Kingsnake NEEDS THEIR HEAD EXAMINED!!!!

[Wraith]

Re: Man that stinks!

I never entended to RILE anyone up to the point of doing anything like that! NEVER. I don't condone pornography and I certainly don't use it. I sure wish it hadn't gotten to that point. That was just downright ignorant! Anyway just wanted to express my concern on what happened. Hope no small children viewed that FILTH!

Unfortunately now you have to wonder how the moderators are going to view the collectively mentality of *all* members on the forum because of what that jackass posted (probably did it to look "cool" for his buddies). Whose to say someone didn't egg them on to do that? Sure as hell not likely the idiot will ever fess up to it knowing that everyone on the forum was disgusted by it. Anyone trying now to cause more disruptive trouble is likely to find themselves shot down and banned a whole lot faster than they would have under other fight circumstances. I've seen fights were a lot of things were pulled but apparently nothing held against the collective group at large, but when you start seeing that kind nasty stuff going on...the kid gloves have probably been taken off and everyone is suspect. All it takes is one ignorant person posting crap like that to ruin it for everyone because they crossed a line they should never have crossed.


Adrian

 

[MattP]

This is a test to see if the moderators of KS or KS spies browse this forum.

Check page 3 on the leo forum at KS, it is an advertisement for fauanaclassifieds!

Matt

 

[Wraith]

Bill of Rights
Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

I would gather that moderators choosing what to censor based on their interpretation of the TOS is in violation of forum users right to freedom of speech.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Please tell me when did CONGRESS become synonomous with kingsnake.com ? Congress shall make no law prohibiting free speech. kingsnake.com is not congress and neither is it the government therefore that is not the best argument to use.

Adrian

 

[hill4803]

LMAO, Matt...

You are wrong for that, funny, but wrong. You should look into a career as a lawyer...looks like ya found a loop hole! The moderator over there told me several of my posts had been deleted because I was trying to get around the TOS by being tricky with the faunaclassified.com thing! I never thought about going back, I don't think they read old posts, she sounded a little overwhelmed. But I'll bet it gets deleted, because there is some spying going on..,playing the mission impossible theme song....and I am still waiting for a reply to my request for a refund of my $$$ I paid for my classified account that they never bothered to tell me if I had been "approved" for or not! Shame on me for not sticking with fauna!

 

[Wraith]

Re: Thanks for all your help Adrian...

I already talked with the mod, she cleared some stuff up for me. By the way, I never trashed AAA reptiles or insinuated anything. I outright stated that the picture was not accurate & the geckos would not be blue.

ah.. and that as I can see it from my own point of view is in its own way insinuating that AAA is at fault for misrepresenting animals and could have been construed by the moderators as possibly libel against their business - not bad mouthing to the extreme like many others tend to post no, but still to be fair for everyone it probably got pulled anyway.

Adrian

 

[hill4803]

???

They did MISREPRESENT their geckos! They aren't blue! Those pictures are INTENTIONALLY doctored. Sometimes I am too subtle! AAA reptiles have done that with a lot of their animals, which is why I won't buy anything from them. It makes no sense...$30 is a pretty decent deal on blizzards, why do something stupid (like doctor pictures) to try to make the sale? It pisses off customers & causes mistrust. There is already too much of that going on in the herp community! If KS was really concerned about fair, how about they boot off all the con artists that have been using their website to rip people off for years. Check the BOI, it is loaded with complaints about assorted groups (NW reptiles, Bearded pets, etc...) and KS KNOWS ABOUT IT BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THEM! They don't bother to deal with it.

 

[MattP]

Yep, my post on page 3 is gone now....

It was up for a very long time too!!! They didn't erase it until I mentioned it here, so that means they do browse this forum.

Matt

 

[ragnew]

Hmmmm, I wonder who it is?

 

[Blazin]

HUmmmmm Not a clue!

Yeah I wonder! Man I just can't figure it out.

 

[ragnew]

Yeah, I don't know Chad... I'm pretty lost man... I've tried to figure it out, but, my brain hurts.

 

[Wraith]

Re: Hi Adrian

Just out of curiosity who exactly are you? Could you give us a little background. I don't recall ever even seeing you before!!! Are you a regular on KS? A moderator over there? Shareholder? Good friend of the founder? Please elaborate.

