Kingsnake.com... Again...

[Adam Block]

I'm sorry to chime in here but I would like to make a few points.

I will admit to doing and going about much of this with a fairly unclear head. I will also agree I can be a loose cannon.

With that said please, let's all sit back and think about something. We ALL LOVE REPTILES!!! I have been obsessed with snakes since I was 5 years old. I love them so much that I can't ever see not having a collection.

That is a bond that we all share. Regardless of how we go about this or what reptiles we keep, we still have that bond. I'm just as willing to help anybody when it comes to reptiles, if I agree or disagree with them on any other issue.

I can tell you for 100% fact, that I will go NO PLACE trying to be a lone wolf like I've been doing. Nobody in here will. What we need is organization! We need to draw on our bond and work together to find and make change! We need to put the little stuff behind us and focus on what counts! Our love of herps!

Ritchie said something that REALLY made me think. He said he wants to use a site owned/built by somebody who LOVES herps. I agree with that, I want to support somebody who loves snakes and this hobby and hasn't lost site of that because of money or because he's grown too big. I don't know what Jeff's motivation is but few will disagree that it isn't our happiness anymore.

Jeff has maybe forgotten one thing here. His site is HUGE because of those forums. Because when somebody new had a question we gave our time to answer them! I have answered 1000s of questions and given 100s of hours to help people, to help Jeff's site. To bring traffic to kingsnake.com. Without us, without those answers, the forums would have been worthless and the traffic wouldn't have come. WE MADE that site what it is, We brought the traffic and we're owed at the least a fair amount of respect! Much more then we've been given! That isn't Jeff's site, it's everybodies site, it's all the people that helped and put their time into making it what it is. Jeff has lost site of that! If you ask Rich, he won't tell you this is his site and we're lucky to use it. He'll tell you he's honored we choose to use it. I'm just guessing at that but I know the kind of man he is and I'm sure his motivation is driven by wanting to help and not by personal gain.

Please, let's stick together and help each other. We are all very smart and could have a lot of power if we use it correctly.

I'm willing to help in any way I can. I only know I've talked to and heard from a lot of people unhappy with Jeff's service. Maybe a poll on this site or someplace else would help Jeff see things clear. People are too scared to say anything to him and he may honestly be clueless to what he's created. If he were to see a poll, something that would allow people to rate his site, customer service, if they'd change sites if there was something as good, if they're scared of his temper and so on, maybe that would really be a tool that could help him and us.

Okay, I'll be done for now. Please just notice how I've toned things down and that I'm trying and doing what I can to grow up about this.

MY GOALS:

1) To have a fun, safe herp community.
2) To enjoy this hobby and help people learn from the things I've done.
3) To allow people to address their concerns without fear.
4) To enjoy the amazing gift he have in herps again.
5) To learn from my mistakes.

I'm trying people,
Adam Block

 

[NEWReptiles]

Oh Great

To add insult to injury, I was just sent a notice that the cost of the account for kingsnake is goin to double. I didnt want to start a new thread, but want to post the rate increase.

 

[Adam Block]

1 Month Standard Classified Account $21.55
3 Months Standard Classified Account $37.71
6 Months Standard Classified Account $53.88
12 Months Standard Classified Account $107.75
1 Month Enhanced Classified Account $53.88
3 Months Enhanced Classified Account $92.01
6 Months Enhanced Classified Account $140.07
12 Months Enhanced Classified Account $269.38


SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!

And you ask why? Because he can! Hell, if my neck was in a noose and somebody offered me a breath of fresh air I wouldn't care what the cost was.

Oh well, it's not something I have to worry about anymore. I would have done the same thing though.... That was damn smart allowing people to post for only one month! Heck, that's almost what I paid for my first account to post the whole year. I guess the free classifieds will do some growing, snake prices will go up and life will go back to normal until the next price hike!

LOL, Life is all too good sometimes!

Adam Block

 

[Seamus Haley]

Now... I can't stop it from happening at all and I probably wouldn't force the issue even if I were able and there's really no initial justification but...

I started this thread (pretty meaningless really but there's some psycological attatchment there) and... I gotta say Adam, I don't like you agreeing with anything I have to say. I don't like you agreeing with me, I don't like you posting disagreements with me, I don't like your involvement on any thread I have ever participated in.

