Madd reptiles inquiry

[lucycricket]

Dead Tortoise

Once again, to set the record straight. Tim told me the animal he had was a sibling of the pictured animal and looked eaxctly the same and that he had got the clutch from a friend and that he had held this animal back, it was one of his "persnal" ones and that he had it foe awhile and it was doing well. I never would have bought it otherwise. I am not an unexperienced tortoise keeper but I have worked in the pet industry for years and try to be careful as I know what people will do for money. I am not calling anyone names, simply stating facts. Eat my words ? I don't think so. I spent the entire Christmas weekend tryibg to track that tortoise down and when it arrived, it was still limber, I spent an hour trying to revive it. That was heartbreaking to know it held on for that long. Nothing is going to fix all of this. I am in the process of buying breeding stock, Burmese, Sri Lanken and Indian Stars. I know how I won't run my business.

 

[oldherper]

I can't comment at all on the other deal with the European seller. I don't think there is enough information available to us to make any sort of judgment calls on that one, it is sort of one's word against the other's right now.

What proof do you need? Copy of invoice? Copy of AWB? Copy of Western Union receipt by which I got prepayment? Copy of custom papers which shows that shipment was leggally declared?
As I said, I have everything available. I didn`t decide one day that I will try to get some money from Tim...you can be sure.

Peter

Peter,
No one is saying that you are trying to get money from Tim that is not owed to you. There is no doubt there was a transaction between the two of you and that transaction is not yet complete. There is no doubt that Tim took delivery of the animals and that you have not been completely paid out yet.

What is open to question is the legality of the trade. Apparently it is suspect because the USFWS is involved in it. If the trade was in violation of any CITES, USDA, Customs, or ESA regulations, then it could very well be true that Tim is under an advisement not to proceed with the deal or an order not to discuss it.

And, if you want to get down to brass tacks, under U.S. civil law, if a contract is in violation of any laws or if it requires any of the parties to that contact to violate any laws then the contract is void and cannot be enforced.

You can post whatever evidence you have regarding the deal and prove your side of it, but we apparently still can't see Tim's side of it. The only thing we have to go on is what he tells us. So far there hasn't been any evidence presented on either side. You say one thing and Tim says something else. It's possible that you are absolutely in the right and Tim is in the wrong. It's also possible that you are both in the wrong. We just don't know.

I'm not saying it's right that you didn't get your money, I'm just saying that there's apparently not much to be done about it at this time. If it was, in fact, an illegal trade/shipment, then there will be more to come, trust me. All it takes is one missing document. The animals may be legal in both countries, but if ALL necessary documents and permits are not in place, then it is an illegal shipment. If that's the case, then you will probably never see your money, but Tim will lose the animals because they will be confiscated. If it was a legal deal and the documents are in place, then the USFWS will make that determination and free the deal up. Then you will have a chance of getting your money, or at least we'll be able to see both sides of the issue completely and make a fair call.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Peter,
No one is saying that you are trying to get money from Tim that is not owed to you. There is no doubt there was a transaction between the two of you and that transaction is not yet complete. There is no doubt that Tim took delivery of the animals and that you have not been completely paid out yet.

What is open to question is the legality of the trade. Apparently it is suspect because the USFWS is involved in it. If the trade was in violation of any CITES, USDA, Customs, or ESA regulations, then it could very well be true that Tim is under an advisement not to proceed with the deal or an order not to discuss it.

And, if you want to get down to brass tacks, under U.S. civil law, if a contract is in violation of any laws or if it requires any of the parties to that contact to violate any laws then the contract is void and cannot be enforced.

You can post whatever evidence you have regarding the deal and prove your side of it, but we apparently still can't see Tim's side of it. The only thing we have to go on is what he tells us. So far there hasn't been any evidence presented on either side. You say one thing and Tim says something else. It's possible that you are absolutely in the right and Tim is in the wrong. It's also possible that you are both in the wrong. We just don't know.

I'm not saying it's right that you didn't get your money, I'm just saying that there's apparently not much to be done about it at this time. If it was, in fact, an illegal trade/shipment, then there will be more to come, trust me. All it takes is one missing document. The animals may be legal in both countries, but if ALL necessary documents and permits are not in place, then it is an illegal shipment. If that's the case, then you will probably never see your money, but Tim will lose the animals because they will be confiscated. If it was a legal deal and the documents are in place, then the USFWS will make that determination and free the deal up. Then you will have a chance of getting your money, or at least we'll be able to see both sides of the issue completely and make a fair call.

