OH MY! LOL A]
ALL I ever wanted was an honest accountability to the breeding loan that took place in regards to my male.
Fred.. As for what you ahve repetitively stated here in regards to lending boas out to people>> About all I can say is that I thought Rachel was a friend at the time I had done such. I never expected what has transpired since such time to come about in the least.
Now ya'll know that I am going to address what Rachel posted here. AND of course due to her looong post.. this one is also going to be long too. UGH. Here goes..LOL
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I received ONE e-mail from Lori Sunday night. I was so upset about it, I choose to wait to reply because what I wanted to say at that point was not going to be nice at all. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Imagine how upset I was when I started receiving phone calls that it had been discovered that there were possible clutching of baby boas that were sired from my male..
YET I had
NOT been contacted by
YOU telling me of such
AT ALL EVER.
AND this is
now 3 months
AFTER the June clutch was born even. In 3 months time
you NEVER tried to contact me in regards to the clutch,
NOT once ! I think that was
MORE than sufficient time for such to have taken place IMO.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When it comes to Albinoburmman, or whatever his name is,...</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
This is not from me and you need to take up with that person whatever it is they said/asked.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> The pic of Sidney and Aprodite (my 2 females) was being presented as the truth until I made a comment. So it's truth until I prove otherwise?</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
That picture was found by someone and "tossed" my way as a pic of my male and you female. Once you stated that it was NOT my male I went and searched for the pic and found that it had been placed into a post on RTB that was done in October of 2001. Whereas you did not get my male in your possession until December of 2001, then it was assumed by me that what you stated was correct
AND I immediately posted such in regards to the picture also for others to see.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So now Lori's boa was returned to her with mites? This is the first I have heard of that one. What next, RI, IBD? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Let me clarify this one for you some here. Once I got my male back
NO IBD or RI was noted as presnt , nor since such time has there ever been either. What was wrong was that he was under-weight, weighing less, than when he went into your possession. You yourself stated that you were going to feed him
A rat prior to "sending" him back to me. This male eats 2-3 HUGE rats at a feeding every 10 days time. as I had told you previously.. He is a PIG when it comes to feeding/eating. IF he was only fed one aka a rat at each feeding while with you,
then this would account for the weight-loss in him. I do NOT know what you specifically had as his feeding regime as I NEVER received any records back with him relating to such, nor any other records for things such as shed etc either.
In regards to mites.. When the male came back he was placed into quarantine immediately and was the
ONLY reptile in the room he was kept in also. Three days later he was found to have mites. At that time he was the
ONLY reptile I had in my possession, personal collection, rescues, breeders etc that had mites at all.
ALL I wanted or was interested in at the time was getting my male back from you, which had taken place. What point would there have been to ask you about his condition at all even. Therefore, I treated his "issues" and moved on from there..expecting to not hear from you until such time that there was any clutching which came about from being sired by my male. C'mon.. We
ALL know that the bridges between the two of us were burnt out at that point and the
ONLY thing that would have come about from me contacting you would have been more bridge burning so to say. Would have accomplished absolutely nothing IMO.
.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">As far as the situation currently at hand, that is no one's business except Lori and me. If it had been kept that way, it could have easily been worked out by now. I know I said in an e-mail to Lori, that she was getting nothing from me, but that was also written in a time where my name had just been smeared all over the web. I plan on giving her an offer to see if WE can work this out. Notice I said WE, as in Lori and I, not everyone on the web that has an opinion. Although, knowing Lori, it will probably be posted everywhere anyway (NOTE: Not posting everywhere would be beneficial to working things out). Anyway, I never said that there was no deal, I simply said there was not a deal for a 50/50 split. It was actually quite nonchalant. It was simply for SOME of the babies. I specifically remember thinking how strange it was after she left, to leave him here without a clearly defined percentage. In my mind, this is how I got set up. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Your correct in one thing here. I believe the wording used was actually half..not 50/50. None the less, it means the same thing when you "slice it up". We even went over this multiple times in regards to any clutches that were born as a result of the breeding with my male. I believe it was done in pm's even on RTB.
