Leopard Gecko Registry; Unneeded Bureaucracy?

[Intense Herpetoculture]

I've been lurking around on the net lately, and something popped up recently. It is called the Leopard Gecko Registry (LGR). The question I'm posing to everyone is, “Why in the world would you want to put such a bureaucracy in place?”

Sure, they is a huge list of breeders reproducing leopard geckos, including various (seems unlimited) color and physical morphs. They often sale similar animals under different names. Even quite different animals under the same name. I'm sure it would be nice to streamline names for the morphs, selecting certain traits that would set standards for each unique herpetocultive ambition. This is just the wrong place to do it. The proper place would be in reference materials; maybe a decent book overwhelmingly looked to by the hobby. I see the up side and perhaps the original reason for such a creation of a forum. It would allow parentage of offspring to be easily looked up, etc. Sort of sounds like the AKC, but for leopard geckos.

In a hobby where we are driven by pure interest in these animals, for whatever reason, why would we even dare to create such a registry? In effect you are just creating more work for yourself (paperwork, ehh) and more red tape for future herpetoculturists wanting to get started with their own ideas. Right now it is obvious that the LGR has no power in the reptile world, but if the conditions are right the LGR could become the next big thing in the leo world. In effect, you would be taking power out of your hands and putting it in someone else.

We already have system in place to do practically everyone the LGR was created for. It's called the free market. It dictates what each morph looks like and if accurate & detailed records are needed for a breeder to sell their stock. I personally like this system best because it shows the true nature of the product that is being offered. Luckily the LGR is also at the door of the free market and I'm sure that in a sort while it will become defunct.

With that being said, I have a feeling that while the LGR was created out of a good idea. It's nothing more then a hungry power trip for those who created it, and perhaps even those that are members. Time is better put somewhere else and with something much more creative.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Justyn, I agree that this is an unneeded entity.
This is the quote that I agree with most.

In effect, you would be taking power out of your hands and putting it in someone else.

I'm sure that Stephanie had good intentions but I am the one who attaches my name to the animals that I sell. I am the one who stands behind them and I am the one who makes sure that when someone buys an animal from me, they are happy. I don't think that any certificate from a third party is going to do that.

Stephanie, this is not a dig at you, it is just the reasoning in why I CHOOSE not to participate in your program.

 

[The NY Gecko]

agreed. theres a reason for free enterprise. and although i whole heartedly disagree with out sourcing, i feel that every other aspect of free enterprise is great. we dont need a system of checks and balances outside of the market consumers and breeders themselves. this would in short limit what breeders could call theyre morphs due to paperwork and like stated above would become a real pain in the arse. i dont know if the people in charge were looking for a power trip. perhaps the intentions were good but the overall plan on how to carry out those intentions is a little flawed.

 

[montezuma]

I have a feeling that while the LGR was created out of a good idea. It's nothing more then a hungry power trip for those who created itQUOTE]

I agree with you on everything but this. I feel it was created out of the desire to generate income off of the industry... luckily most people feel the $5 is best spent towards feeding the geckos instead of getting a piece of paper that says they spent $5 to post a classified ad.

 

[PaulSage]

I appreciate the idea and all, it's just that I keep good records of my own and the time involved with registering records with another entity just doesn't seem worthwhile to me. Same thing with the Cornsnake Registry. I could see it being more valuable/worthwhile with something like the ball python or bearded dragon market however.

 

[WindyO]

The only thing that i like about the idea is being able to see the heritage of breeders. Someone can't say their breeders are from so and so. There would be documented proof of bloodlines. You could also see what the lines look like back one generation to the next.

Still i agree with everyone else that while the price seems modest it is unnecessary. You would be giving them too much control in away. It would be nice to be able to find all of the websites in one place though. My wife erased my bookmarks once and it must have taken me 4 hours and a couple of searches to find them again.

 

[coyote]

I don't know. Cornsnake people now have a registry. And many of us think it's a whiz bang great idea.

 

[KelliH]

It's nothing more then a hungry power trip for those who created it, and perhaps even those that are members.

Or perhaps just another place to have a link to one's website.

No tripping over here.

Seriously though.. it's not a bad idea. Will it work, in the long run? Dunno.

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

yeah, my only concern would be with it working, not with the concept. In order for it to work 100% it would require 100% participation, which we all know from just the few posts here, won't happen.

I'm with Kelli in that it is a nice spot to have a link, and also, as a buyer, its a nice spot to go and see the wares of multiple sellers all in one spot...