I post here a lot more than I do on kingsnake. I much rather enjoy reading forums (on either site) rather than posting to them. I like to read. Reading is fun. Reading is educational. Reading is also good for the soul. Besides, I'm lazy and reading doesn't take as much effort as participating.

As I have stated forthrightly in past discussions bashing moderators or other people is all well and good when it's deserved, but when it's being done without good intentions then someone should have the guts to go against the tide and say so. Here I am saying so. Seems to me like a lot of the moderator bashing is more on the unjust side than on the just side.

I like a good fight just as much as the next person and Sybella can attest to that. But, unlike some people I choose to do the fighting and bashing in an arena where it is essentially welcomed and encouraged.

This site has rules that are rarely enforced therefore it does become a breeding ground for people who like to fight and make accusations against others and all that crap and who really don't give a damn about respecting someone else's playground rules. kingsnake on the otherhand apparently chooses to not to go that route. I respect that they choose to do what they can to enforce their rules to allow for a safe playground where even children can be welcomed. So, out of that respect I bring the fun I have with fighting or arguing with someone here since it's not allowed there. Seeing people whine and wring their hands because they are not allowed to do things on kingsnake for which kingsnake has noted they do not want people engaging in is hillarious to me. People signed up to use those kingsnake forums and were presented with a list of rules to follow. Seems stupid to blame the moderators for enforcing the rules. Seems like the ones who should be blamed are the ones breaking the stupid rules. If ya don't like the rules of someone else's playground then why the hell bother to go there and ask to play with them? Logic would dictate otherwise.



Adrian

 

[Blazin]

but when it's being done without good intentions then someone should have the guts to go against the tide and say so. Here I am saying so.

What the %^#% are talking about. Nobody had malice for that site! Matter of fact the majority of us used it and enjoyed it! They became the BULLY! THEY selectively enforced their policies. THEY FLEW off the handle and BANNED people who had been there for a longtime! GEEZ get the freaking facts straight and WAKE UP!

 

[WebSlave]

You all probably need to do some research in the Web Watch forum for a bit. This sort of thing has happened before, apparently more times than many of us realize. I seriously doubt anything you say or do is going to change the way things work over there, so discussing it at length here or there is not likely to make any difference to them.

So let's get the discussions HERE back to discussing leopard geckos and let that other site continue on their present course, whatever that may be. We have our own course to follow.

 

[riverjop]

FYI

I posted some of my thoughts the other night on K.S., in that mess. And I checked back today and they didn't block me!!!....I guess they fig. there are bigger fish to fry! LOL
anyway here's there TOS if your interested.

nevermind!!!

 

[Snakebyt]

im working on a new sig for over there, just to see what they will say about it.. im sure they will say im voilating the terms of service, but oh well.

Home away from Home

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

my 2 cents

It's a shame what happened over at KS, and I was absolutely appalled and deeply ofended by those photos that were posted over there. This may not seem like a popular opinion, but I would really like to see these "Kingsnake Sucks" threads moved to the Web Watch & Cult Headquarters Forum here on Fauna, and keep this one for the discussion of Leopard Geckos. That website does not deserve the attention is getting here.

 

[Snakebyt]

I just cant believe that they left those pics up there for so long, great job of moderating if you ask me..

 

[riverjop]

I agree with Marcia!

Im done with this, sorry I even posted.
Rich, I also think get this out of here!!!

 

[Sybella]

Re: Re: Hi Adrian

I like a good fight just as much as the next person and Sybella can attest to that.

Adrian

LOL!!

 

[Sybella]

One thing to add before this gets dropped...

Wyvern posted to my request about discussing the issues over there. I'll post what led up to it.

Ginger posted "Please read," after cleaning up the mess from last night.

Please Read!

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Posted by: PHGinger at Sat Jun 5 14:07:38 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

First I would like to apologize for the assault of obscene pictures that some of you had to endure with your breakfast this morning. Unfortunately it took a while before one of us became aware of it. Most of the KS staff are volunteers and they have lives. We can't be here 24/7 to monitor for idiots. The abuse report only goes to one person and if that person is at work, the posts may be there for a while. Someone took the initiative to also write me and I saw it the second I signed on. When there is something really bad like this, please write as many folks as you can with the hopes that one of us will see it quickly. Every host has an email address just like their name like mine is [email protected]. Also watch AIM for us.