WHY would I lend out a male that could have sired clutches with my females just to take a 50% loss on the resulting babies when I could have bred him with my females and had 100% of the clutch. That wouldn't make any sense to do IMO. I was doing you a favor in lending the male to you for the purpose of breeding him to your females.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I never even asked to borrow this snake! She had posted a pic of him, I commented on how beautiful I thought he was, and Lori knowing I had all females at the time, and no males, OFFERED him to me. She said he had already bred with her females, and she was sure they would be gravid by then, but he was still going. So considering she was already coming this way to bring me some rescues, she brought him along too. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
After I had posted a pic of him ol you did request to borrow him for breeding your females. I even took a couple of weeks time in deciding whether to lend him out for such or not. As I was coming down your way with some rescues in December it was agreed that would be when you got him for breeding your females.
As far as him having bred with my females, nah uh. He had been purchased from someone as a "pair"
[ they wouldn't split the two up and I only wanted the male actually, so I had to purchase them both to get the male even, which is what I did.] He never even got near any of my other females , or snakes for that matter, since I received him on through when you took possession of him from me for breeding your females. I had received him in November 2001, on the 6th I beleive ,along with the female I bought with him. He was placed into a quarantine along with the female I got with him as they had previously lived together before I got him anyways. He was breeding with that female and had been noted as being a "breeding machine" by his previous owner, which is what I also saw in him prior to your obtaining him from me for breeding purposes.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> He had bred with 2 of my females over the course of 2 months, and then all together, stopped. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
No guarantees were ever made as to how many females he would actually breed. When you asked how many you could breed him to, I told you no more than 4 please.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">When Lori dropped him off, she said she would pick him up on her next trip in FEB!! Well, Feb came and went, and she hadn't made the trip yet. At that point, I didn't mind because she was my friend. But once she did finally start her trip in late March or Early April (can't remember offhand exactly when), she was again supposed to stop by to drop off some rescues, and this time pick up her boa. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Umm.. I left on that trip out on February 22, 2002 actually. I returned during the first week of April 2002.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">
Next thing I know, Lori is having a fit because there were some lizards in DE that she and another wanted that I had already contacted the guy about taking in. I wasn't planning on keeping them all, and was more than willing to have Lori take her picks, and even told the guy with the lizards about her. I offered to go get the lizards so she had one less stop along the way, but all she thought was this was my way of getting what I wanted. Talk about paranoid when you can't even trust your friends that are trying to do you a favor. She wanted them all, felt I had no right to any of them, and felt I was stepping on her toes. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Not that this is even relative to the issue involving the possible clutches sired by my male , BUT anyways..
The only lizard I had wanted for myself was the B&W Tegu actually for my education program in reptiles I do. Upon contacting the owner he informed me that he also had some beardies and also a collared lizard as well. I informed him that I knew of someone in VT. that was looking for beardies for their education program and would take any others for my own program as well. He also stated that he had collared lizrd that he was looking for a new home for as well. I told him if he could not find a new home for the collared then I would also take that one in as well as I do keep them.
Where did ALL those lizards wind up ? With Rachel. What seems to have happened with them ? Apparently they may have been posted on her site for the purpose of adopting them out to new homes. Such was seen by the posting of available adoptions on her site that included a B&W Tegu and also some beardies shortly after all that took place.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Lizards Needing Homes!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Board Police ( - 138.89.202.117) on Wednesday, May 1, 2002 - 12:36 am:
Time for everyone interested in adopting to check out the site! I just updated it with three new reptiles available for adoption now. I'm expecting some Bearded Dragons and a Black and White Tegu by next week, so more is on the way! Spread the word if you know of anyone that may be interested in adopting! Due to low response, adoption applications are now allowed to be submitted online through e-mail again. But please keep in mind, if the app is sent incomplete, it will be deleted, and you must resumbit your app COMPLETELY all over again. Sorry, but I don't have the time to piece together incomplete apps. Hope to hear from you!
