Luis Taracena (HERPHOBBIEST) Bad Guy Buyer Beware

[snake5007]

louie, you owe the girl the ENTIRE amount she sent you, all 1150.00.

She asked you NOT to ship, you shipped.

YOU OWE HER.

You're a first class scumbag louie, first class.

Pay the lady, there is NO way you should have sent that snake.

Do either of you have pictures of the snake prior to it's being shipped? How about when recieved?

Scumbags don't have any class.

 

[KellysConstrictors]

As a good friend of Debbie and Fred, I know my testimonial here will seem biased, and it is. I have been a witness to this saga from the very beginning and everything thing that Debbie and Fred have said is accurate. I saw the snake in question a day or two after they received it and it was definitely undersized and showed signs of RI. Fred called me daily during throughout this whole fiasco, and I Know they tried many times to contact this man and remedy this situation. They have a beautiful collection and their animals are maintained in excellent conditions. I just posted this to let the BOI know that Fred and Debbie are assets to the Herp community and I stand behind them their fight against this slimeball. Respectfully, John M. Kelly

 

[Wilomn]

Here is my side of the story. I emailed Luis about a snake for sale on kingsnake. It was breeding time and supposedly the snake was of breedable age and also a poss super salmon. Luis did have 2 snakes at the time and i chose the one i wanted./]

Did you see pictures of the snakes and if so could you post them?

[According to Luis the snake was 100% healthy so I sent him the money, $1150.00 via paypal. At this time i did ask for my money back. I was new to the breeeding industry and was unaware of the BOI. Someone suggested i check it out. I did so and promptly realized(after reading countless threads on him) that Luis was someone i did not want to do business with. I contacted him about sending my money back as he hadnt shipped the snake yet, but he said he already spent the money and refused to do so./]

looie, you know this is a No No. It's NOT your money until the buyer has taken possesion of the snake and is happy with it.[ He shipped out the Salmon. It arrived, and was considerably smaller than he had stated. She was about 3 1/2 ft. Absolutely not breedable size. Which i could of lived with, but the snake was also in the middle of a bad shed and seemed to have a serious respitory infection. /]

loooie, that snake was not only misrepresented, but arrived with a bad shed and SICK. What's with that looie? Seems you told some lies there boy.

[I quaranteened the snake and immediately got it into a proper environment. I Immediately contacted Luis to let him know that I wanted to return the snake for a refund. He told me he could not refund my money because the money was already spent for his bills. This was the day the snake came. He told me i could send it back for a credit. But at this point i wasnt intrested in anything else he had because he proceeded to tell me that someone else had the snake and it was neglected and he was trying to rehab her./]

Uh oh, looie, your story is changing ..... having to make up some lies to cover your butt, eh boy?

Say looie, do you have a website?

When are you planning to refund the purchase price for the sick snake you misrepresented as healthy and breedable, the snake actually being FAR too small to breed and with a stuck shed to boot?

loooooooie, you got some splaining to dooooo.

 

[LeviathanNI]

louie, you owe the girl the ENTIRE amount she sent you, all 1150.00.

She asked you NOT to ship, you shipped.

THAT is the primary point here.. the fact that the transaction was cancelled, and the seller still carried on. Regardless of the health of the snake*, the fact that the deal was off before any shipping etc had commenced, could actually make this theft.. and despite the animal being sent, it is still theft as the deal/arrangement was cancelled in plenty of time. The animal being ill etc is irrelevant to that point, as it should not have been sent in the first place... and the fact it was ill would just be a corrobarating fact as to why the buyer wanted to cancel the initial deal.. her instincts being proven correct.


*Obviously we are all concerned with the health of our animals, but I'm trying to take a purely legal view of it here.

 

[critical bill]

Here is my side of the story.

the snake was also in the middle of a bad shed and seemed to have a serious respitory infection. I quaranteened the snake and immediately got it into a proper environment. I Immediately contacted Luis to let him know that I wanted to return the snake for a refund. After a week of watching the snake daily, the respitory problem seemed to get worse. It would not eat at all. The snake was going downhill. I tried repeatedly to contact Luis and he never returned my emails or phone calls. EVER. Then the snake Died and i sent an email to Luis letting him know the snake had died. He never responded to that email either. He never asked for a picture or a necrospy as he stated. As far as taking a picture or getting a necropsey, i had never had a snake have a problem, let alone die, and wasnt quite sure how to proceed. I tried contacting Luis in every way i knew how so he could direct me in how he would like me to proceed.

When it became apparent that the snake was suffering from a URI, did you take it to a vet? You don't mention that you did so I take it you did not.

Do you think the right way to proceed with a snake in that condition was to contact the money hungry scumbag who probably sold you a sick snake in the first place?

Were you really going to ship a snake in such distress back to Louis?

Both of you seemed worried about the money but neither of you seem to recognize the real loss. The snake is dead. And whether it shipped that way or developed symptoms along the way, nothing truly responsible seems to have been done about it.

