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Mack snows.....

Gregg M

Gregg M

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How many think this morph will make a drastic drop within the next year or two???? I personally feel that Alex did a great job by carefully choosing the proper breeders to work with them so the market will stay strong for a long long time...... Apparently some feel there is no future in this morph..... I think if any other breeder had started this project, this might be the case...... Careful selection of breeders/buyers, not flooding the market, and seemingly endless possiblities, will ensure its value.......

I will admit that I was skeptical at first, but when Alex and some of the people working with them laid it all out and explained the deal, I was sold.....

It is funny how the people that knock Alex for what he is doing, are the people who were not selected to buy any, or they just cant put enough money together to get any...... I guess alot of people want something for next to nothing......

Anyway, this is just what I have been thinking about being there were a few people bashing Alex and his ethics...... All breeders should have his ethics....
 
i think alex did well but i think they will drop drastically in the next year or two.("normal hets" and even "normal supers")... well i am actually certain. now the future like crossing into other lines... ct, tangs, albinos, blizz, patts and other stuff will most liekly keep the prices on those types a bit higher for a bit longer
 
I agree greg, alot of his investors are probably worried about po-boy killing their market value soon. You know he will be the first to bring on lower prices. After wondering why none of the "big guys" are spending their money on his stock, itll happen. His stock in my eyes, will never carry the same value over the rest of everyone stock.

I guess the moral majoritly of people here, feel that once sale is refused to the customer (When we CHOOSE to use that right to sell) That they can get a 3rd party involved and that should make it OK in everyone else's eyes.

Robin (link) Told him no geckos and he complained. Alex told him no and poe basically said a big FU to alex and still got what he wanted. Now is this the actions of a normal adult or that of a grubby "gimme gimme" kid?

Everyone wants to questions alex's ethics, when everyone should be questioning poe's. With the breeding of leo's once the moment they hit the desired weight, when they are technically to young still. To the immediate pairing of a $1000+ gecko, without quaratining at all. I know everyone wanted to get a jump on this season, but i know the rest of you did not do remotely what dan has done though.
 
So, if this post is going to turn into something about Dan, why not take it over to Hell where it belongs? If it's just a discussion about a morph or a leopard gecko, keep it here.
 
My thoughts

I think all the buyers from Alex will agree with the terms Alex laid out but whats there to say about the folks which purchase straight from John Mack before Alex was even selling? I know at the very least Steve @ geckosect.com did this but I have personally spoken to him and I don't think he is a problem and he IMO will keep the prices nice and high with everyone else. There's also the ones which will this year will buy from the new breeders which purchased those few from Alex last year, will they in 06 agree to the sales price? I think will will see a drop in 06, but what is my opinion worth? nothing really.................
Thanks
Xavier
 
will they in 06 agree to the sales price?
Click to expand...

Do you realize this is organized price fixing? In the US this is illegal. It also goes against the basics of a capitalist economic system (used to be the backbone to American dreams) allowing for free competition.

Personally, I sell our off spring for the highest dollar amount that I feel the market can bear. And while I find people that sell below market value ignorant and frustrating (though there are situations where I can see it, ie divorce, financial hardships and your trying to make ends meet etc) I have more of an issue with those that try to "set" market values artificially.
 
Please don't my word from it

dwedeking said:
Do you realize this is organized price fixing? In the US this is illegal. It also goes against the basics of a capitalist economic system (used to be the backbone to American dreams) allowing for free competition.

Personally, I sell our off spring for the highest dollar amount that I feel the market can bear. And while I find people that sell below market value ignorant and frustrating (though there are situations where I can see it, ie divorce, financial hardships and your trying to make ends meet etc) I have more of an issue with those that try to "set" market values artificially.
Click to expand...
Those are just my words as to how I understand Alex's plan, I have never spoken to him about mack snows and not a buyer of one....
My own point was and I'm sorry if I worded it incorrectly but I was meaning will the buyers within 05 (mainly the ones not buying from Alex) will they sell at the same price as Alex and other would like to see?
Xavier
 
It was not my intention to make this about Dan P...... So lets try to keep this on topic...... PLEASE..... Do we have to bring all of that stuff up any time the Macks are brought up???? This thread is about the morph its self and my personal feelings about what is going to happen...... I feel that the super snow version will hold its value for a long time as well just because of what can be done with them..... I do not think there will be a drastic decrease either as time goes on...... If everyone working with them does the right thing, it should be a slow decrease...... I know for a fact this will not turn into a Blazing Blizzard thing just because of the parties involved......

Just look at spider balls for a second....... Easy to produce...... You breed a spider to a normal and you get half a clutch of spiders....... They are still fetching very high prices...... I do feel that bp morph prices are way high, but, you gotta love how the people working with them are helping to keep the value up on them.....
 
I think when folks try to undercut the other breeders is when drastic drops start to happen...... As long as all involved keep the prices up there should be no big drop in a short period of time.......
 
dwedeking said:
I have more of an issue with those that try to "set" market values artificially.
Click to expand...