Thanks,
Rachel Rodgers
All Species Reptile- Rescue & Adoptions
Mice-On-Ice, Adoption Connection Administrator
Check out our website for animals available for adoption, the adoption application, and surrender information
All Species Reptile Rescue " </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Do I really need to check and see if I still have any of the emails in my box regarding the lizards that I exchanged with the owner of them ?
This is one of the problems that had come up in relation to Rachel that a multitude of people were comlaining about on MOI and elsewhere also. Many of the posts relative to the complaining were deleted on MOI shortly after they had been posted. Some were not and can be seen here on these copies of the posts that were made on MOI by the people....
<a href="http://www.koalaskritters.net/ALLSPECIERESCUE.html" target='_blank'>http://www.koalaskritters.net/ALLSPECIERESCUE.html</a>
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> she got greedy over rescue animals.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
Hmm.. I have actually turned down rescues at times and refer them to other people quite often that do rescue. I wouldn't term wanting the B&W Tegu for education as greed on my part at all IMO. If I was being greedy then
WHY would I have asked about the beardies for someone else located in VT and also offered to deliver them too even ? I didn't have any beardies at the time and seeing as the guy also had more than just the two that the person in VT was looking for.. I also inquired on them as well. I would rather take a reptile in as an adoption or rescue for myself and what I do..ie keeping and/or education, than purchase them if need be when they are available and need a new home. I see nothing wrong in that. In fact after that fiasco with those lizards I went and purchased beardies while on the road still down in GA and also looked for a B&W Tegu even as it had been noted that Rachel had gone and picked up the lizards herself that were involved in all this. hmm...
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Since SHE wasn't replying to any of my e-mails, I sent one to her (or posted, can't remember) saying I would ship her boa back to her in about 2 weeks to allow for her to get back from her trip.</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
There were two emails that came through at that time in which the contents of such Rachel was asking me to go to MOI and defend her in regards to the complaints/ accusations that were being posted in regards to her "grabbing" all the listed adoptions on MOI. I answered 1 of the emails and I beleive that I just told her that I had seen what had been posted on MOI already. Sorry, but at that point I also thought the same thing in relation to what people were saying and also even made a post on MOI that I was NOT connected with Rachel in the manner that some thought as working for her in rescue. I felt that it was best to leave her emails alone and not add any further "downside" to what was being done/reflected on the MOI postings by people by replying to Rachel that i thought the same thing as well.
As far as the shipping of my snake back to me from Rachel, she stated that she was going to ship him back in two weeks time. That is what I expected to take place then. I also informed my husband of such and told him to be expecting the male to come in a shipment from Rachel in about two weeks time as she had said he would be. FYI.. My husband is the one that actually handles most , if not all, of the shipments coming and going from my place in regards to reptiles. When I got home about a three weeks
after Rachel had said she would ship my male back to me in two weeks and still my male had not been shipped..
I was pi$$ed to say the least ! I never once told her to NOT ship my male back as she had stated she would be in two weeks time. Even after a couple weeks after having returned home my male had still not been shipped back to me at all. I was being asked on a daily basis by quite a few people if I had received my male from Rachel yet for a couple of weeks time at that point. Some contact with Rachel at this point related that she was now going to ship my male back to me and that she was also going to feed him a rat prior to doing such also. I told her to not feed my male due to the shipping and possible regurge etc. I was NOT 100% comfortable with waiting on yet another promised shipment of my male back to me at this point and the following took place...
Billy offered to go to her home and retrieve my male for me [ and after many such offers to do such for at least a week] I told him to go right ahead and do such. I also sent Rachel an email telling her to NOT ship my male at this time and that Billy would be coming to pick him up. In conversing with Billy in regards to my male being picked up and that every time that he set forth for a date and time for such was being "shot down" by Rachel...I told him to just tell her that he was coming on a certain date and time and it didn't matter even whether she was there to meet up with him or her husband, and to just get my male boa back for me is all.