Even when you do happen to agree with me...

Even when you can write a post acting like a human being every once in awhile...

Even when you make good points...

The public opinion of you is in the toilet and your agreement just detracts from the original arguments of anyone who you happen to side with because of your reputation for being a two-faced trouble maker. It really pains me to see you agree with anything I hold to be true because you have a history of being someone who makes really stupid descisions and then acts like a child in public after the fact. It always seems as if more crap ends up splashing on your supposed friends than anyone you dislike or disagree with...

You do make good points quite frequently and you are intelligent but your lack of self control makes your endorsement of an idea undesireable.

I would ask... I can't tell but I will ask, just once and politely...

Please, even if you agree with something or someone, e-mail them and ask if they mind you publicly stating your own similar opinions because you really do more damage to those that you try to help than those that you seemingly are working against in any manner and your involvement causes all sorts of questions and thoughts of guilt by association.

If you could do that, in addition to thinking before you hit that send button (not that there was anything wrong with the two posts on this page so much), I know I for one would appreciate it. Perhaps the time between asking if it was okay for you to publicly endorse someone else's thoughts and their reply would allow you to formulate a response that has a bit of tact involved and won't simply make people who read it automatically disagree with you.

 

[Adam Block]

That is the funniest post I've EVERY seen!! Thanks a lot buddy! I really needed a good laugh after a long day of working on the car.

Adam Block

 

[repitat]

Melissa Kaplan

Being relatively new to the reptile business, but being a snake owner for over 10 years, I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I have done an aweful lot of research in the past 6 months. Just about everything I do now is somehow related to reptiles. I didn't know who Melissa Kaplan was, but have found some of her "care sheets" in doing some research on different types of lizards and snakes. Even I went "WHAT????" in reading some of her bathroom material, knowing full well that with all of the research I've done, she's managed to contradict at least half of the reliable information I've found. Now I know, after reading all of the information on this topic and the information I've found from Melissa posted out there, to take anything she's selling with a grain of salt.

 

[Seamus Haley]

That is the funniest post I've EVERY seen!! Thanks a lot buddy! I really needed a good laugh after a long day of working on the car.

Somehow i missed the fact that this had been responded to, must have been on another section and then logged off after it was made... I figured you'd get a kick out of that.

I didn't know who Melissa Kaplan was, but have found some of her "care sheets" in doing some research on different types of lizards and snakes. Even I went "WHAT????" in reading some of her bathroom material, knowing full well that with all of the research I've done, she's managed to contradict at least half of the reliable information I've found.

One thing that occured to me fairly reccently about Kaplan... or re-occured at any rate, is the volume of care sheets she writes. In an e-mailed discussion with Rich about the addition of new care forums and care sheets to attract neophyte keepers to other areas of the website, thus to attract them to the classifieds sections, I offered to write a few and he pointed out, quite accurately, that any given individual really couldn't write a reliable care sheet based off personal experience for more than a few dozen species or so. Sure people can write something based off what they know and have read but this is not the same as a personal and long term experience with the animals in question... that few dozen species is even extreme for the vast majority of individuals who tend to focus their efforts. Kaplan's website has thousands of these "care sheets", after you filter out her own personal anti-pet trade agenda you're left with a great deal of semi-accurate or inaccurate information about animals I don't think she has ever even seen much less handled, owned or cared for. This came to something of a point in the AOL forums, which she moderates as she does KS, when someone asked for a more specific identity to a lizard they had purchased at a local shop. They provided a picture and a short description, including a highly dubious choice of habitat (one of those plastic river systems)... The picture was clearly of a rainbow racerunner... Kaplan's response was "Your fella looks like it could be some type of salamander - the problem is, I can't see it that clearly and I'm not much of an amphibian person." and promptly linked this poor kid to her salamander care pages. The fact is, she has no tangible experience with animals, I'm even beginning to question much of her iguana care information because it's loaded with anthropomorphizing nonsense and her desire to see the pet trade halted. She claims the internets largest database of care information... that may be true simply due to the number of pages, it certainly begins to rival KS and other larger informational sources... But the accuracy level is in the toilet. She has been accused of, and rightly in my mind although I have no proof, I have seen evidence, of plagarizing much of the material she has, changing it just enough to avoid copyright laws and making it seem original, those changes seem to be much of the mistaken and outright incorrect information. In addition to being the internet's largest purveyor of ignorant filth (care sheets and her personal views) she slams her competition whenever possible, telling people that her Iguana book is better and more accurate than Bartlett's and not to purchase any book but her own or Hatfield's.

