Lowballing: Busting the Bubble

[DThomas]

As far as Jim's point on method, some people are so smooth that butter melts in their mouth. I'm not one of them. I acquire animals for my interests and I do enjoy conflict. If you're looking for a friend, buy a dog.

Mitch

And on that same token, you should not then come running to create a post bemoaning the people that take offence at how you approach them. You "enjoy conflict" but you are "...sick and tired of hearing about how lowballing someone with an overpriced animal is a sin or unethical." Bit of a contradiction there.

 

[Seamus Haley]

So your disagreement, Seamus, is with method, approach, and perhaps respect. It's not with the idea that offering less is acceptable. While I agree with you that such tactics are unprofessional I don't regard them as not "legitimate". Any tactic which causes one to arrive at a settlement is "legitimate" whether it is "nice" or not. Telling the seller that their product sucks is not a good way to get a positive result, but telling them that you love it, need it, and can't live without it guarantees that you will pay the full asking price.

Method, approach and respect pretty much sum it up. Opening an attempt at price negotiation can be done a few ways, but few people have the skill with language needed to badmouth a product and leave the seller wanting to continue with the process. I'd draw a line between negotiation and lowballing and define the line with the respect given by the individual making the offer.

Hypothetical and somewhat extreme examples of one and the other... Say there's an ad up by a person looking to sell an entire clutch of neonate whatever's that they just hatched out and they've listed a specific price per animal in the ad.

An approach that expresses interest and politely asks if the price would be negotiable or under what circumstances will *usually* either initiate a conversation or generate a polite but firm negative response. "Hey, I just saw your ad for _____ and I was interested in possibly purchasing one. I was wondering if your price was negotiable..." would be the respectful way of handling the question.

An approach that starts "Hey, I saw your ad for ____ and they look like garbage, you're an idiot for asking that much for them, I'll pay you $X and no more." is disrespectful and would qualify, in my mind, as lowballing. Obviously the buyer has some interest in obtaining whatever was advertised so it's not as if the attempted sale is devoid of all value and that kind of tactic is a lot more likely to alienate or just flat out piss off the person they were attempting to bargain with.

Same goes for the ones who start polite and turn ugly... Politely offer a lower price and if it gets rejected, the immediate juvenile response is to start in with the rude badmouthing of the product.

With a modicum of sense in the approach, a discussion can be opened about things like market forces and average prices and the label of lowballer can be avoided.

I think there's also a point after which a requested discount is just too extreme to be considered reasonable too... and that anyone with a brain would understand that asking for a discount of fifty percent or more is just not going to result in any kind of positive discussion under normal circumstances. While the buyers do hold the eventual power by deciding how much is too much; sellers choose their prices for a reason. That reason may be an attempt to recoup (recoop... re... koopatroopa... re... Huh.) an investment or a belief that the quality or rarity of their item/animal justifies the additional expense or they just picked a hopeful market average and ran with it... Whatever the reason may be, they've got a reason. If their asking price is high enough above what the buyer thinks is fair or reasonable to result in the buyer asking for a MASSIVE discount before they'd consider the purchase then a buyer with common sense should really just move on to the next ad with a similar item. If there is no next ad with a similar item then... well... that's a seller's market. It doesn't even have to be a percentile discount and this is the part where it gets a bit ambiguous and you'll have different people expressing different opinions about how much it too much and what constitutes lowballing versus negotiation. I *might* ask for five dollars off a ten dollar cornsnake 'cause hey... it's five bucks. I wouldn't ask for five grand off a ten thousand dollar snake though for the exact same reason. Ultimately that is where the real contention will be found- how much is too much to ask for off an ad price. I'd say as a personal rule of thumb that if my offered price is more than thirty percent lower than their asking price and there are no extenuating circumstances (and yeah, I'm sure we could all sit around and come up with a list of two thousand reasons why a seller might accept a tiny fraction of their asking price), it'd be disrespectful to make the offer.

... although there are a few complete dumbasses who don't know the difference between being frank and being rude or when it's a good idea to use either one that'll see the numbers as being the only reason people dislike their practices.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

When I offered 20% off the Basin ETB asking price, the seller flipped, when I offered 50% off retail for Cheryl's used cages, she freaked.

I did delete the ad where you eventually offered the asking price of $1500~ for the rack alone without the mice in it as originally offered~

BUT~ my email saves my responses automatically~ so I do have my response in it's entirety to your original offer here:

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:36:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Cheryl Marchek" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Offer
To: "Behm Family" <[email protected]>
No thank you.

Behm Family <[email protected]> wrote: Cheryl,

I have inquired around regarding the value of used MaxiMouse racks. It appears that they sell at a 50% discount. My offer is therefore $1,000 for the rack, mice, food and bedding.

Mitch



Cheryl Marchek
www.thereddragonsden.com
[email protected]
951-258-7026

 

[Scott Ashton]

I did delete the ad where you eventually offered the asking price of $1500~ for the rack alone without the mice in it as originally offered~

BUT~ my email saves my responses automatically~ so I do have my response in it's entirety to your original offer here:

Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:36:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Cheryl Marchek" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert
Subject: Re: Offer
To: "Behm Family" <[email protected]>
No thank you.

Behm Family <[email protected]> wrote: Cheryl,

I have inquired around regarding the value of used MaxiMouse racks. It appears that they sell at a 50% discount. My offer is therefore $1,000 for the rack, mice, food and bedding.

