Bad Guy Lou Rodrigues, Designer Ball Pythons also on Kingsnake.com

[KelliH]

I'm still left wondering why Lou didn't just use a 7 or 12 hour heat pack with temps in the 80s on the receiving side? 40 hour heat pack in with a snake that was a large amount of the volume of the package..... am I the only one not suprised the animal didn't make it? I think both parties screwed the perverbial pooch on this one and truly hope both learn from it if nothing else....

Dean YOU da man!

Are there 7 or 12 hour heat packs? The smallest I have seen are 20 hour ones. I had no idea there were smaller ones.

 

[chamgirl99471]

I have a couple of 12 hour ones and I know there are 6 hour hand warmers out there!!

 

[jurban]

Lou R Good Guy

I posted before and got criticized for never posting. Some posts said people have lives and do not have time to wait for packages to be delivered. I do have a life and that's why I do not typically post but I am not going to sit back and see a good breeder get trashed. Here are the facts of dealing with Lou R. I lived in Tennessee for a couple of years and had at least 10 ball pythons shipped to me from Chicago. It was at different times of the year and every package that I received was shipped with only 1 heat pack taped to the top of the box. I have also purchased reptiles from other reputable breeders like VPI and shipping was consistent from them too. I always made sure to be home in the morning especially until I received my packages, even having a life and working 80 hours a week I still make the proper arrangements. I have purchased over 25 ball pythons from Lou and have not had a problem with one. Actually I deal with him because he guaranties everything he sells and everything I have purchased from Lou is doing excellent. I have bought high end morphs without a concern. He will not even sell an animal unless its health is good and the animal is eating. He is also very accessible all day long by phone or e-mail. He has been involved in the reptile business for a long time and knows how to properly ship a package containing snakes. I know from experience. I am not a friend jumping online to defend him , I am passionate reptile keeper that likes to be treated fairly and I have never had an issue or complaint with Lou.

 

[Shadera]

Hand and foot warmers are NOT safe for shipping reptiles.

Industry standard is the 40 hour reptile heat pack with pink stripe. They hold a fairly stable temp throughout shipping with a peak at a certain point. Those hand and foot warmers have zero predictability as to how long they'll last or how hot they'll get.

 

[chamgirl99471]

I know.. I myself would NEVER use one... I was just answering the other post about wether they had 6 or 12 hour heat packs!!

 

[hhmoore]

Not all "real" heat packs have the red/pink stripe, btw. I think that's just Uniheat.

 

[R. Eventide]

I'm still left wondering why Lou didn't just use a 7 or 12 hour heat pack with temps in the 80s on the receiving side? 40 hour heat pack in with a snake that was a large amount of the volume of the package.....

Because if the package had been delayed in Chicago (or wherever it was really cold) and the heat pack stopped early, we'd be here but discussing a cold, dead snake instead of a hot, dead one.

When packing a reptile, you must plan for the worst.

 

[chongorojo]

Oh trust me I do plan for the worst... but that brings up one question that I don't thing ever got asked, when was the package dropped off at UPS?

 

[Laura Fopiano]

Okay, i've been following this train wreck of a thread from the start. and I have to agree with Rick, UPS has a history of bad behaviors and made up first attempts.

Even if it is true and there was only one heat pack in that box, there is no way that snake should be dead in a four hour window! Sorry, but I just don't buy it at all.

 

[brd7666]

First of all, for people to say that four hours should not make a differance are wrong. Four hours is a huge window when dealing with fragile animals.

For example, if a snake dies at 2:00 pm then it was alive at 10:00 am. That is a four hour window. If a snake died at 12:00 pm then it was alive at 8:00 am, this is another four hour window. Even if a snake dies at 2:00 pm, it is still alive at 1:00 pm, so that is only a one hour window.

The trouble with this case is that no one knows the time of death, and no one knows the conditions or the placement of the package inside the UPS truck.

UPS trucks have a big glass window on the top of the cargo area to let in sunlight. If this package was placed up on top where the direct sunlight was hitting it, then we have a problem, and four hours would have made all the difference in the world. UPS trucks get hot in the back, there is no circulation and it gets sealed up when the driver is driving, so it does get hot back there on warm days.

It's a shame that this has happened. I have said a couple of times now that I believe both parties are lying to some degree. The OP has said himself to let this thread die. It is going nowhere, and that more then likely isn't going to change. There is nothing else that can be said, so at this point it is all up to the two parties.

 

[deborahbroadus]

Okay, i've been following this train wreck of a thread from the start. and I have to agree with Rick, UPS has a history of bad behaviors and made up first attempts.

Even if it is true and there was only one heat pack in that box, there is no way that snake should be dead in a four hour window! Sorry, but I just don't buy it at all.

I do. Remember the saga of the customer and the snake that died on the way home and everyone (almost) blamed it on the high heat in the car (there was not even a heat pack in that story).

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

I'm curious...

If UPS admitted (unlikely) to the driver lying about a fake delivery attempt...Where would all of you that blame the buyer for missing the delivery stand?