Maybe I got this wrong and if I do I'd be happy to apologize. But from whats been posted I just cant help feeling sad for that snake.

 

[critical bill]

Forget about how the snake shouldnt have been shipped in the first. It was and nothing can be done about that now. She accepted the package and accepted responsibility for caring for the animal.

 

[Wilomn]

Forget about how the snake shouldnt have been shipped in the first. It was and nothing can be done about that now. She accepted the package and accepted responsibility for caring for the animal.

Gotta disagree here.

She flat out told looie that she did not want the snake PRIOR to its being shipped.

He shipped because he already spent her money.

No matter what happened to the snake, it was HIS snake as she had already asked for her money back.

What happened after, and she SHOULD have gotten it to a vet, it was NOT her snake. She not only did NOT get the snake she wanted to purchase, he sent a different snake, but she told him NOT to ship at all.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I find myself in the rare position of agreeing with Wes on this one. As with most of his transactions, the problems here are all on Luis.

 

[critical bill]

Gotta disagree here.

She flat out told looie that she did not want the snake PRIOR to its being shipped.

He shipped because he already spent her money.

No matter what happened to the snake, it was HIS snake as she had already asked for her money back.

What happened after, and she SHOULD have gotten it to a vet, it was NOT her snake. She not only did NOT get the snake she wanted to purchase, he sent a different snake, but she told him NOT to ship at all.

To me it was her snake when she accepted the package. Even though it may not have been what she ordered, she had a responsibility to that sick snake first, and then to work at a resolution to get exactly what she paid for or to get her money back. If that were done we'd likely be hearing about a live snake in this thread instead of a dead snake.

I do see the point that she asked the guy not to ship when he clearly hadn't already done so. And things would have worked out different had he not, perhaps even for the snake, but thats not what happened. I'd rather work in the present of what actually did happen and what was done for the most important aspect of this transaction that shouldn't have happened and that to me was the preventable death of that snake.

 

[critical bill]

I find myself in the rare position of agreeing with Wes on this one. As with most of his transactions, the problems here are all on Luis.

For the most part I agree with him too. I think Louis does owner her a full refund. Clearly she asked that he not ship and he lied.

I'm just looking at the situation from the point of delivery to the point of the snakes expiration and wondering if that poor sick snake would really give a crap to analyze his value or non value to a new owner who didn't want him in the first place and seeking only to remedy the money end of it all with a bonafide scumbag instead of what was ailing him.

To me its just....

1) take care of the animal because thats the real problem facing you.

2) work it out with the seller or bring it here for assistance if you cant.

If that was followed the worst thing that would have occurred is a live snake that they didn't want or order and that he didn't want to take back.

This snake is dead from negligence and greed.

Thats my story. Gotta go grab a drink and I'll see you guys in a bit....

 

[Wilomn]

In the big picture, where the only thing of real importance is the life if the animal, you'd be right Chuck.

This though was the purchase of a commodity. She needed that snake to breed that year for profit.

Maybe there wasn't money for the vet. Maybe she felt strongly enough about it not being hers that she didn't go to the vet. Maybe when she had it, it didn't look like it would die as soon as it did and whether she was planning a vet visit or not is moot.

The bottom line is, this is NOT what she wanted, she asked that it NOT be shipped.

It's ALL on ol looie, as usual, once again.

Hey looie, you got a website?

 

[critical bill]

In the big picture, where the only thing of real importance is the life if the animal, you'd be right Chuck. This though was the purchase of a commodity. She needed that snake to breed that year for profit.

Well, as you explained it, I guess that is where I find myself in the dilemma of sympathizing only with the snake. I don't like guys like Louis, as much I don't like folks who seem more concerned with how much money they stand to make than whats in the best welfare of the animal.

Ill prepared or ill equipped to handle a situation that results in the death of a snake is a sad but very common thing in this hobby. To let an animal just waste away when you could, as an experienced hobbyist and breeder, do something to prevent it, but not see it as a profitable solution, is just totally disgusting.

Christ....I'm even more bent after thinking about it now. I'm not talking to you anymore today.

 

[ravensgait]

Yeah Chuck from the snakes point of view the whole deal sucked.. ""To me it was her snake when she accepted the package"" If she hadn't accepted the package it would have been a lot worse for the animal. Might not have survived the trip back, if it did then it would be in the care of the yo yo who shipped it out sick.


Yeah I agree that better things could have been done for this critter but I have to agree with Wes it was Luis's snake and should never have been shipped a refund should have been in the mail instead...Randy

 

[Serafim]

Well, as you explained it, I guess that is where I find myself in the dilemma of sympathizing only with the snake. I don't like guys like Louis, as much I don't like folks who seem more concerned with how much money they stand to make than whats in the best welfare of the animal.

Ill prepared or ill equipped to handle a situation that results in the death of a snake is a sad but very common thing in this hobby. To let an animal just waste away when you could, as an experienced hobbyist and breeder, do something to prevent it, but not see it as a profitable solution, is just totally disgusting.