As for this latest onslaught of badgering the moderators, it will not be tolerated. Our volunteers put in a lot of hours so you can have a nice forum. If you feel a moderator has done something wrong, please feel free to write me, the staff director. But don't assault them on the boards. They cannot defend themselves. Our TOS clearly states that we will not discuss actions taken against someone either publically or with someone other than that individual. We also will not come on the board and defend every action we take.

As for recent actions that were taken, the individual has written us privately and has had the violation explained in detail. He has been and still is free to post the picture again following the rules if he so desires. It is not our fault that you have not seen them again.

If you are not familiar with our TOS, please read it so you understand the next time we take an action. We try to apply the TOS fairly and evenly across the board and just because a person has a commercial account or his website hosted with us, makes no difference. Everyone follows the same rules and exceptions are not made for those who spend money with us. That would not be fair.
Terms of Service

-----
Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger

I replied:

Thank you for cleaning things up, Ginger but...

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Posted by: Sybella at Sat Jun 5 16:47:58 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

I think it might be time to take some of what is being said into consideration. A lot of people don't want to come here any more and that is sad. Too much user-control is a bad thing but too much mod-control can be much worse.

Is it possible for you to set up a room for discussion on this, so that some compromise can be made?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ginger's response:

RE: Thank you for cleaning things up, Ginger but...

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Posted by: PHGinger at Sat Jun 5 17:20:41 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

No, we will not change TOS for this forum. TOS rules are applied equally and evenly throughout all forums.

As I said before, if someone has something that I need to know, they are free to email me privately.
-----
Ginger Sanders
Staff Director
Email PHGinger

To which I replied:

Many people here feel that their voices need to be heard,

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Posted by: Sybella at Sun Jun 6 12:17:19 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

...and not just shuffled to the recycle bin.

I'll be the first to admit that moderating a public forum is NOT easy. In a lot of cases, it's a lose-lose situation for the mods. If we don't act quick enough, we get flack...if we act at all, we get flack. It stinks but I know it goes a lot easier if I have member respect.

We are not asking for a change in TOS per say, just for a reasonable discussion so that the users and the mods can come to an understanding on a few things.

From what I see, there are more angry and frustrated users than there are happy and content ones...and unless something gives, we're all going to end up leaving. A lot of us already have left. As it is, those that stick around do so because we love the animals. We know that new people come here asking for help and need someone with experience to help them. Without experienced people, the new people will show up, not get answers and leave, killing the site little by little. But, as you can see the frustration is far outweighing anything else at times and it's chasing us off.

So, considering that these forums are designed to create business for the classifieds section, etc., wouldn't it be beneficial to host a discussion so that you retain your experienced members?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, Wyvern popped in:

RE: Many people here feel that their voices need to be heard,

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Posted by: phwyvern at Sun Jun 6 13:20:46 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

>>...and not just shuffled to the recycle bin.
>>

Which is exactly why there is a Feedback and Help Area setup on the main forum index page. It's there for a reason - for people to use it! To summarize the gist of that page:

If you are a registered member of the site and want to make suggestions or have concerns about our site or its policies, please use the Feedback Form (you will need to log in with your username and password).

If you just have a question or problem, the first thing to do is to look at our online help areas to see if you can find the answer there.

Getting off track from that now, it is notable of course that most problems tend to revolve around site violations and abuses. Below you can find information on how to address them.

*snippity snip of links to TOS, etc.*

And, my final response:

Thanks Wyvern!

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Posted by: Sybella at Sun Jun 6 16:16:20 2004 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

I didn't realize that this type of feedback would be well tollerated there either. I had asked for a specific place to voice our concerns but if we can use that room, that will help.


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At least Wyvern sounds like he/she is willing to listen...however, unless I have the wrong impression, this "feedback form" is probably just another email thing, where there isn't group discussion. I hope I'm not being "pacified" but it looks like there's some hope here.