 

[brd7666]

I'm curious...

If UPS admitted (unlikely) to the driver lying about a fake delivery attempt...Where would all of you that blame the buyer for missing the delivery stand?

I would review my statements, and that does not neccesarily mean I would change anything that I have said, but I won't say that I may not change things that I have said either.

However, even if the driver did not stop, he would never admit to it, because his job would be in jepordy. So that will never happen.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I'm curious...

If UPS admitted (unlikely) to the driver lying about a fake delivery attempt...Where would all of you that blame the buyer for missing the delivery stand?

If knowing this risk, they both agreed to use this shipper with such a "spotty" reputation and neither made prior arrangements for the "what ifs," then the buyer and the seller are equally cupable and need to make arrangements that satisify both. If no delivery attempt was made (in your example) then the seller holds the bigger burden for the reliablity of the shipper he chose to employ.

However, the records (FACT..even if it is a lie) show a delivery attempt was made and Eddie admits that he has had problems before with UPS deliveries...therefore, imo, Eddie has the bigger burden because Lou would have no way of knowing that Eddie's UPS delivery people have such a spotty delivery record. In my humble opinion, Eddie didn't show "due deligence."

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

However, even if the driver did not stop, he would never admit to it, because his job would be in jepordy. So that will never happen.

If their are several customer complaints made against the driver for doing just that, he will loose his job. Personally, I'd be calling UPS every stinkin' day until the driver was terminated.

I don't think the buyer should be held accountable for what the UPS driver did, this was not in his control. If the seller has a TOS specifically stating they are not responsible for UPS errors, that's another story...I don't think though that a written TOS has been presented in this case.

 

[brd7666]

If their are several customer complaints made against the driver for doing just that, he will loose his job. Personally, I'd be calling UPS every stinkin' day until the driver was terminated.

I don't think the buyer should be held accountable for what the UPS driver did, this was not in his control. If the seller has a TOS specifically stating they are not responsible for UPS errors, that's another story...I don't think though that a written TOS has been presented in this case.

Well, I am not going to get into an argument here with you, but you have no proof that the driver didn't make a delivery attempt. You are basing your comments on hearsay, and not facts.

When you say, the buyer should not be held accountable for what the UPS driver did, What exactly did the driver do? And, if you feel the driver did do something wrong, can you back up your claim?

 

[TripleMoonsExotic]

If you want to think about it that way, the driver stating he made a delivery attempt (and did not leave a sticker as proof that he made an attempt) is also hearsay.

If in fact the driver did not make a delivery attempt, that is what I meant by the buyer should not be held accountable, obviously.

I have nothing to "back up" this particular case, obviously...Pretty silly to even ask that. I'm simply pointing out a different viewpoint based on my experience with UPS as well as the countless others that, if you did the research, you would be well aware of. Right out of the gate everyone is accusing him of lying...But if you did a bit of looking around, you would know it's not a far-fetched thing to happen. I think it's a pretty crappy thing for him to be called a liar when you have no proof he's lying...Basing your statements instead on what the driver said.

Do you work for UPS? You're getting awfully hot and bothered with negative opinion about them.

At this point, the seller obviously has made his choice. Arguing isn't going to help...Neither is calling someone a liar without proof...Errors on both ends were made, it is what it is at this point.

 

[Southern Wolf]

I don't think the buyer should be held accountable for what the UPS driver did, this was not in his control. If the seller has a TOS specifically stating they are not responsible for UPS errors, that's another story...I don't think though that a written TOS has been presented in this case.

And thus the reason I wont buy from ANYONE that does not stand behind their animals and their delivery service. As a buyer I am buying a live animal and a service to get it here. IF the shipping company screws up... then why should I have to eat it. I paid for a live animal.

 

[chamgirl99471]

I Completely agree with you Kevin!! This thing could go around and around in circles and never get anywhere!! The People Who Know the Truth about the Heat Packs are the buyer and seller and the ONLY person who knows whether they attempted delivery or not is the DRIVER!! These guys need to work this out themselves!!

 

[hhmoore]

I can't believe people are still going back and forth about this aspect.
Sellers standing behind their animals & their delivery service should be an expectation...however, many are going to continue to disagree with the idea that it remains the seller's responsibility AFTER it is recorded that the delivery attempt was unsuccessful. It would be a different story if it could be shown that there was, in fact, no such attempt; but that is pretty hard to do. I'm not calling Eddie a liar - I've had tracking info read "Delivered" nearly an hour before the truck hit my street (that wasn't UPS or FedEx, though), so I don't see it as an impossibility - but I also don't think UPS' documentation should be disregarded as a technicality.

If Lou admits to using 3 heat packs, in all likelihood, he killed that snake...BUT, if the package had been accepted by 10:30am, it might have survived. 4 extra hours, with 3 heat packs, on an 85 degree day, could just as easily have caused the death.
As has been said repeatedly, if people want door to door delivery, they need to make receiving the animal a priority. Eddie's attitude about that part of things sucks.