Christ....I'm even more bent after thinking about it now. I'm not talking to you anymore today.

I agree 100 percent. Someone should have prevented the snakes Death first. Regardless of who's property it was.

 

[critical bill]

I agree 100 percent. Someone should have prevented the snakes Death first. Regardless of who's property it was.

Bingo Bango! Order of importance. But as I was earlier reminded....sometimes its just about the money.

An animal is illegally imported and dies in transit and we read about it and we go nuts. We rant and rave about how its going to effect the hobby. A breeder and hobbyist does absolutely crap to save a legal animal in their care and its nothing more than a matter of profitability and they pretty much get a pass.

 

[Wilomn]

Chuck, you can't force responsibility on someone. We also don't know yet if anything was done Vet wise or not.

IF I sent you a sick animal that you had asked me not to send you Chuck, it is NOT your responsibility to rehab it. It would be the nice thing to do, the ethical thing to do but not something you HAD to do.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it wrong.

Some of these animals are just animals to some people. We place monitary values on them. There is nothing wrong with this. There is also nothing wrong with cutting your losses. We've all, well most of us, had to put down animals instead of continuing to pay bills that would not keep the animsl alive.

No one's getting a pass, she hasn't answered the question yet.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

This is all on Luis.... I know Debbie, and I also know a lot of other people who go or choose the "organic" route, and let the cards lay as they are dealt.. Animal lives or dies, but I ain't loosing any more money... I know the feeling from a while back... I feel for everyone in this situation, BUT IT IS LUIS'S FAULT, quite simple, as Debbie paid a thou plus, that should be one healthy "stupid" boa, as my mom would say.. She paid highly for a breedable hypo female.. It should have been 110%.. OR DON'T ADVERTISE HER.... Take care of your boas, or whatever it is you think you love and there won't be any problems.... This is what happens when you don't... It is clear now if it wasn't.... I will never do business with Luis, as I have contemplated before, wayyy before... Thanks Debbie for putting it out there... Everyone can do what they wish with all this info... All have made it clear that Luis has problems... Maybe we need to look at how stuff is set up, maybe we need to help these people set their animals up properly.... It's my main concern, EVERYDAY... I feed them, before I feed my damn self..... Kinda like that. And I got four kids to chase around myself... And I have always agreed, GO TO THE BEST VET POSSSSSIBLE IN YOUR AREA AND BEND OVER with a sick animal... I hate it, and have spent thousands with a vet, just like a bunch of others.... No organics, and try to save the animal, always my creed... But even more simple, take excellent care of the thing and it's on auto pilot.. Meaning, you will have no problems, treat em like a baby human and see what happens... Purify their air, give em bottled water, seeeeee what happens... Do it to the rodents you feed them tooooo.. I think it is great that everyone is here to help with their OPINIONS.. So here mine goes.... EVERYONE, GO TAKE CARE OF YOUR SH#$!!!! Especially Luis... Sorry my friend, this is two tooo many I think..... It's what I am going to do NOWWWW..... See ya at 4am tomorraaa.... Or try sleeping with one or two of your own dumps????? Hmmmmmm....

 

[critical bill]

IF I sent you a sick animal that you had asked me not to send you Chuck, it is NOT your responsibility to rehab it. It would be the nice thing to do, the ethical thing to do but not something you HAD to do.

You are right, it would not be my responsibility to tend to your screwup, but it would be my obligation to that animal. I would not weigh your greed against the best welfare of the animal. I would tend to that first and then tend to you.

I see we differ on this and I know where you're coming from. I know what you would do but sadly this snake did not land in your hands or mine.

Peace folks....time to make dinner for the kids....again.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

Gotta say Chuck, I sorta disagree too. I agree with your views that "morally", probably even "ethically", she should have seen a Vet immediately upon realizing something was wrong. But I do not see it as any sort of obligation on her part, since she did cancel the transaction.

To me the BIG picture is that LUIS sent out a sick snake. And I don't doubt this for a moment either. It is just the type of thing that Luis would do. He's admitted that he hates going to vets, and thinks they are basically just there to rip you off. He stated such before. The ONLY reason he necropsy'd the Albino last year is because he was pressured into it.

 

[crotalusadamanteus]

How 'bout it Luis. Your emails indicate a willingness to take care of this. That to ME sounds like you almost had a moment of conscience. Like you ALMOST knew you did wrong, and were willing to fix it. Somewhat.

Why don't you lapse back to that moment in time, and take care of this. Do what's right if you ever hope to gain an ounce of respect from anyone. The longer it sits, the more issues that arise with your name, the less respect I personally have for you.

I tried to consider you a friend for a while. You do actually have a couple likable traits. But moments like these, do much to destroy any previously formed good opinions of you, leaving nothing but bad opinions in their wake. I am sure many who read these threads will think the same way.

Just something to ponder.