The woman is a shameless self promulgator, beyond what is reasonable considering her distinct lack of education or experience and every single thing she does serves only two purpouses... to sell her questionable book... and to get reptiles removed from the pet trade. She uses her status as a moderator to support these agendas in every forum she participates in (Although strangely this one seems to be something she refuses to use despite being a registered member), supporting from her moderator's position any number of fringe animal rights activist causes and petitions that debilitate the pet industry as a whole, badmouthing competent and reliable breeders and dealers with sterling reputations but providing no proof and censoring anyone who disagrees with her.

 

[Glenn Bartley]

Yes I have read every post in this thread, but I cannot, for the life of me, remember if anyone has posted about this:

I tried to tell someone about the BOI yesterday in a reply I was making to a question asked in a thread in the kingsnake.com general Snakes forum. I mentioned the BOI in the post and when I hit enter a screen popped up saying sorry Glenn, but here at kingsnake.com forums you are not allowed to post URLs for the board Of Inquiry. Excuse me! First of all, isn't a URL basically a web address, not three words in one of my posts? Secondly holy horse hockey! So after that, I edited my post so it made no reference to the BOI, and I then linked the post to faunaclassifieds.co. Guess what happened, you got it! The same screen came up this time with the URL faunaclassifieds.com as not being allowed on kingsnake.com.

I seriously wonder if someone over there is becoming a wee bit paranoid in layman's terms, or just if power has gone to his/her head? Is someone over there so afraid of scrutiny of their business practices, or afraid of comments made regarding what many appartently believe is misinformation suplied by monitors, or are they simply afraid of competition? I do not know, but the actions taken by ks lately have me wondering what is going on! Exactly why is it that they have chosen to block out a user's ability to link to the faunaclassifieds.com URL in a post at the kingsnake.com forums. Faunaclassifieds.com is just another legitimate herp related web site, but it seems that someone at kingsnake.com is treating faunaclassifieds as if it were an enemy of the state. In my mind, I wonder if some folks from kingsnake.com have fantasies about coming to my house soon, dressed in brown shirts, intenet upon forcing in my door in order to get at my link list so they can burn it? Does that sound far fetched, maybe so, but things have gotten to the point where I really do wonder if someone over there is fantasizing along these lines. I really do not understand what is going on with what appears to be, in my opinion, all the censorship at ks.

Then there is the whole doubling of the price thing. Wow that has got to be a big hit for the smaller breeder/dealer. I would guess that somne of them wil drop off of that site as advertisers.

I wish someone over there would sign on here and let us know exactly what they think is wrong with this site or the users over here. It is a shame, in my opinion, that every time I place a response to someone at kingsnake I feel I have to worry about violating rules that they do not have the courtesy to post in their TOS but instead have appear on a warning screen. Today you cannot do this or link to that. What will it be tomorrow?

I really like the site and the really wonderful and varied forums, and the large wealth of advertisers. I just find it hard to put up with all of the, in my opinion: hidden rules and ever changing interpretations of the existing rules (as others have reported).
Iknow it is their site (management of ks) to do with as they see fit, but in my opinion: I just wish they did so in a more congenial, fair and open manner.

Best regards,
Glenn

 

[WebSlave]

Glenn,

I thought I made this pretty common knowledge, but I guess not.

Jeff's banning the mention of the BOI and FaunaClassifieds on KS is because I refused to delete Adam Block's thread about the problems he was having with KS. That is as per a phone call I personally had with Jeff and what I heard with my own two ears.
This is no third person hearsay.

Personnally I can't imagine why Jeff would have gotten all upset about Adam's thread, but since Jeff apparently took the step of getting Adam's website (Kingsnakesucks.com or something like that) yanked from angelfire's hosting service, I can only assume this is the case.

I guess I just didn't realize I could violate a KS TOS while remaining on my own site.

