Madd reptiles inquiry

[Peruvianfanatic]

I think it is Tim's responsibility to know the policies of HIS carriers.Tim needs to take responsibility for this one!
Mike wampole
(Boafanatic .com)

 

[BriarpatchHerps]

I've had one shipping mishap over the years, the weather wasn't bad enough to prevent shipping but was bad enough to warrant heat packs and a well insulated box. There was a temperature problem during shipping that caused the loss of one animal and almost the second, it was my decision to ship in those conditions and how to pack the animals so I felt completely responsible for the animals demise and replaced it no questions asked.

Everytime I ship an animal I'm gambling that all will go well and it will arrive safely, the worse the weather conditions are is just that much more the odds are stacked against me...checking, double checking and triple checking to make sure conditions are favorable protects my animal and also prevents me from having to replace something lost in transit. That's my practice, everyone else's may be different.

 

[cobra6]

response

Well, here I go again, to everyone who seems so interested in this, first of all, it has now been OVER 48 HOURS AND I STILL HAVE NO PROOF FROM LISA THAT THE TORTOISE IS EVEN DEAD! Those of you who are actually familiar w/ other dealers in this business know that for any type of refund there must be proof that the animal is actually dead! (usually within 24hours of arrival)
secondly..again I'm tired of repeating myself....I DID OFFER TO REPLACE THE TORTOISE....thirdly, to Jason...I've never been to a show in Cal. or Europe...do have many satisfied customers in both places though. And lastly...not that it is ANYONE'S business on this public forum..but the european gentleman that is waiting for a response from me has not recieved one due to his involvement in another matter with USFWS and I have been advised by them not to contact/have further business w/him..AGAIN..NOT THAT IT'S ANYONE'S BUSINESS ON A PUBLIC FORUM! I'm not trying to fuel a witchhunt hear but sometimes I see that people on this forum do jump to conclusions about matters that they are both underinformed or misinformed on and quite frankly have no business in.
Tim Colston
MADDREPTILES
[email protected]

 

[cthulhu77]

Tim, I am certainly not trying to be insulting in any manner at all, but why isn't this the place to ask why the bills haven't been paid? If fish and wildlife is telling you not to "do any more" business with him, what about the past due amount? I am sure there is a valid reason for this, but I don't think that hiding it is satisfactory...
As far as the tortoise goes, you seemed to have erred on the shipping, but the offer to make good on the replacement is up to the client...they may just want a refund, although I agree that the 24 hour deal has expired.
Hope this all works out well...bummer about the dead animal, though.
greg

 

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

I am not interested in a mudd slinging contest but it is everyone's business to be aware of someone who is not willing to take responsability for a bad decision. First of all, I have explained that I do not have a digital camera but my son took pictures the evening of it's arrival.I am waiting for him to download and email them to me, he was out of town all last week and is overloaded, however, I will get them tonight. No one in their right mind would go through all of this for a "free" tortoise and I resent the implications. The pictures should have a date on them. A $175.00 trade is not a fair offer since I paid more than that and I would really prefer not to purchase another animal from Tim. This has been an absolute nightmare. As far as offering to replace the animal, he offered a replacement hatchling in the Spring if his eggs hatch. The most important thing here is that the animal is dead because someone did not use good judgement. I explained why I wanted the animal and it had nothing to do with Christmas, I trusted his judgement in the shipping. My mistake. I will prove the animal is dead and I doubt I will ever see my money or another tortoise BUT I want to make sure this doesn't happen to another animal.

 

[cobra6]

greg

greg, I'm not trying to "hide" anything, but I am not at liberty to discuss the details of an open investigation and that should be good enough for everyone here, esp since NONE OF YOU have anything to do with it. I'm not trying to get nasty but if "I'm not at liberty to discuss" isn't a good enough reason
than I don't know what is and I wish people would stop hounding me about it.
Tim Colston
MADDREPTILES
[email protected]

 

[petrospider]

I haven't done business with him, but I have heard some negative feedback about the condition of his animals on his tables. I'm curious about both of these complaints. They seem very serious. 1 in ca and 1 in europe. Both are big time. I am wondering if these were the same snakes that he advertised ""captive bred in europe."?