I honored her wishes to not stop by her home to pick up my male boa, I also expected that my male would be shipped as promised too.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I never got an e-mail saying, "I'm home now, you can ship him out this day".</td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
None was needed for such to take place. I never said to not ship him back or to wait for my return to do such either. When I was told he was being shipped in two weeks time.
That is what I expected to take place, nothing more, nothing less.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">even though she was about 2 months behind on her trip where she was supposed to pick up. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I wasn't behind on any trip as far as time was concerned for me. I left in February as planned and if the male needed to be picked up for some reason on my way down rather than on my way up. such should have been stated by you to me. As it was.. I was to stop at your place on the way back and was going to drop off some rescues to you that you were taking in which were being picked up down south
and would pick up the male on the way back at that point at the same time.Once all the bs took place in regards to you and you stated that you did not want me to stop at your place to pick up my male, I merely extended my trip in length and arrived home the following month is all. Had I still needed to come by your home to pick up my male on the way back then I would have not done such in regards to time frame is all. Regardless of when I returned home....
I expected that my male was to be shipped back in a two week time frame as promised and he was indeed NOT.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Last, but not least, to address people accusing me of selling rescues. I charge adoption fees. So does Lori. Lori actually charges more than I do, but somehow I am selling, and she is not. Go figure. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
HMM.. If you are refering to Iguana fees. Then take note of this. I place a fee on the page with a listing. I do
NOT collect a fee though upon adoption of the Iguana at all. I do that in order to alleviate any/all of the type of persons from contacting me to adopt an Iguana that are not sincere and/or really do not want the Iguana and are looking to just get one is all basically. As you know..Iguanas are NOT an easy reptile to be keeping to say the least. NOR are they "cheap" to keep either. Doing that, posting an adoption fee with the listings, has alleviated the mess of dealing with people that are not sincere in wanting to adopt an Iguana I have found. There currently is one Iguana that does not belong to me listed on my page. He is residing with me though and his fee is set by the rescue which he belongs to and needs to be paid upon his adoption. The fee would then be handed over to the rescue whom he actually belongs to at that point. I believe it even states on my web page that he belongs to another rescue and not me actaully even. The rescue he belongs to is www.mrsreptiles.com I have handled other adoptions for Judy of mrs and have handed over her fee related to such when handling one of her adoptions to her in full. I even paid one of her adoption fees for someone else out of my own monies in regards to one of the adoptions I handled of her rescue Iguana too. Here's a copy of an email that i send out to anyone that inquires of an Iguana from me [ this is taken from a recent one I sent out a month or so ago].
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Copy from email :
They do have adoption fees on them but I am more interested in finding them a good home, not so much the funds. Anything that could be paid toward what it has cost us to maintain them would be appreciated however { I never hold anyone to what is listed on an Iggy adoption fee ;}]. With their diet being fresh greens etc it costs us quite a bit here housing iguanas. They are usually in the area of $35 shipping for one Iguana btw. So that will cost you funds. I'll have to check on what shipping two would be though for you. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
The snakes I handled went out from me in adoption at no fee. I have as yet to collect any fees on the adoption of any reptile I have personally placed through rescue/adoption. I did list a couple of snakes , boas, on my site for adoption with a fee though previously. The fee was to cover my cost in rehabbing the boas for health problems and their ensuing vet bills that came from doing such. The fees though did not cover even 50% of the cost I incurred in their rehabbing that I had listed on them. Those boas were pulled from available adoption when one of them had babies. I do not sex my rescues here and it was believed that both were females and since they ahd come in together and also been housed together previous to coming to me, I housed them together while here. The female , one that turned out to be such, was then rehabbes for weight-gain. We even thought we were going to lose her due to the weight-loss from her having babies but she has pulled through fine and is putting her weight back on that she needs to at this point even.
The montiors listed on my page are NOT housed with me nor are they mine even in rescue. That is noted on the page for them even. Those are with a rescuer in NY and anyone wanting to adopt them is given the information to contact the rescuer that has them.
