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m.whitefeather- bad guy

Brian

Delta doesnt really fly out of Madison, Comair actually does which has size restraints and things like that. Northwest shut down there cargo hub in Madison an only has it going in the LARGE airpots like Minnesota, Chicago and places like that. And as for USAir I have never heard of it. I have been looking into different options in shipping out a couple of my animals and have come across this knowledge, just figured I would share in case your ever in WI and need to ship something out to someone :) Stupid state doesnt make it all that easy.

I will add one thing to this topic. Michael has been quite outspoken that he will attend shows such as Daytona and Tinley, and Im sure some others. I URGE everyone that has a problem with Michael, or if so many people have had bad dealings with him why dont they take care of it there rather then sitting behind the keyboard and attempting to do it. Do it face to face in person. Michael is far from inconspicous and I doubt will be hard to find.
 
paul neal

hey andy the only reason i'm doing this on the comp. is so i can have everything in writing.not cause i'm a busta!!
 
Andy,
like I stated in my post, it may not be dlta (or another airline) directly, but one that flies in their name. The links I posted were from research THAT day. I would think (but could be wrong) that if they did not fly from there, the website would not say they do. As far as the size issue, that is something that is out of his control. I also know that Whitefeather has stated before that he often ships out of Chicago. Yes, yes, I know it is a drive, but it is also words I have read in his emails sent to someone here. After two months (I am sure he went to the shows in Chicago between now and then) that he could have left an hour or two earlier to make it to the airport so he can keep his word on things. If he was so worried about getting them to someone, there is always Airborne, FedEX, UPS. All it takes is a insulated box and possibly a cold pack (if destination requires so) and they would be fine. PERSOANLLY I think it is clear, like I have stated time and again, that Whitefeather is not worried about making good on all his deals, just making the money. As far as facing him in person, why would any sane person do so when a man like WHitefeather and his record PROVE he is a violent, boligerant person. I am not talking about whether or not someone is afraid, but what ADULT would voluntarily put themselves in front of a man like that under the circumstances. I think it is quite apparent what Whitefeather does and how he acts in a uncomfortable situation or has to "defend" his words and LACK of actions. Personally, I would go to his table and just take things off it right there like someone else did (mind you, he did not deny it either). What is he going to do, call the cops and say someone took his animals because he did not refund their money or ship their snakes.................PLEASE!
 
?

first off lets talk about brian o's shipping solution.
yea fed ex and ups will take insulted boxes..that would work if your shipping a hatchling. with the size resptrictions they would go ground and be there in about 4-6 days. does that make any sense to you .?

second you stated "personally I would go to his table and take thnigs" I would pay money to see somone do that.... I would say you make 1 foot from the table...

as far as somone doing that . I dont know the exact details of it, but im sure you dont either and the only 2 people that could verify
what happened are mr b.c. and mr. w.f. and again what does that have to do with any of the issues at hand ? just let everything take there course .
thanks everyone for reading my 2 cents........
 
paul neal

mike where is the money.mike by you not posting in a week looks a little bad on you.you keep dwelling on "i said i wanted to come get the snakes".read it good it says "wanted" it doesn't say "i'm coming".that is still no reason for not sending the refund.where's the money?[2000$$$]please dont come back with some long b.s.just yes or no.
 
Well I just replied to an Email from Andy Deitz saying I was not going to post on here again, but I do want to respond to Tom's post. NOT trying to get the last word in , but he might have a good point.
Tom,
As far as UPS and the other companies, I am not sure on the size challenge you are referring to. As far as I know they would ship 100lbs. Yes, it would cost a pretty penny, but I am sure it could be done. I work for Hilton hotels and ALL TO OFTEN we have clients who are holding conventions and they ship out DOZENS of bozes with all sorts of things prior to arrival. THese boxes have weighed MUCH more than the retic in question at times. I would think anything can be shipped overnight if you pay for it. IF it were to take a week or so, of course that would not be the solution.
As far as walking up to Whitefeather's table and.......
I can only go by what someone else posted in regards to that happening. Like I said, Whitefeather did not deny it, so it must be fact. It was more of a hypothetical situation when I said, "Personally, if it were me....."
Point is, how do you resolve a situation like this if you were in the buyers situation? Sometimes drastic measures need to be taken to resolve something.
Anyway, like I told Andy, I am all but through here unless I am called on directly regarding something. We will just have to see what happens with Whitefeather and go from there (or Paul will).
It just sucks people have to get to this to begin with.........both Whitefeather AND Paul.
Best to all!
 