Jason Shephard

Yes, that`s snakes he offered with this note.

CB babie sof Naja pallida, Crotalus vegrandis, Naja annulifera annulifera (Snouted Cobra) and 2 males of Bitis arietans, small form from South Africa!

Peter

 

[thecobrakid]

Interesting to know, Peter. Curious about Tim's statements. I'm curious, is there any truth to his claims about wildlife officials investigating you?

Naja pallida
Naja annulifera
Crotalus vegrandis
Bitis arietans

These aren't listed CITES stuff. What's the conflict over regarding this?

JS

 

[ms_terese]

No one in their right mind would go through all of this for a "free" tortoise

I don't doubt that you're being completely honest, but please know that people have done exactly that. I once had someone tell me an animal I had sent had died, and the next day he had it listed for sale on another website. Sellers have to have proof.

It's also possible that the carrier did not explain that they could not guarantee overnight delivery during the holidays. If he paid for overnight, he should have expected it to be delivered overnight. If he has an approved account with the shipper, and it took them 5 days to deliver an overnight package that was listed as "live animal", he should file a claim with them. Most sellers will not take responsibility for shipper error.

Finally, did you verify the terms before the purchase? Is a refund an option, or is it listed as "replacement"? If the terms were not verified prior to the sale, is there anything in the package (like an invoice or receipt) that spells out what the guarantees are?

While this deal sucks all the way around, I can't see why anyone would intentionally send one of their animals to the grave.

 

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

Here is a picture of the dead tortoise for anyone who questioned my honesty. Also, the date is on the picture so we know he arrived dead.

 

[cthulhu77]

dead tortoise

"caveat emptor" I would guess...that is really too bad. I am sure, Tim, that the animal was not sent out in order for it to die...as stated before, this just sucks all the way around.
greg

 

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

This is in response to Ms Terese. I specifically asked him if he quaranteed live delivery and he said yes, period. No mention of 'mishaps" he wouldn't cover.
While I understand some people will do anything for money, you have no idea what I have been through with this. Isn't HIS behavior that of one who will do anything for money ? I have offered Tim the option of a replacement animal or a refund and I will repeat this one more time. I do not expect my money or another tortoise at this point. It's just not worth all this garbage BUT I do think other people should be aware of his ethics since he is continuing to sell animals.
One more fact. No where on the box is "Live Animal" stated. Perhaps if it had been someone would have made an effort to help the tortoise. I have pictures to prove that.
I am done with this whole thing. Nothing is worth what this has turned into.

 

[cobra6]

replacement

Just to clear this up... from the begining I said I would replace the tortoise and still plan to. I really do not understand why my ethics are in question when I never refused to replace it. Also, Lisa called me on my business line to purchase the tort which was not posted in the add, therefore she must have gone to the link for my website to get the number, here is the link www.maddreptiles.com if she had also read my terms page(which I suggest anyone do with any dealer), she would have seen the stipulations for my live arrival guarentees.
Tim Colston
MADDREPTILES
[email protected]

 

[ms_terese]

Here is a picture of the dead tortoise for anyone who questioned my honesty.

Please don't take the request for proof so personally. If you bought a tire from WalMart and it shredded on the way home, they'd replace it, but you'd have to show them the shredded tire first. It's business.

I specifically asked him if he quaranteed live delivery and he said yes, period.

Then you should absolutely be given a refund. I can't imagine that he WON'T file a claim with the shipper in order to at least mitigate the damages, but that's his responsibility, not yours.

No where on the box is "Live Animal" stated.

That's not ok. You are correct, if the shippers are aware that live animals are the cargo, they normally do everything in their power to make sure the animal gets where it's supposed to be.

This has all happened pretty quickly. Tim, now that you have proof of the DOA, are you going to refund her money?