 

[montezuma]

I'm with Kelli in that it is a nice spot to have a link, and also, as a buyer, its a nice spot to go and see the wares of multiple sellers all in one spot...

That was already established... see Herpportal

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

That was already established... see Herpportal

Huzzah!!!! I had forgotten that actually, leaky brain syndrom

 

[Storm55]

Actually, I don't think the leopard gecko registry is as much of a control attempt as people seem to be thinking. An example of a currently successful registry is the AKC (American Kennel Club.) Dog breeders are free to breed however they see fit. They choose their own breedings, and they make all of the other choices involving their dogs and puppies such as price, contract terms, etc. The control remains with the breeders. All the AKC does it ensure the dog is purebred, based on the pedigree. The only thing AKC papers prove is that the dog does in fact come from two registered parents. So, I think that the creators of the leopard gecko registry are only interested in "papering" geckos to keep track of lineage, or pedigrees. It would be a way to look up your gecko and see the parents, grandparents, etc.

My stance on the issue however is that it just cannot work. Comparing it with AKC again, AKC is an organization that has been around for a very long time. AKC papers are important to many people buying a dog, not only to prove the dog's pedigree, but also to take part in the many dog activities AKC has to offer. There is a real incentive to a breeder to register a dog for papers, and incentive to a buyer to look for a puppy with papers.

The problem is, there is simply not much incentive to register a gecko. Breeders have been doing just fine on their own. There aren't "breeds" of leoperd geckos. Most breeders creatively and selectively breed their animals in order to replicate a certain trait, or create stronger traits, whatever those traits might be. In my opinion, that's one of the things that makes breeding these animals so fascinating. We don't need to worry about keeping breeds true, as in the dog world. Many times, we actually want to cross strains to see what they can produce. Also, there aren't gecko shows, or gecko sports that require papers for participation, which is just another reason that registering a gecko does not concern breeders and owners, as it might in another species like a cat or dog.

Anyway, that's a bit of my feelings on the subject of the registry. It's a good intention, but just not feasible at this time when it comes to leopard geckos.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I am the one who attaches my name to the animals that I sell. I am the one who stands behind them and I am the one who makes sure that when someone buys an animal from me, they are happy. I don't think that any certificate from a third party is going to do that.

I agree 100%, Jeremy. Although I think the Leopard Gecko Registry is a GREAT idea, the unfortunate aspect is that there are aren't that many 'legitimate' LG breeders and a whole lot of hobbyists and rogue wannabe's that would not participate in this program.

As with the AKC, there a many people who want registered purebred dogs and don't mind spending the money for that guarantee. However, there are a probably more people that have little mixed-breed mutts that they have as loving little pets.

 

[Shelley1063]

a whole lot of hobbyists and rogue wannabe's that would not participate in this program

Then again, I'd bet there are a lot of us Hobbyists that would participate if the program was worthwhile. I found the idea very interesting when it began, but I too saw a lot of problems. As someone fairly new to all this, I find it quite frustrating that even the experts in the field can't seem to agree on some of the most basic of standards. Lord, I don't know how many different opinions I've seen on something as simple as what percentage of orange does it take to qualify a leo as a "carrot tail" and is that broken color or unbroken LOL Or how many spots are the max a leo can have and still be considered a "Hypo"? etc. Until the simpliest things like these can be agreed on by the industry as a whole, then something like the LGR never stands a chance.

It's a good intention, but just not feasible at this time

I totally agree with this statement

 

[PaulSage]

I agree 100%, Jeremy. Although I think the Leopard Gecko Registry is a GREAT idea, the unfortunate aspect is that there are aren't that many 'legitimate' LG breeders and a whole lot of hobbyists and rogue wannabe's that would not participate in this program.

Marcia, I think that's a great point. Honestly. But as one of those "wannabes", I would most likely jump on the registry bandwagon if I saw a significant amount of the established/reputable breeders doing so. That's not meant to contradict my previous post--I'm just saying that as a newbie/wannabe/wet-behind-the-ears gecko breeder, I wouldn't feel compelled to register my animals unless the bigger breeders started doing it first.