 

[Classic Dum's]

Glenn dont worry no one from Kingsnake is going to invade your house. Jeff doesnt want links to this site posted there, thats his choice its his site. You wouldnt exactly like a site that allowed people to post absolute bull about you would you? If someone was posting all this bull/slander about you somewhere would you link your site to theres? Well everytime one of us post links to this site on kingsnake we are linking Jeffs site to a site that allows garbage that is short of slander to remain. The reason you cant type "BOI" or "faunaclassfieds" is because the link and other possible ways to create a link are blocked. If it wasnt done that way next you would see f a u n a c l a s s i f i e d s . c o m or something like that trying to get around the block.

I havnt read this whole thread as I think its waste of time, this whole kingsnake issue has been completly beaten through the ground and were now roaming the streets in China. But as far as the raise in the price of the classifieds the ONLY people who have a right to say anything are those who only sell a snake or two. Anyone who is producing any kind of volume of any kind of reptiles has NO right to say nothing. The exposure you get on kingsnake is unbelievable, you post something on there if the price is competative it will sell in a VERY short period of time. You will NEVER get exposure like that anywhere else in the world for a measly $107 or what ever it is a year. If you buy a classified acount Produce one litter of columbians and sell your first two animals at $55, youve just paid for the acount. Then from there its all profits and you dont even have to leave your home. If ya got really nice columbians you can pay for that acount with just one. Ive seen people listing really nice ones on Kingsnake for $125 and boom their gone in less then two days. Maybe this was already brought up but instead of yelping about it here, maybe if enough peolpe contact Jeff he can set up a monthly deal for the people who only got a couple snakes. Ya know like $25 for 30 days or something, then you can sell your one animal. Because if your price is competative your only going to need a day or two and it will sell, so then you got 3 more weeks to post wanted ads to spend the money with. But I am sure that depends on time and staff because that would be alot more involved then yearly acounts, so its just a thought.

 

[Adam Block]

Jeff doesnt want links to this site posted there, thats his choice its his site. You wouldnt exactly like a site that allowed people to post absolute bull about you would you? If someone was posting all this bull/slander about you somewhere would you link your site to theres?

Well, um, Rich allows it. Real men don't have any issue with casuistry or criticism. It's the men that try to cover it in shame that are weak and have issues. If these were lies and slander why would he care? If we have no point, why would he care? If these were not facts why would he hide them?

Oh well, it's his site right? So if you come in my yard can I do what I want? It's my car I can drive how I want right? It's Bill Gates business he can do as he pleases. It's his kid he can beat them if he wants. That was his wife he can treat her as he likes.

Jason, let me make something clear. It's people like you who make American's look bad. It's stupid people trying to look astute that foul things up for the rest of us. Not only have your words been put together like an upside down pyramid but you're talking so absurd and dogmatic I can't decide if it's a joke or if you're really that incoherent.

You're a brown nosing, uneducated ID-10-T who makes us all stupider by even opening your mouth! You violate TOS and make an excuse. You do something wrong and it's okay but for others. Hey, it's Jeff's site. Jason, I've never lost this much respect for another person in one post but you just showed a lot about yourself.

Why don't you get off Jeff's payroll and find something worth while to do with your time other then worry about your sipper tubes that are a week behind or these stupid topics that you add nothing to. Don't you have a family or something? I mean, I can understand the people in your life wanting to pawn you off on the computer but come on?

Adam Block

PS As a side note, I'd like to say sorry to all other who've had to read this post. Jason has been festering under my skin like a bot fly larvae for the past month and somebody needs to speak the truth.

 

[Adam Block]

Oh and PPS... Yeah, yeah, blah, blah blah I can hear you clicking away with a little responce as we speak. Well, you this, and you that, and well I never! Save it, I've heard it, you're a broken record so save a little face and keep it zipped. If you'd like, I'll even hammer out your canned responce for you about me. Trust me, I have no troubles admitting my flaws. Maybe you should do the same.

Adam Block

 

[Classic Dum's]

All quotes below are Adams from various threads here on the BOI.
Tisk Tisk Adam I’m not the one being asked to stay out of threads because my reputation is in the gutter, YOU ARE!