One more question, just out of curiosity....what carrier was used, and did the package indicate that it was shipped Next Day Delivery?

 

[ms_terese]

Tim, it seems we were posting at the same time.

Are you willing to refund the purchase price instead of replacing the animal? If your replacement option is a hatchling in the spring (if I recall correctly, that's what was mentioned), that's really not a fair deal.

When you were asked about the live arrival guarantee, did you say "Yes", or did you say "Yes, with exceptions. Please go to my Terms page"? It may sound like I'm being petty, but I think it's relevant.

Do you have recourse with the shipping company?

Finally, why didn't you mark the box as containing a live animal???

 

[cobra6]

The box was not marked "live" but was marked next day and "do not leave in cold" "do not leave outside" which is usually sufficient. I informed lisa when she bought the animal it was the last star that size I had..as for replacement I told her I would try to find one, but if one's not found I had eggs incubating and would def have more in spring, also..as stated on my terms page(and this is pretty standard for all dealers) I do not issue cash refunds on carrier delays.. and as stated UPS will not refund me since they are now telling me they do not uphold their guarentees during the chrismas holiday. I also gave lisa a partial cash value credit w/me to be used however she wished if she did not want to wait for me to come up w/another star!Really people! all of this was offered to her the first time she contacted me! over 48hours b/f I even got proof that the tort was dead! This is must more than most commercial dealers do! I have had animals die before(being shipped to me) because of carrier delays and I DID READ THE TERMS OF THE DEALER I ORDERED FROM and I knew that they did not issue refunds due to carrier delays...I called and asked what they could do and they said NOTHING..and you know what...I DEALT WITH IT. I did not start a mudslinging contest. I am not mentioning their name just b/c I'm not in the business of badmouthing people but they are a well known wholesaler and have been around for years.
Also many dealers will not honor a guarentee unless proof of death is provided WITHIN 24 HOURS OF ARRIVAL. Lisa went way beyond that.
It is time for purchasers to start taking a little responsibility as well.
I have stated my case several times now...and as I said before this is the first instance I've ever used this forum and as far as I'm concerned I've done the right thing. I really don't have anything else to say about it.
Tim Colston
MADDREPTILES
[email protected]

 

[DThomas]

I hope this doesn't get removed since I'm using my fiance's account.

You need to register and post from your own account. Any further posts from this account by you will result in those posts being deleted and the account suspended and fined.

 

[petrospider]

Interesting to know, Peter. Curious about Tim's statements. I'm curious, is there any truth to his claims about wildlife officials investigating you?

Naja pallida
Naja annulifera
Crotalus vegrandis
Bitis arietans

These aren't listed CITES stuff. What's the conflict over regarding this?

JS

Investigated me? For what? That I sent all snakes as was aggried, or that I didn`t get balance of the payment from Tim? It`s just Tim`s "way" how to turn bad light on me....
I neved did anything what I could be investigated for, and Tim knows that pretty well....

 

[thecobrakid]

Peter, I'm not implying you did anything wrong. I'm just seeking further clarification. Can you explain his comments at all re: USFW? You seem to be a "straight shooter". Please address this.

Tim, these aren't personal attacks against you. I'm intrigued by your responses, so far. I think a complete refund for the tortoise is in order. You have an unsatisfied herper that didn't get what she paid for. As a dealer, just make it up to her. It's a fudged up issue, if these events between you and her really happened the way both parties claim........it would behoove you to just take the loss and replace the animal. These are special circumstances, which obviously warrant special consideration.

I know you haven't been in ca or europe. The claims I've heard about your animals are heresay, but then again they are my sources.

It's not for me to appreciate, but I do NOT believe USFW would tell you "do not talk to anybody" re: Peter, as this is really something they don't seem to care about (talking to people). The animals listed that you bought from Peter ARE NOT awarded CITES status. Unless, Peter packed them inappropriately, or didn't identify them, then on what grounds does USFW have to tell you, "Don't talk to anyone". Or is it something else? It's a free country. Is USFW pursuing Criminal Litigation?, or are you pursuing Civil Litigation against this individual? Is there some potential unknown conflict that's not being addressed regarding this shipment? I do not appreciate not paying somebody with the info offered thus far. I fail to see the need to not "talk about it". Offer your evidence, or pay this man. There are many others before you who have discussed the culpability of known individuals while criminal litigation was underway. Please discuss.