I do allthough charge any/all shipping charges that are incurred with any adoption which I deal with personally.
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Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I had to bathe a 10ft aggressive boa that had pooed all over himself. The hisses were so loud you could hear it in the other room. She didn't even come look when we asked. </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
ROFLMFAO!! Rachel and her husband were in a different room working with that snake than I was in at her home. There's no way I would have heard the snake hissing at all LMAO Furthermore, I also probably never heard them ask me to come look if they had asked me to. hahahaha
Sorry, BUT I for one find this quite hilarious ! Here's why... For those of you who do not know me personally.. I am completely deaf in one ear and partially in the other. I do NOT even hear my own snakes when they hiss most of the time ! LOL. On occasion I will hear one of them that is in the same room as me AND that's if they are hissing
REALLY LOUD at that. I couldn't even begin to tell anyone just how many times I have actually been struck at and bitten by a snake
AFTER it has given out a warning hiss that i did not hear at all due to my loss of hearing..LOL. Many times when handling any of my snakes I have had others such as my husband or children point out to me that the snake is hissing at me even when I did not hear it doing such at all. Due to this impediment I for one have had to learn to NOT just handle any ole snake I'd like to and wait until I get to know the snake better in the area of "reading" it's upcoming action
such as striking at me by it's body language.
I have been with my husband for 20 years now and he even still tries to talk to me from another room and if anyone should know that I will most likely not hear from another room.. it is him. Rachel knows of this hearing loss that I have even. I have not hidden it from others to say the least at all. LOL
GEESH! Maybe that has something to do with why I keep a dog in my home that is an aide to me in the area of hearing. LOL
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh, I'm sorry, she also handled a regular burm AFTER I took him out and saw how tame he was. She ended up taking him with her, and tried switching the adoption fees with another snake so she could pay a lower fee (the fees were from the shelter that Eddie got them from, not from me). </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I try to not handle reptiles too much when traveling with them at all. I for one see doing such as an added stress to them and prefer to wait until they arrive back home with me and have had time to settle in some before doing such with them. As for the burm, It had been decided that the male was coming home with me prior to arriving at Rachel's home and had already been set up with Eddie even. Due to the vast amount of monies spent on that trip in routing the rescues around that were picked up for rachel by myself. It was suggested by Eddie that the adoption fee frm the shelter be partially covered by adding 1/2 of it to the females fee that was left with Rachel. That was asked in order to help cover some of the gas monies expense I had incurred in transporting the rescues I had transported for Rachel at no cost to her from NC to NJ. The amount being in question was $35, nothing near what the cost of gas was in transporting the rescues that I brought to her from NC to NJ.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here's another one. Pics of mine are now being shown all over the place as proof. I can easily recognize my snake at a glance, but Lori mistakes mine for hers? How often do you look at your snake Lori? I can understand Eddie making the mistake considering he hasn't seen either snake, but you mistake yours for mine? </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
1 pic was shown ol that I know of that you are refering to here. The pic s not a good shot of the two snakes, the bottom one can not be fully seen in the pic very well at all. Daily to answer your question. The pic was posted by someone as my male and your female, YET when you stated that it was not my male.. I researched and found that it probably was not and even stated such to be the case in posts. LOL. Not only has eddie seen my male BUT he has also had the pleasure ..lol.. of being spurred by him as well.
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The rest of this will be worked out with Lori privately through e-mail. Of course, Lori has to reply to work it out </td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'>
I have received an email from Rachel where she has noted that the clutch born from her female in June was sired by my male. Her offer to compensate now at this time, AFTER, I found out about the clutch being born AND she has already sold ALL the babies also...is unacceptable from my standpoint and she shall receive an email stating such as well also from me.
DANG! This is looooong ! Sorry but I tried to address most if not all of her post in this one post. I'm even wondering if it will actually post in just one submit even at this point...I'll find out I guess....
Not to mention, so many people who KNOW SO MUCH about herps!! Many thanks to everyone for gawking over my baby boas (and Mike for buying a couple