Old Herper
I think it was clear from Tim’s Statement.

Quote from TIM:

“but the european gentleman that is waiting for a response from me has not received one due to his involvement in another matter with USFWS and I have been advised by them not to contact/have further business w/him”

The transaction was not the one Peter is asking payment for. Tim only says “Another Matter”

The transaction may not even include Tim.

That’s how I read the statement from Tim.

Do you read it the same way?

Dennis Hultman

 

[oldherper]

Old Herper
I think it was clear from Tim’s Statement.

Quote from TIM:

“but the european gentleman that is waiting for a response from me has not received one due to his involvement in another matter with USFWS and I have been advised by them not to contact/have further business w/him”

The transaction was not the one Peter is asking payment for. Tim only says “Another Matter”

The transaction may not even include Tim.

That’s how I read the statement from Tim.

Do you read it the same way?

Dennis Hultman

Yes. I suppose I missed that little piece.

I'm not sure what to think about it. It doesn't make sense that the USFWS would come to Tim and ask him to default a legal agreement over another matter that didn't involve Tim.

What's confusing here also is that Peter said earlier that the ONLY shipment of animals he's made to the U.S. is the one to Tim.

This definitely needs further clarification.

 

[thecobrakid]

For Katya

Katya,

The comments and questions were directed to Peter, not you. You have already indicated you do not intend to elaborate. Fine.

I think you guys have screwed up royally w/ this tortoise and I think it is 100% your fault. I mean, come on! You knowingly sent a tortoise while conditions were less than ideal, and the one who really lost was the tort. Very, very, very irresponsible on your part. I also think that you guys have terrible customer service. I think you should reimburse her entirely CASH+SHIPPING right away.

I also think that Peter is owed the money from the prior transaction. Can't say for sure, cuz he hasn't displayed proof yet. If you do not wish to comment on this matter. Ok. Fine. Don't comment. But I am curious about these events, and I fully intend on investigating the matter because I want to know. Don't like it? Tough titty.

Welp, I am off to tend to my elaborate harem.

So Be It,

The Honorable (Herper Elect) Jason Shephard

PS I strongly suspect this case will make it to my docket.

 

[reptilebreeder]

Yes. I suppose I missed that little piece.

I'm not sure what to think about it. It doesn't make sense that the USFWS would come to Tim and ask him to default a legal agreement over another matter that didn't involve Tim.

What's confusing here also is that Peter said earlier that the ONLY shipment of animals he's made to the U.S. is the one to Tim.

This definitely needs further clarification.

I agree, sounds like an excuse to get out of making a payment. Assuming that it is another matter, as madd reptiles has stated themselves, then for the USFWS to tell them not to make a payment on an otherwise legal transaction, would seem to be ludicrous. Say you owned a pet store and they were investigating you because you sold an Indigo snake, and the paper work was out of order, they wouldn't tell the other customers who bought a Kingsnake, not to pay for it.
As for the Tort. it's been 17 pages, but am I remembering correctly that it was sent on the 23rd? Just my opinion, I think for anybody to send any live animal by any means, except maybe Delta Dash, is a stupid thing to do. All the carriers (UPS, Fedex, etc.) are swamped beyond imagination for at least a week if not two or more, let alone two days before Christmas, plus many times they use temporary workers, it just adds up to a disaster in the making. Especially when you take in to account the temps at this time.

 

[petrospider]

I still don`t understand what could be illegall in my deal with Tim. I will scan AWB for the beginning later today, and try to put over here. This will show at least thefact, that shipment was sent out from me to Tim...
When I was preparing the shipment, I had to contact local "Control Authorities", which take responsibility for controling every shipment with animals coming in or out of our country. I had to bring the shipment to the custom first, open it and show all snakes for control. Just when they said it`s ok, the custom made clearance and I got "green light" for exporting....
None of the animals included in the shipment is under CITES, all were health, strong, and in perfect condition. Tim was satisfied - happy with them. He offered themf or sale over US market, and as it looks, sold them out. So he got money for them, from which the part had to be send to me as balance of the payment. I think that`s normal. He imported them to make some profit on them, and that`s ok. Nobody is working for free. I think he kept some animals for his collection, as they were really nice. Especially Naja pallida babies were amazing. So, I can`t imagine, how can be animals confiscated, if they are sold to several people maybe all over USA?
Sure, I know there is possibility I will not get my money. I am waiting for them 10 months already, and as all of you can imagine, I stoped to think I will get them. But I also think, that it`s not correct what Tim did, and therefore I decided to write a note over here about it. I sent him many e-mails, tried to call him several time, but with no response. He answered me approx. 5 months after he ot animals from me, that his website crashed, and that he wasn`t able to get in touch with me. Next he told me he planned to get in touch to me again, and that I will get money..... but....only words again (

