because of the use and participation of individuals who make a living in the pet trade?!

 

[Glenn Bartley]

I posted in the Kingsnake.com General Snake Forum on 11/23/2002 requesting that people take a look at my web site. My post has not been deleted, although I know they often delete posts like this as was pointed out by Ritchie L. I guess the reason they did not delete mine was because I prefaced the look at my site with 'I am considering using ks web hosting services. Very AC/DC of them, inconsistent to say the least when it comes to enforcing terms of service and how they themselves interpret those terms.

I still like to browse their ads, and use the forums. I post on the forums to hopefully right some terrible info I have seen there and just to share herp info. But man oh man it is becoming a scary place with the bannings, the moderators and the links to assinine sites and stories such as the human mother breast feeds puppies thing.

 

[Svee]

For those that follow the link and read some of the articles this mad-woman has written, I ask you this...

Is this the sort of person who should be moderating a website that generates it's revenue and maintains it's existance because of the use and participation of individuals who make a living in the pet trade?! [/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Svee]

please stop the madness

firstly a complaint...why let me on here and then not allow me to edit!? ive even checked to make sure it wasnt my computer skills [?] that were failing..... pffffft.

 

[WebSlave]

why let me on here and then not allow me to edit!?

Because that's the way I set up this site.

You can edit and delete your posts in the 'For Sale', 'Wanteds', and 'Trades' forums, but not here nor in the BOI.

Sorry if you don't like it, but I have reasons for doing it this way.

 

[Svee]

please stop the madness

firstly a complaint...why let me on here and then not allow me to edit!? ive even checked to make sure it wasnt my computer skills [?] that were failing..... pffffft. i couldnt edit cause i wasnt authorized to...id just posted it..plus >>Sorry! The administrator has specified that users can only post one message every 30 seconds.<< whos been to the 'evelyn woodhead speeeed tipinn course'? only one post every 30 seconds? i must be lagging.....

Guys, editting is the least of your probs.

implement law change, teach your children to learn FACTS about them before keeping one...and please stop this books for dummies stuff... with financial backing and the ability to communicate with a 12 year old...we could all write a book.

unsuspecting novices are reading this flotsam in the bookstores. and are then, coming here for information and being met with these administrators...? i have read some of mks articles...disagreed a million times and will continue to do so.... she writes on Australian skinks! read some of our skink experts work and ....get it right.

you will have a misinformed country caring for misrepresented animals for a short while and, in the scheme of things....you will help to eradicate some species by ill treatment and - youll do some more crossbreeding? of course....weakening the stock as you go.

stop now, look at the situation...get these substandard books away from young enthusiasts..these hippified herpers have a lot to answer for..
keep an eye on them. or better still..new young blood.

now, dont come running crying to us when youve eliminated every australian reptile because of your liberalism. and remember, we wont let you have anymore...cause you didnt take care of the first ones!


how are we getting away with this....? arent they reading this stuff? Svee..

 

[Svee]

hahaha

Because that's the way I set up this site.

You can edit and delete your posts in the 'For Sale', 'Wanteds', and 'Trades' forums, but not here nor in the BOI.

Sorry if you don't like it, but I have reasons for doing it this way.

well i dont really mind, you may tho after youve got 3 quotes in a row from me, with no post in sight.... if you can cope i can...i am amused. Svee

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Pure lunacy...

http://www.anapsid.org/warwick2.html

I don't understand how THIS helps Melissa Kaplan's and the other One-time Wonders' cause. Essentially, what they are saying is that this so-called "expert" bought hundreds of reptiles and instead of learning anything new to try and keep them properly, he kept buying more and more after they started dying on him. Hey Kaplan, you're "expert" was feeding the DISPOSABLE PET MARKET!!! Did you realize that? The person that is supposed to back your cause is the person you are supposed to be fighting against. But yet, those of us who have no problems keeping reptiles alive in captivity and successfully propagate them in captivity are "evil." But your friend in Vancouver or where ever that bought and killed hundreds most likely due to seriously poor husbandry is an EXPERT?!

Just another example why this person and her entarrage(sp?) should not be maintaining positions of "power" on what is most likely the largest internet herp portal, kingsnake.com.

 

[HerpVenue]

1. Buy reptiles.
2. have them die because of your inadequacies as a keeper.
3. buy more reptiles
4. have them die prematurely again
5. Speak out and say that "keeping reptiles as pets is a BAD idea"
6. once you have accomplished 1-5 you will be a renowned expert.

did I get my time line right?

 

[Monte]

OK, how do we view all of this?

I'm relatively new to the herp world - about 4 years - but I do have a BS in Biology, plus studied wildlife and fisheries management, so I feel I have somewhat of a grasp of wildlife issues.

That being said, I can't quite figure out where Melissa stands. First she has all these tips for taking care of herps - but then she comes out with a load of crap like this man who killed all his herps and now is an anti-herp activist. It's as though she feels as though she needs to make a point about the decent care of herps - but then goes way overboard.

Why would KS get involved with people like this? Personally, I really enjoy KS and have found a terrific market there for some of the geckos I produce. But I fail to understand how having Melissa on staff is a benefit to KS?

I see that they are going to be having a chat on what's happening at KS - with the director of "Pethobbyist" sometime this week. It said it would talk about "rumors". I suppose we will see then.

 

[jbuncc]

that was alarmingly informative. what the hell does jeff barringer think he's accomplishing by employing these f'n wackos???? that is a complete mystery to me. hopefully he'll wise up and realize that his employees privately slam the industry that supports him and his family.

...still in disbelief... jb

 

[Doug Hotle]

I left KS.com years ago due to the BS that went on there. To be precise I was a moderator there as well. KS got to the point that there were so many "self proclaimed" experts that it was annoying to even log in and look around. Everyone was right, nobody could possibly concede that they might be wrong. And (going out on a limb here) 99.99% of the posters were hobbyists that were more concerned with color morhs than actual herp conversation. I would like to see it change directions, but then again I think it was a hobbyist board to begin with. Not that I am trashing hobbyists, just that some good old fashioned herp dialog would be nice once in a while too.

 

[midnightline]

Ugh, ok... things are at an all-time low right now. Has anyone checked out the cornsnake forum on Kingsnake? It seems that the topic of the week is whether or not snakes like pot. Ick. I hope it's not going to turn into one of those topics-that-would-not-die...

-Kat Hall

 

[E2MacPets]

1. Buy reptiles.
2. have them die because of your inadequacies as a keeper.
3. buy more reptiles
4. have them die prematurely again
5. Speak out and say that "keeping reptiles as pets is a BAD idea"
6. once you have accomplished 1-5 you will be a renowned expert.

did I get my time line right?

Wow, I had all the experience necessary to be an expert by the time I was 10 years old!

Well actually at that age, half my animals died and half got too big and had to be disposed of (harsh word for emphasis, but in reality I donated iguanas and balls to a local science museum where they thrived)... even more of a reason to speak out against them!


That makes me an expert with 15+ years of experience, and now I'm breeding leopard geckos which I suggest you only buy from experts such as myself!