Jason has been festering under my skin like a bot fly larvae for the past month and somebody needs to speak the truth.

This is really what this is about. You try so hard to run your smoke screen and I’ve called you on it several times, that’s why I am festering under your skin. What did I say that’s so offensive to you??? Did I speak the truth again, oh shame on me! Your whole thread Adam was nothing but BULL. You knowing brought it on, then whined about it. What was it like your 5th or 6th post within that thread you said:

thanks God I don't mind as I knew this was going to happen from day one.

Well if you knew why did you continue to push it. Oh thats right children must play games.

I have no troubles admitting my flaws

Well that statement obviously fits in the same category with most of your others, absolute bull. From your statements it is clear that you still haven’t taken responsibility for what you’ve done.

I can understand the people in your life wanting to pawn you off on the computer but come on?

See now that is the problem isn’t it, you can understand that from personal experience, that’s why you have nothing better to do than pick fights. Boredom from being pawned off huh??

As you can see, life is tough when you're not working and have nothing but time to focus on your friends or enemys!

Adam you being kicked off Kingsnake makes a better environment for everyone. It's your type of customer service that makes it hard for the rest of us. People deal with you and then because of the run around they are reluctant to buy over the Internet again. And yes I speak from personal experience with you because of my sipper tubes that were several weeks late.

Oh and look what I found, you talking about the people you owe money to

Second, I pointed out John, for that matter both of the Johns I own money to. God that sounds bad! In any event, I owe John $80 and I would call that a matter for John and I. He is more then welcome to call me about the funds or for that matter post in here. Otherwise that will hang over my head until I pay him and that's where the issue stands. Point here is I pointed out I owe the money and I don't see Jeff posting anything to those likes

So lets see

Otherwise that will hang over my head until I pay him

Have you paid the two Johns yet???? I somehow doubt it, so that’s two people you have ripped off that got brought up here on the BOI, how many more do we not know about??
So hows that for a canned responce??

 

[Rob Hill/Geckos Anonymous]

Jason and Adam,

no BIG offense intended here fellas, but can we at least TRY to stay on topic, which was kingsnake.com, NOT Adam Block VS. Jason Swelgart(sorry if I got the spelling wrong)?

But to be more or less back on the subject...

Adam, you admittedly teased the bear and fully expected to reap the consequences. You INTENTIONALLY tried to tick off Jeff and you got yourself banned. In that instance, you Adam Block, have nothing to really complain about. You flagrantly violated the TOS of Jeff's site and were even WARNED about it. You continued to break the rules and you were canned. Plain and simple.

Now, do I agree with Jeff banning the BOI and Faunaclassifieds due to Rich's unwillingness to remove this thread? A simple hell no will answer that. As this site is NOT the property of or any affiliation to kingsnake.com, there cannot be any violations of kingsnake's TOS on this site that would justify the ban and/or possible lawsuits supposedly put in place against it. Jeff also has no control over this site. He only has control over kingsnake and pethobbyist(and whatever other net projects he has going). Also, Rich has no control over kingsnake.com. If Adam posted a thread like this against faunaclassfieds.com on kingsnake, and Rich asked Jeff to remove it or pay the penalty, do you think Jeff would jump up and do it? A simple hell no will answer that. Jeff would think that Rich had some nerve telling him to do something with his own property or else.

In my opinion, as much use as I get out of kingsnake(again, with the exception of the animal rights activist moderators and puppy milking people strangeness) and with the so far professional service and contact I've had with Jeff, I think his attempt to "exert his will" over Rich and Faunaclassifieds was childish to say the least.

However, I think it is just as if not moreso childish that Adam started this thread to whine about being banned for tempting fate one too many times.

I just hope that this all blows over in the end and we can get back to business.

 

[HerpVenue]

Jeff doesnt want links to this site posted there, thats his choice its his site. You wouldnt exactly like a site that allowed people to post absolute bull about you would you? If someone was posting all this bull/slander about you somewhere would you link your site to theres?

Jason I agree with you.
It is his site..he can do as he wishes.
ALSO
if someone was posting bs sories about me....I would probably either ban the link or have everyone go there and defend me.

But there is something you should know.
If you think Jeff is just sitting at home doing nothing wrong and getting bashed for it.....Well. You do not know.

