Bad Guy LLL Reptile-Beware!

[Alex G]

Eric, did you ever consider buying more things with your $80 credit, and then asking about shipping? It seems to me LLL was very generous in their credit to you, and you could've just added maybe another animal or more supplies to reach the $80. Then you'd still have to pay shipping, but it'd likely be a much better deal.

 

[Eric Favez]

What is he insulting David?? My typing skills?? Im sorry I didnt go to college and all just to run a pet store that is ran like a used car lot. I wonder...does he know how much money I make a year?? David e-mail me the pms please...hell IDK if i will even understand them but ill give it a shot

 

[LauraB]

I'm not quite sure why they are being posted. Why not post your experiences on an existing thread or start your own thread?

Because this isan existing thread and in accordance with BOI policy & procedure, posts pertaining to any one individual or business are to be placed in existing threads, regardless of whether those posts are positive or negative. I'm sure you already know that.

 

[DavidBeard]

Eric, did you ever consider buying more things with your $80 credit, and then asking about shipping? It seems to me LLL was very generous in their credit to you, and you could've just added maybe another animal or more supplies to reach the $80. Then you'd still have to pay shipping, but it'd likely be a much better deal.

Wait, so you think he should have to spend another $40 to obtain the credit he was owed? I am simply in awe at the amount of people who think this is acceptable. Wow. Just wow.

 

[DavidBeard]

Because this isan existing thread and in accordance with BOI policy & procedure, posts pertaining to any one individual or business are to be placed in existing threads, regardless of whether those posts are positive or negative. I'm sure you already know that.

Sorry, I meant an existing good guy thread.

 

[DavidBeard]

Here are the PMs from Scott that I have received today.....

David,

First, I appreciate you defending your friend, and your personal knowledge of the gecko, and the situation. That being said, we need to clarify a few things:

First - don't call someone a liar when there was no intention behind it. I know you don't know me, but let's be clear on something. I have NO reason to lie. I called our warehouse TODAY when I saw this post. I asked our girls what happened, and the time frame. They had EXACT dates written on his invoice. Now, that being said - it is CERTAINLY possible that they either made an error, or, they just didn't mark the first phone call down. If that is the case, as I told your friend, it is an HONEST mistake. However, the FACT is still this. The gecko did NOT show up looking infested. He told our girls this. Hell - he told the BOI this. He didn't notice an issue right away, as it was not infested upon arrival to the naked eye. We LOOK for this when we pack them - regardless if you believe it or not. Keep in mind - we all love reptiles over here too....

2nd - You are RIGHT. It is NOT ok to sell a "mite infested" animal of any sort. I did NOT say this, nor would I ever condone it. That is plain stupid. You know this. You saying this on the board like it is the norm at LLL is inflamatory, and honestly pointless. It is simply not the case. ALL I said was that wild caught Uroplatus, and other wild caught geckos commonly come in with red mites. We know this. We LOOK for it, and we treat them accordingly. I guarantee you this - I don't know you, but I have seen more Uroplatus than most anyone in the US. I am very, very familiar with the treatment of these mites. I wasn't asking if it was "ok" to treat them with reptile relief. Bottom line - there are BETTER, less stressful ways to do this, and this ABSOLUTELY will increase stress on the gecko. In that original picture of his gecko - besides the bugs, the gecko looks very, very healthy. You being an avid keeper - I am sure you can see that as well, which is probably why your friend chose to take on the issue.

On your friend's receipt - that he got WITH his animal, and on our website, it absolutely is clear. Shipping is NOT refundable, and not covered for any reason. In this case, AFTER our written guarantee, your friend called. He COULD have asked to return it had he called within the guaranteed time. He chose to treat it, and wait - regardless of the exact dates. Knowing this, I am sure that is why him and Kate were able to work out what they both thought was a FAIR credit. The only problem here is that your friend thought shipping would be free. That is what this boils down to. And now, because shipping is not free, he, and you, have chosen to speak up on the BOI. I don't need to defend us here. There are plenty here who know our business well enough to stand up for us. I choose to because I like to make every effort with every customer. Do you get that? Do you realize that is why I just wrote you this novel?