Re: ?

Not that it's really all that relevant to this topic at this time, but...
TOM E said:
first off lets talk about brian o's shipping solution.
yea fed ex and ups will take insulted boxes..that would work if your shipping a hatchling. with the size resptrictions they would go ground and be there in about 4-6 days. does that make any sense to you .?
Click to expand...
Actually, that's incorrect. Either UPS or Fed Ex would be able to ship snakes of that size overnight. However, given their "shipping restrictions" on snakes you would have to lie and tell them that it's a tortoise, but you would have to do the same thing for any size snake.

Granted, shipping an animal of the size of the one's in question would be somewhat cost prohibitive compared to shipping via airlines, but it could be done.

The bottom line is this...who cares what kind of excuses have been given for why Mr Whitefeather hasn't made good on his end of the deal? It's just been one excuse after another. It's quite obvious at this point that he has little interest in doing the right thing and resolving this situation between himself and Paul. Given his lack of communication with this forum or with Paul over the last week there is no longer any "excuse" that he could give that would be deemed legitimate in the eyes of any reasonable person.

Mr Whitefeather has done this to himself. He could have resolved this whole situation by simply shipping the snakes or sending Paul a check (like he said that he would) this past week or at the very least contacting Paul and making arrangements to do it in the near future if it wasn't possible last week. None of these options were exercised.


Andy, you said:
Michael has been quite outspoken that he will attend shows such as Daytona and Tinley, and Im sure some others. I URGE everyone that has a problem with Michael, or if so many people have had bad dealings with him why dont they take care of it there rather then sitting behind the keyboard and attempting to do it. Do it face to face in person. Michael is far from inconspicous and I doubt will be hard to find.
Click to expand...
This recommendation is just ridiculous. Why would you even suggest something like this? We all know by now that Mr Whitefeather (aka Michael Grunkowski) has served two prison terms and has another one pending for commiting violent crimes. Why would any reasonable person chose this approach? Why would they even need to? If Mr Whitefeather were a responsible (or even respectable) businessman, then he wouldn't put someone in the position that they would have to travel halfway across the country in order to address him face to face. Paul is not "hiding" behind his keyboard...he is simply using the tools that are available to him to try to resolve the situation between him and Michael. What would you do if you were in his situation?
 
Just for the sake of posting an option out here in the public for Whitefeather to see, UPS DOES take shipments up to 150lbs.
Here is the link to their site that explains all shipment sizes.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/prepare/weight_size.html#WeightandSizeLimitsforPackages

I just picked UPS to look at, I would be willing to bet that ALL companies have a limit that would fall into the success of delivering Paul his snakes.
As far as the argument of these companies not shipping snakes, we all know we have used them at least once in our endevours in the reptile world..........so that is not an excuse to me. The snake could make it overnight with UPS, so call for a pick up Whitefeather.
 
What would you do if you were in his situation?
Click to expand...

I would go and pick up the animals plain and simple. If I needed to take off of work I would take off of work, but I would get my snakes.

This recommendation is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Apparently it worked for Bob

Why would any reasonable person chose this approach?
Click to expand...

From what has been posted here it appears that this is how Bob and Michael partially worked things out. Face to face in person. Things are much easier that way.
 
From what has been posted here it appears that this is how Bob and Michael partially worked things out. Face to face in person. Things are much easier that way.
Click to expand...

First... a disclaimer... I'm still pretty neutral on the whole issue, I see mistakes made by both sides and continued mistakes being made as well but with Michael's drop-off in posting, the issue has been pretty one sided and for this specific issue, I'm making every attempt to keep an open mind, although both sides have not conducted themselves ina professional manner, not even close... The approach both parties have taken is negative and not conducive to finding any sort of mutually satisfactory conclusion...