Sometimes I read responses on the BOI and wonder to myself if that person was posting stuff because Jeff asked them too. And NO I am not talking about people defending Kingsnake either. I am talking about "other" sites that can be construed as competition for KS appearing on FC....

The backroom is full of wheeling and dealing.....it is full of smoke and mirrors. And if you think that KS is not a participant in the backroom...................YOU ARE WRONG (he is probably the center of the attraction)

This banning bs is just the tip of the iceberg.


Webslave, my post probably made you cringe. AGAIN
But I am tired of everyone thinking that KS is an innocent bystander.

 

[HerpVenue]

Jeff banning the BOI and Faunaclassifieds due to Rich's unwillingness to remove this thread?

I think it is a little deeper than that.

how about taking care of your competition.

 

[WebSlave]

Warning!!

OK, I think this battle between Jason and Adam has gone far enough. This thread was not started BY either Jason nor Adam, nor was it intended to be about either one of you two.

This is getting to be pretty similar to the battle that took place between two other well known people on this site not too long ago. But I am not going to allow THIS one to run away like that last one did.

FIRST AND ONLY WARNING!!

If either one of you goes off on a tangent about the other within a thread that is not DIRECTLY about yourself or the other, then the offending party will be evicted from this site. If you all want to fight with each other, it had better be within a thread that has one or both of your names in the topic line. Please note that THIS thread does not have either one of your names in the topic line.

Better yet, take it to email. The audience doesn't want to hear this anyway.

OK, I have to eat crow on this edict. Someone pointed out to me that this thread is valid for both Jason and Adam to post about each other, since this entire discussion about KS revolves around Adam's being banned from there. I can't argue against that logic, so my posting here is misplaced and not appropriate. Sorry for jumping the gun, folks.

WebSlave

 

[Classic Dum's]

Rob no offense taken, I just wanted to see how long it would be lead astray. But now that we finally have Adam’s post being absolute bull established, I have a couple questions.

Let’s say on your web site you had a recommended breeders page. Within this page you choose one reputable breeder per species of reptiles for as many different species you could find. Now let’s say I was the breeder on your website for Dumerils. Well, sometime down the line I started posting negative things about you on my web site. Just really stupid and slanderous stuff such as calling you an egomaniac, accusing of ripping me off and things of that nature simply because of a difference of opinion. Would you continue to keep the link directing people who have found your site to my site? Honestly, would you leave the link to my site there and direct your traffic to a site with nothing but garbage about you? Now lets say I had the ability to update your web site or ad info to it. Would you continue allow me those privileges to add links on your site to mine considering mine had all the bull about you on it.


I wanted to address Adams comments about being a brown noser. The ability to think outside the box does not make me a brown noser.

Now back to the topic at hand, If you answered yes to the first question or no to the second, you do not have a reason to say anything about Jeff banning the links because you would do the same. Now I doubt 90% of the people who answered yes to those questions will honestly state it in this thread, but I am sure almost everyone who read that said “Hell ya I would delete the link to your site, moron.”

 

[Classic Dum's]

Sorry about that, We must have hit send at the same time. My last post isnt a shot at Adam at all its going along with the direction the last few posts were headed. This issue of Adam is my last post was only so I could explain my point of veiw to the direction it was headed.

 

[Classic Dum's]

Let me rephrase the last sentence in my last post

This issue of Adam IN my last post was only so I could explain my point of veiw to the direction it was headed.

how about taking care of your competition.

Well Rich L do you walk in MCD's and find advertisements for BK? No its competition. This site to Rich Z is a hobby he is not profiting from it so he doesnt care if competitors link to it, to Jeff its a business he is making his living from it. So theres nothing wrong with being competitive and not advertising for you competitors. I am sure Microsoft doesn’t allow people to post about gateway in their computer forums. I see no reason why anyone should allow or be expected to allow links to competing sites.

The backroom is full of wheeling and dealing.....it is full of smoke and mirrors. And if you think that KS is not a participant in the backroom...................YOU ARE WRONG (he is probably the center of the attraction)

Lets here more about this, see some examples. These are just general accusations that anyone could apply to anyone, how do you think phone physcics make their living, general accusations that could apply to anyone. So lets here some more about this.