 

[petrospider]

Ok, here is copy of AWB for the shipment from me to Tim. I sent it to New York, where his boker picked up the shipment and took care for delivery over US....

Peter

PS: Btw, all the best in New Year 2005...

 

[oldherper]

Well, Peter...it certainly looks like something's fishy on this side of the pond. Tim is offering no supporting evidence to his story. It would seem like he could at least photocopy the alleged order he signed that prohibits him from talking about this case.

That's another thing...it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever that 1.) They would contact Tim about a case in which he had NO involvement and tell him not to honor the contract in THIS deal, especially since this deal was apparently legal and above-board, and 2) that they would prohibit him from discussing THIS deal if they were investigating another matter. Something's wrong.

He indicated that the USFWS contacted him regarding another matter in which you were involved, but apparently he wasn't (not likely). You claim that the only shipment you've sent to the U.S. is this one to Tim.

It's beginning to sound like this is a case of stalling and ignoring you and making excuses until you just go away. After all, you are in Europe and he is in the U.S. which makes it very difficult to collect from someone who decides not to pay you.

It certainly looks like you've been taken, Peter....at least from my vantage point.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Peter,

Did you ship too anyone else?

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Peter,

Did you ship to anyone else?

 

[petrospider]

Peter,

Did you ship too anyone else?

No, I sent snakes only to Tim...

 

[TomO]

Tim
Regarding the transaction in which the USFWS is involved: Was it a transaction between you and Peter, or Peter and someone else?

Tom Odendaal

 

[Dennis Hultman]

Tim
Regarding the transaction in which the USFWS is involved: Was it a transaction between you and Peter, or Peter and someone else?

Tom Odendaal

Tim has stated he will not respond to anymore questions because he cannot.

Peter states he has not sent animals to anyone else.

Peter have you had previous shipments to Tim?
Peter was this your first shipment EVER to the U.S.A.?

 

[TomO]

Just trying to get past the inuendos instead of restating them.

 

[Ophidiophile]

Maddreptiles = BADDreptiles

Purchased 1.1 neonate South African mole snakes from Tim Colston/Maddreptiles on 8/30. They were said to be healthy and feeding readily on pinkies. The first problem was when I received this email:
---------------------------------------
From: Tim Colston [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:20 PM
To: Tracer David
Subject: RE: 1.1 Pseudaspis cana

Sorry, just got in, been running all day
here it is 1Z6175X40140066400 UPS raised its rates and it was going to be $70 for the 10:30 delivery so I went w/guarenteed by noon pls give me a call on my cell as soon as you get them.
thanks
Tim MADDREPTILES
www.maddreptiles.com
---------------------------------------
The animals arrived the next day (WED) alive so the change of service may not have mattered, but I think it shows the seller's priorities. The cost unexpectedly cut into his profit margin so he unilaterally changed the service.

Anyway, the animals arrived and though the male was fat, the female was emaciated -- her spine was protruding and she had lateral folds of skin down near her tail. It lo0oked to me like she had never fed. I should ad that I've kept moles on and off for the last 8 years or so and have worked with babies before. They tend to be very fat when born and can be tough to start on rodents. I bought these specifically because they were guaranteed feeders and I wouldn't have to mess with getting them feeding.

Anyway, I decided since Tim said they were feeding readily, to take them home, give them a day to settle in and try to feed the next day (THURS). I tried them on tiny newborn pinks the next day - nothing. The following day (FRI) I tried brained thawed pinks - nothing. So I sent Tim this email on Friday:

-----Original Message-----
From: Tracer David
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:57 PM
To: Tim Colston
Subject: RE: 1.1 Pseudaspis cana

Tim,

I am a little concerned that these guys don't seem at all interested in pinkies (tiny newborn, live). The male seems fat and fine but I am more concerned about the female whose spine is showing prominently (she arrived that way). She sure looks to me like she's never fed or it's been a very long time since she has. I've worked with 2 pairs of babies before and this female doesn't look healthy to me. If she doesn't feed voluntarily in the next day or two, I doubt she'd survive more than a week without being pinkie pumped.