When you have a brand new product you can set the market price at whatever you like...... If people buy it, that means it is worth it.......
 
The prices are going to drop. They always do. Particularly with doms and co-doms. I am not too sure it will take a major drop in the next year, but most certainly in the next 3. Sooner if there is not a demand for them.

Personally the Snow has always been my favorite Leo morph. I fell in love with them the first time I seen Cody and Albeys breeders. So the Mack is really great news for me. No more spending 2 to 3 hundered bucks for snows that may not stay A grade.

The Super Macks are not investments to me. They are not for breeding projects. They are my personal eye candy. Later this summer I plan to get a 1.1 pair of Supers from Alex. I will breed them and I will sell a few to recoupe my money. But the rest are all mine!!! I have an extra Boaphile 322D sitting around just waiting for a small colony of these beautiful little creatures. Got the perfect spot picked out in my den already.
 
Gregg,

I understand and 110% support someone setting the price to whatever they decide is the price they want to charge, even if it's way over market value.

My issue is with a group of people sitting down and stating "Product A will be $X from anyone in this group". If all the gas stations in your city did this you'd be screaming bloody murder.
 
I think the snows are georgeous leos and that Alex has done a great job trying to get a foundation built up for them. I don't see it as price fixing, its just the way things are.

Ron Tremper gets more for a giant albino than others do

You pay more for Old Navy than for Wrangler, its the name of the "maker/supplier etc" more than anything

I think that Alex chose the breeders who could sell them at good prices so they woud get their investment back not so it would be a fixed price.

Ive worked with Alex for a long time now and have even talked to him on the phone and threw email and IM, he is just one the nicest most stand up guys I know. He has helped me with any problems Ive ever had even when it was not something I bought from him, he still helped me with anythign and everything I threw at him.

Its the buyers that set the prices IMHO, if no buyer is willing to pay $1000 for something then it cannot sell for that, if buyers are willing to pay $1000 then it will.
 
Sorry about going OT Earlier.....


While I know where daniel is coming from, I do not think that that what is going on here is against a capitalist america But would you sell to someone that will immediatly undercut you intentionally, the moment it produces offspring?

Look at the albino's and patternless albino's every body and their dog has one and their price fell fast. If alex did not care about this project i would forsee snows being at the same price at patternless, albino's and patternless albino's in just 2 years. Granted it will still face the same fate eventually, just not as quickly.

Also with alex's screening process, it was making sure the snow project had a good start. Instead of someone pairing it up with just a $25 mate and then turn around and command high value or bargain basement value.
 
dwedeking said:
Do you realize this is organized price fixing? In the US this is illegal. It also goes against the basics of a capitalist economic system (used to be the backbone to American dreams) allowing for free competition.

Personally, I sell our off spring for the highest dollar amount that I feel the market can bear. And while I find people that sell below market value ignorant and frustrating (though there are situations where I can see it, ie divorce, financial hardships and your trying to make ends meet etc) I have more of an issue with those that try to "set" market values artificially.
Click to expand...
the artificially "set" market values will only last while people are willing to pay the 1000+ that the snows are currently worth. When the market has several mack snows/super snows up for sale and almost none are selling for the former 1000+, prices will drop drastically. I predict prices will start to drop as soon as this year...but not significantly until 2006. Just my opinion:)
 
But would you sell to someone that will immediatly undercut you intentionally, the moment it produces offspring?
Click to expand...

No I wouldn't. That's not the issue. It's when you have more than one person agreeing on a set price for an item. If I was doing a new product that could be reproduced outside of my control I would be very careful that I sold to people I felt understood how to run a business, which means looking out for the return on investment. But I could not by law make them agree to a set price as part of the sales agreement.

I have no problem with protecting your investment, but there are proper ways of doing it.

Also in reviewing the leo market the it seems to me that the market falls fast on a large percentage of the morphs created out there. My personal and business take is that the leo market out there is not one to invest in "high end" morphs. I know there are many that are succesfull in the leo market from a business standpoint (KelliH and Steve @ Geckos Etc are two that come to mind right away) but I think for most "players" in the market mass production is a more astute business plan.
 
dwedeking said:
No I wouldn't. That's not the issue. It's when you have more than one person agreeing on a set price for an item. If I was doing a new product that could be reproduced outside of my control I would be very careful that I sold to people I felt understood how to run a business, which means looking out for the return on investment. But I could not by law make them agree to a set price as part of the sales agreement.

I have no problem with protecting your investment, but there are proper ways of doing it.

Also in reviewing the leo market the it seems to me that the market falls fast on a large percentage of the morphs created out there. My personal and business take is that the leo market out there is not one to invest in "high end" morphs. I know there are many that are succesfull in the leo market from a business standpoint (KelliH and Steve @ Geckos Etc are two that come to mind right away) but I think for most "players" in the market mass production is a more astute business plan.
Click to expand...


Good post!!
 
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