 

[Cat_72]

Actually, I don't think the leopard gecko registry is as much of a control attempt as people seem to be thinking. An example of a currently successful registry is the AKC (American Kennel Club.) Dog breeders are free to breed however they see fit. They choose their own breedings, and they make all of the other choices involving their dogs and puppies such as price, contract terms, etc. The control remains with the breeders. All the AKC does it ensure the dog is purebred, based on the pedigree. The only thing AKC papers prove is that the dog does in fact come from two registered parents. So, I think that the creators of the leopard gecko registry are only interested in "papering" geckos to keep track of lineage, or pedigrees. It would be a way to look up your gecko and see the parents, grandparents, etc.

I'm going to guess (no offense intended in ANY WAY) that you haven't had a whole lot of experience with AKC or their methods. The AKC has been going downhill for many years now, especially after some of the newer RESTRICTIONS they have placed on breeders. Requiring DNA testing on male dogs is the latest I know of (at the breeders cost), limiting the number of litters you can produce out of any given male dog, and there's many more stipulations now attached to even registering a litter, all of which are well-intended, but they are slowly but surely taking a lot of the control out of the breeders' hands. They can also send inspectors out to review your paperwork and conditions, and if something isn't they way they want it done, POOF! now none of your dogs are registered, and you can no longer even be allowed to use AKC. You've just lost all of those fees you paid, and have nothing to show for it.

AKC papers also will never "prove" you are getting anything from registered parents. I know of people will have registered a litter, registering as having 8 puppies in the litter when there are only 2 (if any), and then slap those "extra" papers on other puppies that are in no way related to the original puppies. Not to mention that even if they are registered, it in no way guarantees quality of the animal....I've seen some of the poorest quality dogs that are AKC registered. People buy these puppies thinking beause they are registered, breed them, and pop out with Doberman puppies that look like Akitas....but they must be purebred and quality because they have "papers".

There are several new dog registries that have cropped up whose requirements are much more "lax" than the AKC, and those papers mean even less.

I don't know, I really like the idea if it were to stay as simple as it is originally designed, but too often things like this leave behind the well meant intentions and grow into their own monster. It seems to me that the Leo community in general is a pretty tight-knit and good bunch of people, and doesn't need this sort of intervention and regulation. But then I could be way off base.....but I felt the need to put my 2 cents in on my opinion of the AKC in general.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

as one of those "wannabes", I would most likely jump on the registry bandwagon if I saw a significant amount of the established/reputable breeders doing so.

After re-reading my comment, I realized it sounded condescending... but that's not what I intended. Sorry! What I meant was that there are just too many people out there that buy their geckos from 'Joe Blow', Petco, Petsmart, local reptile swap meets, and rescues, that could care less about the gecko's pedigree. Many of the geckos I have were acquired that very same way, and I have no clue as to their actual bloodlines.

The reason I am not jumping on the registry bandwagon is because I am pessimistic about how accurate it can be. Heck, I suppose anyone could register one of their rescues as coming from Albey's stock (example) if they wanted to get a registration for it. Gecko bloodlines are too diluted (or should I say 'polluted') to accurately keep track of.

When I purchase a gecko, I am always interested in it's lineage... but the main reason I buy is because I just plain old like the gecko and it's breeder has a good reputation.

 

[The NY Gecko]

When I purchase a gecko, I am always interested in it's lineage... but the main reason I buy is because I just plain old like the gecko and it's breeder has a good reputation.

which is why i dont buy or ever will anything from reptile auction or any place buy the big guys, such as you Marcia or Dan L. or Kelli. For the very reason you stated, except ill flat out say this, people can, will,and do lie about the origins of their animals or the bloodlines just to make a quick buck. for the simple fact of who oyu guysa re and what your reputation is its just unfathomable for me to thin kyou would do such a thing. not giving credit where it sint due am i?

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

I can only say that I am not on the bandwagon to pay someone else to decide what I have.

I think its a good idea tos ome point like the AKC but there are years of preface to the ACK beginnings and documentation for years of breedings etc.

Id do it if it was free or by donation but not in the way of I have to pay you... and that is totally wrong of me since I pay the AKC for registrations.....

 

[Gecko_Den]

The reason I am not jumping on the registry bandwagon is because I am pessimistic about how accurate it can be. Heck, I suppose anyone could register one of their rescues as coming from Albey's stock (example) if they wanted to get a registration for it. Gecko bloodlines are too diluted (or should I say 'polluted') to accurately keep track of.

I'm confused Marcia(like that's hard to believe), but aren't you registered breeder #0016 on the Leopard Gecko Registry? Doesn't that mean you bought into the idea, or is it just a free link?