I sure hope so. I am guessing that no matter what I say here, we are not going to get anywhere, and you will remain with your opinions. But myself, and the many, many hard working people at our company will continue to do everything possible to help our customers in the future. Unfortunately, as the old saying goes, you can't please everyone. But when you agree to take an $80 dollar store credit, and then want an additional $35 dollars to cover shipping after the fact, and then take it to the BOI - there is little I can do. I will see how your friend responds, and see if there is anything further I can / will do for him then.

Good luck with your reptiles either way. Nothing here is personal against you or your friend. I would hope you both keep it on a professional level as well.

 

[DavidBeard]

My response:

Look at it this way....is your "policy" of not refunding shipping (note that Eric never asked for a refund, just that you all cover shipping since it was YOUR mistake that caused the animal's death in the first place) worth losing business over?

Because of how your company has handled this situation, you have undoubtedly lost a good amount of business. Business that no doubt will exceed $40. Had you all just covered the shipping expense, I'm sure Eric would have been more than pleased and possibly even ordered from you again. He told me that everyone deserves a second chance and that he was going to give your company another shot to make things right. Thats why he wanted to order more animals from you to cash in his credit.

Honestly, I think your policies are merely a way to escape responsibility from instances such as this where YOU clearly are at fault for the loss of life and monetary means without looking like total scumbags. You can stick to your guns and hide behind policies all day long.....but people see through the BS and realize the underlying message in what you're saying.

You seem to be heavy on excuses and short on results. I find that to be disappointing. I also could not care less how many people will defend you, that does not change the facts of this particular experience one bit.

I was in the market for some Tree Frogs myself, and was ready and willing to place a sizeable order with your company if the issues with Eric were resolved smoothly. But since that has not been the case, my money will be spent elsewhere.....can you see now that simply absorbing the $40 for shipping would have been more beneficial than not doing so and hiding behind a silly policy?

LLL's response:

Like I said in the original post - I was pretty sure we weren't going to come to a satisfactory conclusion here. We completely disagree on this situation. You seem to have a clearer head than your friend (maybe you are older, more educated, not sure), but either way, that is why I bothered to email you.

The bottom line is this - the $80 dollars was WAY outside of our written guarantee - regardless of the time frame. Here is the fact - he did not contact us 2 days after he got the gecko. What Kate did for him was WAY more than fair. YES, he HAS to pay for shipping. Of course he does. He can do whatever he wants with the $80 dollars.. I find it hard to believe that someone in your shoes wouldn't agree, but it is apparent that we will both agree to disagree here. We at LLL would absolutely rather lose business than give in to someone who simply chose to ignore our written guarantee, ignore calling us for advice, and taking on the problem themselves. The animal didn't show up with any apparent issues, and we didn't sell it "mite infested". You know this to be the case. It also didn't arrive DOA, and, it looked perfectly healthy other than the mites that he found at some point. It doesn't matter when he found them, as they weren't apparent when the gecko arrived, right? He would have called immediately had that been the case. We are open 7 days a week. Some companies would tell him that it was well past the guarantee, and too bad, so sad. That is what the BOI is for - companies or breeders who outright don't live up to their policies. We went outside of our guarantee here, and it still isn't enough. In this case, he agreed on a store credit, and then thought paying shipping was unfair. At that point, this blew up, well beyond what was necessary. Then, name calling started.

It really doesn't matter now. I made the effort, with both of you. The credit was more than fair. Way more than fair. The animal didn't die from mites. Period. And if you are into geckos as much as you say you are, then you know this to be the fact.