Just keeping you informed.

-David
------------------------------------------------

Well she was dead the next day - Saturday. Tim by the way, didn't answer the email above nor a subsequent one in which I informed him that the female had died and sent 3 photos including one close up showing the protruding spine and folds of skin at the tail. By the way, to date, the male has not fed either.

I finally made an offer to Tim for compensation that I thought was very fair but gave him an opportunity to counter. Here it is:
-------------------------
From: Tracer David
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 12:17 PM
To: Tim Colston
Subject: RE: 1.1 Pseudaspis cana

Tim,

I'd like to see some response to my emails. I know it's Labor Day Weekend and thought you might be away but I see you posted a bunch of animals on Kingsnake today so you're obviously around.

Here's a proposal on my part. I would like to return the male to you for a refund of his price ($300). He is in identical condition to when I received him. I am willing to pay shipping. I would like to split the cost of the female with you ($150) and I'll eat the $40 shipping I paid the first time around. If you want the female back, she's in my freezer and I'm happy to include her as well.

I hope you understand my dissatisfaction. I paid for animals that were healthy, FEEDING, and properly sexed. I asked this on the phone. These animals are obviously not feeding voluntarily on pinkies and the female was on death's door as shown by her protruding spine and folds of skin at her sides near her tail.

If you agree to this I am still out $150 for the female plus $40 for shipping the first time plus at least another $40 for the return shipping. And I'll have no snakes to show for it. I think this is fair. I'm sure you'll let me know if you feel differently.

I look forward to hearing from you and hope we can solve this quickly and amicably.

-David
-------------------------------------

Here's Tim's response:

David,
Sorry I didn't get back to your email yet. I wasn't avoiding you I just haven't had time to respond to my emails since I got back. I have some problems with what you propose yes. You had my cell # and never called to say you weren't happy with the snakes, in fact you did call when you rec'd them and said you were happy, you did NOT mention you thought either looked bad. I did send you healthy snakes and they did eat pinks readily for me. Sometimes snakes do take a few days to settle b/f they will eat after shipping so that may be your prob. The female pic you sent just shows me a dead snake. Not the reason she died. She could have died from dehydration for all I know. I assumed you knew how to properly care for the spp since we talked on the phone. I assume if you thought that she looked dehydrated on arrival you would have soaked her. Frankly, you had my cell # and could have called if you had a problem w/in the 24 hrs of arrival as stated in my terms. I do have live a! rrival guarentee as I stated on the phone. You called me and let me know they arrived and you seemed happy with the purchase. I am sorry but I do not see how a refund is warrented in this case. I know you are not asking for a full refund but being outside the limits of my terms no refund will be issued. I hope you can see it from my standpoint as a business. I am willing to work with you though since you obviously don't want to be stuck with a lone male. I can provide your email address if you wish to the other individuals that contacted me about purchasing the snakes(one did want just a lone male) so you can see about selling the male to them. Or I am as I told you going to get more, my breeder told me he could send about 10 more before the end of the year. If you'd like to wait I will give you a female from that shipment at my cost.

----------------------------------------

I'm not happy with this response since:
1) I would never re-sell a non-feeding male to someone!
2) Why the heck would I send more money to buy yet another snake from Tim when I think he's dishonest and unscrupulous to begin with!

Anyway, sorry for the long post. I've been in the reptile biz for a LONG time and have never had to make a post like this before. Overall, I am probably just out of luck on this transaction but I did want to alert future buyers to the fact that Tim will do and say anything to make a sale but does not back up the animals he sells. As the subject line says Maddreptiles = Bad reptiles and in my opinion Tim Colston is a dishonest and unscrupulous seller.

 

[Wilomn]

mike, I think you sold David a snake that you KNEW was in bad shape.

David, if he does not refund you IN FULL for the female, and he REALLY should take the male back as well, I'd start a BAD GUY thread on him here.

Ya messed up mikey, make it right.