Mitch



Cheryl Marchek
www.thereddragonsden.com
[email protected]
951-258-7026

Whoa - that's crazy talk.

You really should try not to freak out like that on your potential customers.

 

[Behmfamily]

Dennis,

Let me clarify. I enjoy the conflict between myself and the ignorant or irrational objectors who just shout out non-productive garbage, but can't communicate a counterpoint.

I'm tired of the "Big-mouths of Morality," who think that they set the standard for social communication. The tone and content of Seamus' thread is productive. Jamie's post is garbage. Wesley's voice from heaven is just anoying. If you look at the biggest scandals of 2006, it was the pilars of society, the moral barometers, that were caught in the act.

Mitch

 

[Behmfamily]

Cheryl,

That's not your response. You posted your response in one of my threads. I'll see if I can find it.

Mitch

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Feel free. Would you like me to post the emails I do have~ with my "freaking out" responses of a similar tone as the "no thank you"~ they are longer. But still polite. I have gone out of my way to maintain a polite tone in my responses to you~ despite your posting in an advertisement for RAT racks that I should have taken your offer on the MOUSE rack (not advertised at that time) and attempting to goad me into a rude response. I would be perfectly happy to post everything I have~ it's rather boring stuff.....wish I'd kept that ad I deleted. I think enough people saw it though.

 

[Jim O]

wish I'd kept that ad I deleted.

If the ad was posted here it may have been "soft deleted" and can be restored. If you have the date maybe Rich or one of the mods can help with that.

 

[Behmfamily]

Cheryl,

Please understand I have no problem with you declining my offer. You have the right to try and sell your racks for whatever you want. You didn't want to sell them at market price as you stated, "...I'll just keep them..." That's OK. My problem is when you inject that into some other thread that suggests that my approach add to the topic of questioning my integrity. Two separate issues. Our negotiation had nothing to do with ethics or morality, only social communication. You can start a new thread under the topic "Who thinks that Mitch needs to change his means of communication."
Uninteresting, but more on point.

Can we get back to the topic of Busting Market Bubbles or as Allan Greenspan said before the Internet Bust in 2000, "...reducing irrational exhuberance...?"

Mitch

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

If I put a lot of thought into it I might be able to come up with "close" to the right date. But it would be a headache for me, a lot of effort for some poor mod~ and not really very flattering for Mitch. I have gone to some effort to remain polite and professional throughout~ I probably should not have mentioned the entire thing in this thread at all considering my intent to remain professional and aloof (sometimes it's hard to remember how much I want to be professional when I get a bit....irked) ~

Lets hope Mitch is gonna let it drop~ as he is going to be somewhat embarrassed when he fails to find a nasty response from me as he seems to think he is going to. If Mitch lets it drop~ I will too. If not~ I'll happily post all the very boring emails where I politely explain why I will not take his lowball offer~ and if a mod wants to help find the ad for the rat racks where he tried to goad me by saying I should have taken his offer on the mouse rack.....and eventually offers $1500 for the rack empty~ no mice, no feed, no litter..........and I still refuse it (price was $2000 at that point because I was annoyed)......well~ if it comes to that.....it would be very nice if a mod wanted to take the time to look for that.

 

[Cheryl Marchek AKA JM]

Cheryl,

Please understand I have no problem with you declining my offer. You have the right to try and sell your racks for whatever you want. You didn't want to sell them at market price as you stated, "...I'll just keep them..." That's OK. My problem is when you inject that into some other thread that suggests that my approach add to the topic of questioning my integrity. Two separate issues. Our negotiation had nothing to do with ethics or morality, only social communication. You can start a new thread under the topic "Who thinks that Mitch needs to change his means of communication."
Uninteresting, but more on point.

Can we get back to the topic of Busting Market Bubbles or as Allan Greenspan said before the Internet Bust in 2000, "...reducing irrational exhuberance...?"

Mitch

I thought the topic was lowball offers? That was my response. I did not NAME you as the lowball offer that informed my stuff was overpriced, then tried to negotiate until you offered asking price for less than the original offering.....you did that.

I just commented in such a fashion that it would be difficult not to recognise yourself.

 

[sschind]

An approach that starts "Hey, I saw your ad for ____ and they look like garbage, you're an idiot for asking that much for them, I'll pay you $X and no more." is disrespectful and would qualify, in my mind, as lowballing. Obviously the buyer has some interest in obtaining whatever was advertised so it's not as if the attempted sale is devoid of all value and that kind of tactic is a lot more likely to alienate or just flat out piss off the person they were attempting to bargain with.

I was thinking about this and I came up with a response that I would use if this ever happened to me. I would reply and say "I am sorry that you feel that way about my snakes. Since they are obviously not up to your standards I will do you a huge favor and refuse your offer. I would not want anyone to have a snake in their collection that they felt was not of the highest quality. I appreciate the effort you made along with the offer but since you obviously do not like my animals I would encourage you not to waste any more of your time with a counter offer. I will not sell my snakes to anyone who feels they are poor quality for any price.


thank you

 

[Behmfamily]

Steve,

You can use that one, but what I'm sure a small breeder with a significant amount of his liquid net worth in his animals is thinking is {OH God! I hope I don't get stuck with these things like I did with my $750 Limburgh-strain albinos. Somebody better buy these things.}

Mitch