Jason Shephard

 

[oldherper]

The box was not marked "live" but was marked next day and "do not leave in cold" "do not leave outside" which is usually sufficient.

Actually Tim, this is not sufficient. It is a violation of the Lacey Act. Any shipment of live animals MUST be labeled as such. I just recently found this out. Previously I thought the Lacey Act only covered shipping of protected species. Not true..it covers any interstate shipping of live animals. Here's another little-known fact. A USDA APHIS form 7001 Veterinary Health Certificate (United States Interstate and International Certificate of Health Examination for Small Animals) is required by Federal Law to accompany any interstate shipment of live small animals (7 USC 2143: 9 CFR Subchapter A, Part 2). This form should be available from any veterinarian. The normal charge around here for the exam and the form is about $20.00 US.

I do not issue cash refunds on carrier delays.. and as stated UPS will not refund me since they are now telling me they do not uphold their guarentees during the chrismas holiday.

Lisa's agreement was not with UPS. It was with you. She paid you some amount of money in exchange for which, you were to have a live tortoise delivered to her. YOU entered into the agreement with UPS.

Really people! all of this was offered to her the first time she contacted me! over 48hours b/f I even got proof that the tort was dead! This is must more than most commercial dealers do!

Not that I'm aware of. Most commercial dealers would do at least that much.

I have had animals die before(being shipped to me) because of carrier delays and I DID READ THE TERMS OF THE DEALER I ORDERED FROM and I knew that they did not issue refunds due to carrier delays...I called and asked what they could do and they said NOTHING..and you know what...I DEALT WITH IT. I did not start a mudslinging contest. I am not mentioning their name just b/c I'm not in the business of badmouthing people but they are a well known wholesaler and have been around for years.

I haven't seen any mudslinging or badmouthing in this thread. So far, what I've seen is people stating facts as they know them offering opinions and asking questions. That's what this forum does. I'm not sure why you seem so defensive about this.

Also many dealers will not honor a guarentee unless proof of death is provided WITHIN 24 HOURS OF ARRIVAL. Lisa went way beyond that.

I've never seen this stipulation. It hardly seems fair to me. That seems to be simply a way of stacking the deck against the customer and I'll be willing to bet that it would never hold ground in civil court. Please provide names of dealers that require proof of death within 24 hours. I'll make sure I never do business with them. Requiring notification within 48 hours is not unreasonable, assuming that the selling party can be contacted within that period of time...I've had trouble contacting people for a week or more. People get busy, Holidays come up, people go on vacation, sometimes they just ignore you...sometimes they CAN'T be contacted. It takes more than 48 hours to deliver a certified letter.

It is time for purchasers to start taking a little responsibility as well.

The responsibility of the purchaser is to pay the seller and make every effort to take delivery. The responsibility of the seller is to make certain the animal is shipped under conditions that are appropriate and conducive to the best possible chance of safe arrival, and to ship animals that are in good enough condition to withstand the stress of shipment.

I have stated my case several times now...and as I said before this is the first instance I've ever used this forum and as far as I'm concerned I've done the right thing. I really don't have anything else to say about it.
Tim Colston
MADDREPTILES
[email protected]

That is your right, for sure. But, be aware that the things that occur on this forum can (and will) have an effect on your business. Whether it's a positive or negative effect is determined entirely on how YOU handle the situation.

I'm not trying to anger you and I'm not taking a stance against you. I'm simply trying to clarify a couple of points. You seem like a pretty decent guy overall and I'd hate to see you end up with unecessary problems over misunderstandings.

With the information I have at my disposal, provided by both you and Lisa, I would say that you owe her a refund. I think Judge Wapner would see things that way too.