But... When reading the post that originally suggested seeing Whitefeather face to face rather than "hiding behind a keyboard" it read very much with a hint of implicit threat... One of those "Oh yeah?! Why don't you come say that to my face?!" phrases... May not have been how you meant it, but it's how it read (for me and possibly others) when originally posted... Taken with that emotional context, it's a really bad idea. Taken as a simple, "Communication would be easier if they were top speak in person." would be a whole separate matter though...

Just to clarify something for myself, since the other situation on the thread was questionably resolved... The $2000 is the full price for the animals, correct? I mean... it's not just a partial deposit, the balance to be paid after delivery? I ask because the other situation was a deposit, deposits are non-refundable unless otherwise stated when a buyer backs out... Michael really wasn't obligated legally to return the $750 unless he was unable to provide the animals...

And there was seemingly some debate about the timeline in question, that I asked about on page one, but never really got set forth as an agreed upon, concrete timeline...

If it's not too much trouble, could Paul or Michael (or someone reliable to speak for either if posting is a problem) fill in these events in order?

1) What DATE was initial contact for the sale?

2) What DATE was a finalization of the agreement?

3) What DATE was money sent, in what denomination and through what means?

4) What DATE was the shipping of the one animal which has been sent?

5) What DATE was the scheduled delivery of the other two snakes supposed to occur on?

6) What DATE was contact made requesting a refund?

The rest of the timeline is pretty well presented on this thread... I understand that Michael has had many problems with many people, most of whom have declined to post personally, and thus... their cases really have no bearing on the situation, if it were that unsatisfactory, then they are aware of the potential to post and are each individually aware of any resolution that they have worked out... Other people recounting conversations with no details aren't really worthwhile or acceptable evidence (not for convincing many people) it just ends up looking childish...

Essentially... was the refund requested before the transaction was supposed to have been completed, thus violating the agreement from the buyer's end... or was it requested after the intended transaction completion date, thus violating the agreement from the seller's end?
 
paul neal

well mike it seems you are not going to refund my money.You said you would but as everybody can see your not.It looks like the the only way i'm to get the animals is by driving to wis.Here's a ? for everyone "would you do buss. with a man[whitefeather] that gives you one choice."His one choice is "come pick the snakes up or you are ####ed out of 2000$$$$$.Your a great buss. man mike.I guess when i come up there i'd better be ready for anything.Every other snake deal i ever did was better then this one.I know of no breeders who give you one choice.You should have told me this before we did buss.You never said one time that the only way i could get them is to come and get them.I was all ways told that you would ship them to me.Remember telling me this "when the girls go to the bathroom i'll ship them out"or this one "i'm building crats to ship them in".Mike your full of b.s. and sorry i ever messed with you.:)
 
paul neal

yall want to here something funny mike just email me this "piss off" o your such a buss. man.lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
 
paul neal

if any of yall dont believe me.Email me and i will forward the email to see for yourself
 
Seamus,

Just a few facts that are jumbled throughout this 290+ post topic.

5.) The final transaction was suppose to be said and done by the end of the first week of June.


6.) The first contact was on Bob Clarks forum on 5/29/03


Just two of the facts that have been said on here, that I knew of
 
Yes Paul it is. But you backed out more then a week ago. Im not here to argue anymore, I was stating a couple facts that Seamus asked to be posted. Why dont you fill in the others so they are all here.
 
Just ship the snakes...

I'm not real sure if this will please all the parties concerned, but here goes. If you can't get the money out of the guy, why not just have him ship you the snakes. I know it's a tricky thing to do, but here goes: Go to fish store. Buy a large fish shipping box for about $10 at the most. Call Airborne express. Have them pick up the box. Send it freight collect. Snakes are delivered the next day, hopefully everyone is happy. I know this is a stretch for sure, but seems pretty simple to me. Oh, by the way, just in case it is not a given, make sure that you put the snakes in the box before you ship them, pack them nice and tidy, and make sure the box is taped shut. Mr. Whitefeather indian wanna be man, just do this, or send the lad his money. I know Seamus wants details, but let's cut to the chase here shall we? I want hellbenders too Seamus.
Thanks, Ken Foose
 
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