I do appreciate your response, for what it is worth. You must at least realize that I am a pretty reasonable person, and am happy to still discuss this with your friend. But his first email again called me a liar. Not cool, and really shows that he is about 17 years old. If I am off on that, I would be shocked. If your friend wants to go over the time frame with me, and see if there is something to it, I am more than willing to listen and discuss it. Otherwise, I wish you both the best of luck in the herp hobby. Take care, and have a great New Years

Scott
LLLReptile & Supply

My (final) response:

No, Scott...what is "not cool" are your continued insults. If you do not have the courage to say these things to Eric yourself, do not send them to me. I will not abide by your tactics nor will I continue to banter with you. Please consider this our last correspondence from this point out and do not contact me further. Any other private messages will simply be deleted from this point on. Understood? Thanks.

 

[LLLReptile]

I appreciate you posting those David, as I have nothing to hide there. I wouldn't have put it in a message to you if I was worried about that....

As for this situation - it is done. Here is Eric's ONLY email response to my request of a time-frame break down so he and I could calmly discuss it:

"Ok heres the deal....I am done with you! Yes it all boils down to shipping...if you were gonna meet me half way than lets see...I have already paid $40 in shipping, it would now be your turn plus the $80 credit. But seeing is how you arent having it than thats fine! And If you have something smart ass to say to me, than say it to me...be a man! So Lets just end it here, screw your $40 credit...I know better than to deal with you again!"

Eric - you get your wish. The credit will be removed tomorrow. You could have easily purchased $70 worth of product, whether it be light bulbs, or whatever, and $10 for shipping, with nothing out of pocket, and been done. You chose to handle it this way, and do not want the credit. Ok. Fair enough. I still wish you both the best of luck with your reptiles regardless.

As most anyone can see reading this, there was obviously little I could have done. But I was willing to try.

Thanks for the good words from most of you. Have a safe and happy new year, and don't forget to contact your local representative about the current bill in congress. Don't let them take away pythons & boas! Click here to view the bill and current status

Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply

 

[alexestrada17]

Sorry David, but since "i have problems reading" can you POINT OUT the "REPEATED INSULTS" to Eric...because i found non...unless calling him a 17 year old is an insult..could be considered kinda of an insult if he really isnt 17 but its nothing to get all fired up about..but nothing REPEATED...

My response:



LLL's response:




My (final) response:

 

[alexestrada17]

I appreciate you posting those David, as I have nothing to hide there. I wouldn't have put it in a message to you if I was worried about that....

As for this situation - it is done. Here is Eric's ONLY email response to my request of a time-frame break down so he and I could calmly discuss it:

"Ok heres the deal....I am done with you! Yes it all boils down to shipping...if you were gonna meet me half way than lets see...I have already paid $40 in shipping, it would now be your turn plus the $80 credit. But seeing is how you arent having it than thats fine! And If you have something smart ass to say to me, than say it to me...be a man! So Lets just end it here, screw your $40 credit...I know better than to deal with you again!"

Eric - you get your wish. The credit will be removed tomorrow. You could have easily purchased $70 worth of product, whether it be light bulbs, or whatever, and $10 for shipping, with nothing out of pocket, and been done. You chose to handle it this way, and do not want the credit. Ok. Fair enough. I still wish you both the best of luck with your reptiles regardless.

As most anyone can see reading this, there was obviously little I could have done. But I was willing to try.

Thanks for the good words from most of you. Have a safe and happy new year, and don't forget to contact your local representative about the current bill in congress. Don't let them take away pythons & boas! Click here to view the bill and current status

Scott Wesley
LLLReptile & Supply

Scott,

You can pass those credits over my way since Eric doesn't want them
I won't think twice about taking them!

 

[ShiffyAME]

What is he insulting David?? My typing skills?? Im sorry I didnt go to college and all just to run a pet store that is ran like a used car lot. I wonder...does he know how much money I make a year?? David e-mail me the pms please...hell IDK if i will even understand them but ill give it a shot

but me typing my good views of lll have nothing to do with this thread i think lll has been nothing but respectful towards the situation and gone more than out of the way to make things right but i guess if you call them a few more names and yell a little louder we'll all dislike lll. and as far as your comment of how much you make in a year, what's that have to do with it? and if you make so much why not just pay the shipping.

 

[Alex G]

Wait, so you think he should have to spend another $40 to obtain the credit he was owed? I am simply in awe at the amount of people who think this is acceptable. Wow. Just wow.

You're right; he would be better off paying the full price for the animal AND shipping.

 

[Eric Favez]

but me typing my good views of lll have nothing to do with this thread i think lll has been nothing but respectful towards the situation and gone more than out of the way to make things right but i guess if you call them a few more names and yell a little louder we'll all dislike lll. and as far as your comment of how much you make in a year, what's that have to do with it? and if you make so much why not just pay the shipping.

Because im already out $200...and half of what the animal cost is $80 not $40 there is a point to make here. Yall still dont get it...all yall are perfectly content with these people knowingly selling mite infested animals. During one phone conversation I asked If they knew that theyre animals had mites and I was told yes for the most part...and they dont treat the animals, they just sell them! I cant believe yall act like they dont know what theyre doing. They screw people on a professional level...its quite deceiving.

 

[sincitydragons]

no kidding I could sure use the 80.00 I'll give it straight to the BOI. Scott don't sweat it, the reasonable minds here can see that this was one of those customers that had his mind set from the beginnning that he was wronged and there's nothing you could've done to make it truly right in his eyes. My guess is that even if you had covered the shipping he would still probably never ordered from you again and would've bad mouthed you to anyone who would lend an ear. Eric, if you want a quarter I'll gladly donate it so you can call someone who cares.

 

[DavidBeard]

Jonathon, your cute rhetoric and witty remarks might make you feel cooler, but rest assured it is only a facade. Obviously you care, otherwise you wouldn't be here giving your 2 cents. I love it when people commit public self-pwnage. Gives me quite the chuckle.

 

[sincitydragons]

whats wrong david? You don't like that I had an opinion that was different from your own. Thats okay, I'm fine with that, if all you can do is sink to personal insults then thats your problem and beyond this I will not respond to you.

 

[DavidBeard]

whats wrong david? You don't like that I had an opinion that was different from your own. Thats okay, I'm fine with that, if all you can do is sink to personal insults then thats your problem and beyond this I will not respond to you.

I could easily ask/say the same of you.

 

[Junkyard]

Ok Like I said this is all my fault....Im the one selling animals with parasites...David like you said....because they have a good reputation than they cant do any wrong. Even if they sell mite infested animals. Oh I just thought of something...Isnt it the sellers job to do a good look over of the animal before the freaking thin is shipped???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Just to clarify, LLL has a mixed reputation. Not everyone has had a good experience with them, there are numerous threads here on the BOI. My personal thoughts on LLL, buy their supplies, not their animals.

I have seen terrible handling skills from their employees, mixed WC and CBB in one cage. They are a pet store. Granted I have not walked into their store in quite a while now, but do see them regularly vending at shows. I do not trust them with animals, especially when I see improper handling that almost resulted in a young girl almost getting bit on the face by a ball python.

 

[mxracer4life]

Come on Eric, that is not a professional way to act. LLLReptile clearly stated that they could have missed some mites, ADMITTING that this is a possibility, and even after no contact for 2 weeks was still willing to help you out. If you are right, and they are wrong, there is nothing documented to prove either way. You have to document these things. If you have a problem, ever, document it, even if its writing it down or sending an email just for verification on the date/time. Next time you want to start a BAD GUY post, please bring some clear, convincing evidence of the person or company that is in the wrong. It does no good to start a bad guy post if you have no clear evidence, just for future reference.

 

[alexestrada17]

Guys, lets consider this thread dead...Obviously Eric received an animal with mites, decided to take matters into his own hands, called LLL once the animal died (violating their terms), then he is offered $80 in credit and refused them. LLL's offer was more than fair... There really is nothing more to do on this thread..